Current resto situation

[Deleted]

OYA! buff priests by the way, they seem to be in a worse situation than us atm =/

Preists are in a very good place right now. Disc bring brilliant buffs and great tank healing, while holy are good raid healers.

The situation with Restoration shamans right now is how you make it. I will never beat the resto druid in my guild in raid healing, mabye once or twice on twins but thats about it. But on the other hand im nearly always top 3 on the meters (personally having little care of what the meters show anyways).

Right now we are very good tank healers and great raid healers. We bring the 10% reduced physical damage buff, while also bringing totems and other buffs like heroism. The only problem is we have no niche. We can do all the jobs just someone can do them better. Like preists at the end of TBC.
But to be honest im not complaining, unless your in the top end guilds, like ensidia, you will likely not notice. We still heal a great amount and bring viablity to the raid. The fact that we can easily switch from tank to raid healing makes us very useful to have in a raid.
Its been posted in this thread before, but a great responce to meks blog from vixsin: http://lifeingroup5.com/?p=58

[Grunthunter]

To the OP, please learn to play your class and experiment outside the cookie cutter way of specing and gearing.
I have a resto shammy as my main and I can tell you that no1 in my guild outheals me. We are starting progress through 25 togc and I top the charts. But hey guess what, I don't stack haste like just about every guide/forum/angry nerd rage kid that his veiw is the only true way to do anything says to do. I stack int, yes int, and sp/crit ( mainly cause I get enough haste from gear) so raid buffed I'm sitting at 32.8k mana. But hey I can now use healing wave instead of lesser and WOW my healing is much higher, also after riptide or chain heals they pop off at a 1.3 second cast. So right there I'm on charts. You say we don't have anything special: mana spring> wisdom, my earth sheild crits for 9k so there's your sheild, 10% phys dmg reduc, healing stream which you should learn to use cause if u got another mana stream or imp wis which is only 9 less mp5 than resto mana spring accounts for 3-16% on fights depending how much aoe dmg the raid takes. There are so many mechanics that makes use usfull you have no idea. L2 experiment you could fond something better than the 1 way ppl say to use. If you can't out heal some1 it's 1 of2 reasons, #1 They have better gear or #2 your not using your class to it's full potential

[Iniquity]

What a lot of people are forgetting is that resto shamans bring a "Unique" buff that only 1 other class can provide, wich is 10% reduced physical damage taken. Only priests and shamans can provide this buff. Chainheal spamming the current tank on gormok alone should justify a raid spot in totgc since YARLY the huge amounts of bursts + the damage over time is mitigated by this.
10-11k LHW crits on shielded targets isn't out of the way either - I don't always top the meters, i get stomped by paladins with 40k mana HL spamming 2 tanks, I get stomped by resto druids wearing 4pcs tier 9 and keeping rejuv on the entire raid, but I make sure that my heals land on the right spot and that the group recieves full benefit from every buff that I can provide.

If meters = raid spot
Find a better raid

OYA! buff priests by the way, they seem to be in a worse situation than us atm =/

Well you are true in most of what you say, except for the last part. Priests have been and still are in a GREAT place.

But if you are a good resto shaman, you should be getting a raidspot.

[Iniquity]

To the OP, please learn to play your class and experiment outside the cookie cutter way of specing and gearing.
I have a resto shammy as my main and I can tell you that no1 in my guild outheals me. We are starting progress through 25 togc and I top the charts. But hey guess what, I don't stack haste like just about every guide/forum/angry nerd rage kid that his veiw is the only true way to do anything says to do. I stack int, yes int, and sp/crit ( mainly cause I get enough haste from gear) so raid buffed I'm sitting at 32.8k mana. But hey I can now use healing wave instead of lesser and WOW my healing is much higher, also after riptide or chain heals they pop off at a 1.3 second cast. So right there I'm on charts. You say we don't have anything special: mana spring> wisdom, my earth sheild crits for 9k so there's your sheild, 10% phys dmg reduc, healing stream which you should learn to use cause if u got another mana stream or imp wis which is only 9 less mp5 than resto mana spring accounts for 3-16% on fights depending how much aoe dmg the raid takes. There are so many mechanics that makes use usfull you have no idea. L2 experiment you could fond something better than the 1 way ppl say to use. If you can't out heal some1 it's 1 of2 reasons, #1 They have better gear or #2 your not using your class to it's full potential

But then you aren't playing resto shamans to their true potential.

If you really don't know why haste is so much better than int, then you deserve failing like you will later on.
Ofcourse most things works to some level, however there is always a better way.

If you wanna do a paladins job that's fine, but don't try to justify it as being better than a paladin who knows what hes doing.
It's not about "nerdraging kid and only his way" it's about alot of testing and knowing the shaman mechanics that should tell you haste is better if you use the class right.

[evan_s]

Overall I think Resto shaman are fine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Mek's theoretical numbers for HPS or what ever he is running are accurate but I don't think it really matters. For one thing theoretical HPS numbers are only that, theoretical simulated numbers and don't necessarily translate into differences in actual situations in the game. Also I think the differences are small enough that in almost all situations you aren't going to fail at something just because you have a resto shaman healer instead of a different healer assuming all else is equivalent. Blizzard has said they want different classes to be roughly equivalent but that can't and doesn't mean they will be the exact same dps, hps or what ever other criteria you want to look at. The classes are going to be different and will perform differently in different roles and with different fight mechanics. If they didn't there wouldn't be any point in having 3 different classes that were all identical.

I think that this is much like the tank debate that is getting a lot blue replies. People are claiming x is better than y based on some theoretical number but blizzard is stating they aren't seeing that reflected in what is actually occurring in game.

I'd much rather be where we are now, viable in multiple roles in a raid, than completely OP chain casting one spell like in sunwell.

[Azyoulike]

Also I think the differences are small enough that in almost all situations you aren't going to fail at something just because you have a resto shaman healer instead of a different healer assuming all else is equivalent.

I'd say that's true - sort of, but also false. Back in 3.1 I was running Ulduar-10 hard modes on my disc priest with a pally co-healer. The pally of course had a vastly higher theoretical HPS than me, even including shields - but our effective healing was about the same on most fights. I was probably a little ahead in fact because I knew the content better than him.

Then we hit Thorim, and he had horrible problems - kept dying in blizzards etc, and shortly after his death we'd wipe because spam as I might there was nothing I could do to keep tanks alive in the face of unbalancing strike - nevermind heal the raid at the same time.

After 5 or 6 attempts suddenly the pally got the hang of the encounter, and wouldn't you know it - that was the time that I got an unlucky CL and died. He proceeded to heal the encounter solo for the final 30-40 seconds.

My point here is that all that theoretical HPS is entirely useless, until you are overstressed, then suddenly it's incredibly useful. Shammies can do great EHPS, but when a healer suddenly croaks they can't really up their game to cover for him, this makes them somewhat less useful than other healers who can.

[veroz]

To the OP, please learn to play your class and experiment outside the cookie cutter way of specing and gearing.
I have a resto shammy as my main and I can tell you that no1 in my guild outheals me. We are starting progress through 25 togc and I top the charts. But hey guess what, I don't stack haste like just about every guide/forum/angry nerd rage kid that his veiw is the only true way to do anything says to do. I stack int, yes int, and sp/crit ( mainly cause I get enough haste from gear) so raid buffed I'm sitting at 32.8k mana. But hey I can now use healing wave instead of lesser and WOW my healing is much higher, also after riptide or chain heals they pop off at a 1.3 second cast. So right there I'm on charts. You say we don't have anything special: mana spring> wisdom, my earth sheild crits for 9k so there's your sheild, 10% phys dmg reduc, healing stream which you should learn to use cause if u got another mana stream or imp wis which is only 9 less mp5 than resto mana spring accounts for 3-16% on fights depending how much aoe dmg the raid takes. There are so many mechanics that makes use usfull you have no idea. L2 experiment you could fond something better than the 1 way ppl say to use. If you can't out heal some1 it's 1 of2 reasons, #1 They have better gear or #2 your not using your class to it's full potential

I have 3k less mana without gemming for int period(no int trinkets either). Also I call shenanigans on your so called 9k ES crits. You must have what...5k SP?

[Nørf]

This is a fun neverending discussion but ill still put my point.

The ones who say shamans are fine, sure you are right.
Are we the first, second or third picked healers? No, we are not.
The ones of you who are, either have raidleaders with no clue, or you are insanely spoiled.

Blablabla, i outheal this and do like this, im resto shammy with different gems cause im a retard etc, you people are so full of yourself you cant even handle the whine and moan.
If you dont have any constructive to contribute with in this post, get out of it.
Let us who have more than half a brain handle the whining instead, thank you.

Not being able to play your class proper = whine?
Bullshit.
You are absolutely wrong, again, dont post if you have nothing constructive to say.

We have no survability besides our 10 stats on chest and boots enchant, sad but very true.
People spec away from resto due to the fact they are not wanted, as op mentioned actually ( yes the facts are right infront of you ).

This discussion has been taken on every single forum and the outcome is the same, a big discussion leading no where causing frustration so lets just leave it at this, shall we?

[Hoofz]

I dont know what's wrong with you people. Maybe you just suck at healing. I'm in one of the top raiding guilds on my server and I'm always topping the charts on every fight (healing, hps). The holy pallies and resto druids come close to me but there is no question about the utility of a resto shaman in any raid. You probably need to research it a little on the "rotation of spells" glyphs and best stats. I, sometimes, raid with other resto shamans and I do twice as much heals.

I could add also that the resto shamans are currently in their best situation since mana is no longer a critical issue.

I have to give the obligatory "it's possble your other healers are just not that great"

[Kinettik]

No offense, but those of you that are E-peen stroking saying "No one ever out heals me!!", its not cause your good, its cause they suck. Period, end of discussion.

@Grunthunter. Ummmm, NO??? Im glad that you think you know better then the Theory Crafters, and the top echelon players but Int stacking means your either completely dense or ignorant, either way your fail. Unless you havent noticed, Mana isnt really an issue these days and inflating your Mana pool (by very little it seems anyways) and uping your crit (which is the WORST stat avail) instead of opt'ing for faster cast times is absurd. I sit at 30k mana (buffed) with 1100 haste UNBUFFED and believe me its the only thing that helps us not overheal by being late to the heal against instants/hots.

Look, Shamans are in that in between state of being great or being useless and for the most part its ok. Im not gonna lose my raid spot to another class just cause they have X and Y while i have nothing to offer. If you can play your class effectively, then u get to raid, if you cant then dont blame Mek for his post or Blizz for not making us OP once again. We do have a unique ability to be well versed in multiple aspects yet masters of none but the bottom line is, if your assignments dont die and you can progress in content then your good. Its not about topping meters (Though the new wave of players like to think so) its about playing the game the best you can and contributing to 24 other people to achieve a common goal.

Lear your stuff, read the forums and get better at what you do and posts like Mek's wont matter to the majority of raiding guilds that arent starstruk cause of "Ensidia said so........."

edit: I would like Resto to have some sort of "Save" abilty like Sac or GS (Not those themselfs but you get my point) to help balance us out a little and make us more wanted.

[Nørf]

@ Kinettik

That was the best read ive had on this forum for a good long time, thank you.

[Kinettik]

I try. ;D

[Deleted]

No offense, but those of you that are E-peen stroking saying "No one ever out heals me!!", its not cause your good, its cause they suck. Period, end of discussion.

@Grunthunter. Ummmm, NO??? Im glad that you think you know better then the Theory Crafters, and the top echelon players but Int stacking means your either completely dense or ignorant, either way your fail. Unless you havent noticed, Mana isnt really an issue these days and inflating your Mana pool (by very little it seems anyways) and uping your crit (which is the WORST stat avail) instead of opt'ing for faster cast times is absurd. I sit at 30k mana (buffed) with 1100 haste UNBUFFED and believe me its the only thing that helps us not overheal by being late to the heal against instants/hots.

Look, Shamans are in that in between state of being great or being useless and for the most part its ok. Im not gonna lose my raid spot to another class just cause they have X and Y while i have nothing to offer. If you can play your class effectively, then u get to raid, if you cant then dont blame Mek for his post or Blizz for not making us OP once again. We do have a unique ability to be well versed in multiple aspects yet masters of none but the bottom line is, if your assignments dont die and you can progress in content then your good. Its not about topping meters (Though the new wave of players like to think so) its about playing the game the best you can and contributing to 24 other people to achieve a common goal.

Lear your stuff, read the forums and get better at what you do and posts like Mek's wont matter to the majority of raiding guilds that arent starstruk cause of "Ensidia said so........."

edit: I would like Resto to have some sort of "Save" abilty like Sac or GS (Not those themselfs but you get my point) to help balance us out a little and make us more wanted.

Bingo, exactly what i was trying to say.

[Grunthunter]

LOL I love all the butt hurt kids that can't read my post correctly.
#1: I nvr said the way I gear/heal was the best way ( for me and what my guild needs, it is the best, for ME.
#2: I said experiment, the ppl that said I would fail later on, if my guild is progressing through togc25 and not downed anub cause of dps fail how could I fail. It's playing spasific. Your basicley saying for dk's to go blood for dps cause that's the best and only dps spec when there are other viable ways of doing things( different class but same general point). And if I'm topin charts in all raids that I do how would I be failing.
#3: And to the post that said 9k critz unreal, no it's not it's called raid composition, certain tanks receive more healing and other healers have certain buffs to increase healing and both of those are by increase of %, so yes it's wrong for me to say I hit 9k es all the time but it does hit frequently.
And to the kid that has.a 30k mana pool unbuffed1.1k haste, con fucking gratz, u got btr gear than mine and would outheal me. It still doesn't make your dick bigger. Learn to ignore people that you think are stubborn or ignorant.

[Nørf]

And to the kid that has.a 30k mana pool unbuffed1.1k haste, con fucking gratz, u got btr gear than mine and would outheal me. It still doesn't make your dick bigger. Learn to ignore people that you think are stubborn or ignorant.

Youre the kid here, the way you type hurts my eyes .

Oh and, i feel sorry for your guild :<

Ps. My eyes does really bleed.

[Kinettik]

LOL I love all the butt hurt kids that can't read my post correctly.
#1: I nvr said the way I gear/heal was the best way ( for me and what my guild needs, it is the best, for ME.
#2: I said experiment, the ppl that said I would fail later on, if my guild is progressing through togc25 and not downed anub cause of dps fail how could I fail. It's playing spasific. Your basicley saying for dk's to go blood for dps cause that's the best and only dps spec when there are other viable ways of doing things( different class but same general point). And if I'm topin charts in all raids that I do how would I be failing.
#3: And to the post that said 9k critz unreal, no it's not it's called raid composition, certain tanks receive more healing and other healers have certain buffs to increase healing and both of those are by increase of %, so yes it's wrong for me to say I hit 9k es all the time but it does hit frequently.
And to the kid that has.a 30k mana pool unbuffed1.1k haste, con fucking gratz, u got btr gear than mine and would outheal me. It still doesn't make your dick bigger. Learn to ignore people that you think are stubborn or ignorant.

And were back again with your ignorant statements and incoherant babble. Look, first of all you came here to try and flex your Epeen dowgrading someone else and saying how great you are, your not, and your posts prove it. Now when people come back at you with reason and logic you turn it around again and start trying to downgrade them as well. Lets take your points one by one and show the world, again, how you are bad.

Point 1: If you gemming incorrectly, and yes its incorrect, is better for your guild and your generous mana pool (LOL) is the reason you top meters then YOUR GUILD IS BAD. If you honestly think that you would be less effective with the proper gems and better stats from it then i have to say you honestly do not know your class.

Point 2: So now your blaming your guilds DPS on not progressing?? So your proving point 1 for me, thanks. But i digress, experimenting with specs/gems/rotations or w/e isnt really a smart thing to do in PROGRESSION raiding. Theres a reason people do all the testing and theory crafting and spreadsheets and so on and so forth so that people can already know what is "Best". I do agree however that there isn't only 1 spec to play for DPS classes, HOWEVER you are not one of those classes. There is but 1 way to spec for a Resto shaman, and granted you could choose to gem differently but i guarantee you that your effectiveness will be less than optimal.

Also, and this is hilarious, your claiming that your OPTIMAL raid composition (who arent progressing by your own admission) is vastly superior to allow you such extreme crits on ES? I feel like your caught in this string of failure in your posts and are reaching for things out of the air to pull into this conversation to try to make yourself seem inteligent while providing us with more info to prove you wrong. Just stop, please, for your own good.

And see how easy it is to get your point across with out vulgarity and downgrading ??

edit: Dont call me kid, im not one. But thatnks for asking :P

[FamilyGoat]

edit: I would like Resto to have some sort of "Save" abilty like Sac or GS (Not those themselfs but you get my point) to help balance us out a little and make us more wanted.

I would also like some form of "save", druids should get one too. Even if they are worse then priest/paly "saves", I'd take it. Unless blizzard thinks our "save" is reincarnation, and druids "save" is rebirth..

[Deleted]

To the OP, please learn to play your class and experiment outside the cookie cutter way of specing and gearing.
I have a resto shammy as my main and I can tell you that no1 in my guild outheals me. We are starting progress through 25 togc and I top the charts. But hey guess what, I don't stack haste like just about every guide/forum/angry nerd rage kid that his veiw is the only true way to do anything says to do. I stack int, yes int, and sp/crit ( mainly cause I get enough haste from gear) so raid buffed I'm sitting at 32.8k mana. But hey I can now use healing wave instead of lesser and WOW my healing is much higher, also after riptide or chain heals they pop off at a 1.3 second cast. So right there I'm on charts. You say we don't have anything special: mana spring> wisdom, my earth sheild crits for 9k so there's your sheild, 10% phys dmg reduc, healing stream which you should learn to use cause if u got another mana stream or imp wis which is only 9 less mp5 than resto mana spring accounts for 3-16% on fights depending how much aoe dmg the raid takes. There are so many mechanics that makes use usfull you have no idea. L2 experiment you could fond something better than the 1 way ppl say to use. If you can't out heal some1 it's 1 of2 reasons, #1 They have better gear or #2 your not using your class to it's full potential

You made me lmoa man, i can belive what you say there, trying contact Mek maybe he has a spot for you in ensidia and show them how its done.

I probably can say that i top metters also when i go in pugs with some priests that dont know what poh is or some druid that spaming lifeblooms.

And if you are so great please link some wws to see your awesomeness.

[BadBadBad]

I dont look at charts, and i think i slack heals cuz i dont have enough haste(500 and engineering glove), and all the time i was the only resto shamy in raid and all the drops are mp5 crit, and the haste crit drops goes to the ele boyz, and i see my ulduar gear has much moar haste, but i still take the item, and end up loosing haste wich is bad, but i think all this mp5 crit trieing to tell me that fuck haste go mp5 crit :S
i just rerolled pvp much better than the pve these days.

[Kinettik]

I dont look at charts, and i think i slack heals cuz i dont have enough haste(500 and engineering glove), and all the time i was the only resto shamy in raid and all the drops are mp5 crit, and the haste crit drops goes to the ele boyz, and i see my ulduar gear has much moar haste, but i still take the item, and end up loosing haste wich is bad, but i think all this mp5 crit trieing to tell me that fuck haste go mp5 crit :S
i just rerolled pvp much better than the pve these days.

Let the Pallies have the Crit/Mp5 gear (yes mail) they eat it up. There are a few cloth and leather items as well that are better for you with the stats u need, dont be afraid to take em. Mp5 sucks, since mana isnt an issue although people ase speculating it may be a more viable stat in ICC but we will see so dont be too discouraged by the unfortunate luck youve had gearing. ICC, and i dont doubt Boub, if it drops Tues/Wed has alot of more favorable gear thats easier to obtain to replace some of those unwanted pieces as well.