1. #1

    Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Due to Ghostcrawlers recent subtley blue post is there a possibility of a Subtley comeback in cataclysm?
    Personally subtley is my favorite rogue spec but since it sucks now that HAT has been nerfed TO HELL its just awfull
    /discuss

  2. #2

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Comeback may be inappropriate. It was popular before WoTLK for pvp, and had a FoTM for a bit in WoTLk. I don't ever see it being viable in pve, and it is viable, although not as popular as 41-5-25 or 43-3-25, or other slight variants of mut.

  3. #3

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Its not really viable man, hemo damage just isnt what it has to be for it to be usable in pvp or pve, same with backstab im afraid, they just cant keep up the pressure in pvp and are more of a raid damage augment in PvE HAT spec.
    Character from a book btw :P not a skit on the horrible life changing ailment.

  4. #4

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    to me it seems they are trying to have it comeback in pve while not buffing pvp to me ???

  5. #5

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    If they make all the trees into plain utility, you could have a pve tree, solo tree, and pvp tree.

  6. #6

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    It's like he mentions, it's difficult to get all three talent trees close together in terms of matching dps. The subtely tree doesn't really have much "umph". HaT was somewhat of a novelty, but was fun for the short time it lasted.

  7. #7

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfade
    It's like he mentions, it's difficult to get all three talent trees close together in terms of matching dps. The subtely tree doesn't really have much "umph". HaT was somewhat of a novelty, but was fun for the short time it lasted.
    I don't really consider smashing one button "fun".
    Not that the other specs are "that" much more detailed, but still a whole lot more interesting than smashing eviscerate every two seconds.

  8. #8

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by bbr
    I don't really consider smashing one button "fun".
    Not that the other specs are "that" much more detailed, but still a whole lot more interesting than smashing eviscerate every two seconds.
    I think it was quite amusing. Still, yes, ridiculously simple. Still combat isn't exactly difficult to play.

  9. #9

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowstool
    Due to Ghostcrawlers recent subtley blue post is there a possibility of a Subtley comeback in cataclysm?
    Personally subtley is my favorite rogue spec but since it sucks now that HAT has been nerfed TO HELL its just awfull
    /discuss
    First off, it is spelled subtlety, but that's beside the point. Based on GC's post I would say yes, they will try to make it a more interesting and viable tree. It remains to be seen whether it will be PvE or PvP oriented or both. Personally I hope for a return to the good old shadowstep days because it was a fun spec to play.

  10. #10

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Every time a Rouge uses Shadow-step/Ambush, a Kitten gets a kandy-Bar. DON"T QUESTION IT.

    =^.^=

    And yes, i am hoping for a revival of Sub in Cata as far as pvp is concerned.

  11. #11

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowfade
    Still combat isn't exactly difficult to play.
    Neither is mutilate.


    Uther- Our bads are better than your bads.

  12. #12

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javanface
    First off, it is spelled subtlety, but that's beside the point. Based on GC's post I would say yes, they will try to make it a more interesting and viable tree. It remains to be seen whether it will be PvE or PvP oriented or both. Personally I hope for a return to the good old shadowstep days because it was a fun spec to play.
    I just want to say what's so great about Subtlety back then? It was viable and one of the best specs, but it just wasn't as fun as Mutilate is imo. Faster finishers, more energy/damage, better burst. Hemo was fun back in the day cause it's all we had. But I wouldn't give Mutilate up for anything imo. I just don't understand why everyone loved Subtlety other than "it being good". Shadowstep was fun, but times have changed and it's not nearly as good as it once was. Shadowstep and Hemo was pretty much all that Rogues lost from Subtlety spec. Oh ya and we never ever ever have to use Shiv <3

    But more back ontopic, even if Subtlety becomes good again, it'll most likely be the sacrifice of Mutilate. I personally don't want that, but we can't expect Blizzard to have 2/3 viable trees in WoW - that's unheard of!

  13. #13

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneDude
    I just want to say what's so great about Subtlety back then? It was viable and one of the best specs, but it just wasn't as fun as Mutilate is imo. Faster finishers, more energy/damage, better burst. Hemo was fun back in the day cause it's all we had. But I wouldn't give Mutilate up for anything imo. I just don't understand why everyone loved Subtlety other than "it being good". Shadowstep was fun, but times have changed and it's not nearly as good as it once was. Shadowstep and Hemo was pretty much all that Rogues lost from Subtlety spec. Oh ya and we never ever ever have to use Shiv <3

    But more back ontopic, even if Subtlety becomes good again, it'll most likely be the sacrifice of Mutilate. I personally don't want that, but we can't expect Blizzard to have 2/3 viable trees in WoW - that's unheard of!
    I'll admit I didn't play much arena back then, and I really only dabble with it nowadays. It's a bit of shadowstep nostalgia I suppose; an ability that allowed for fast and uninterrupted movement to your target of choice was almost too good in BG's and the odd farm raid I couldn't be bothered to respec for (remember respeccing every time you wanted to pvp in between raids?). I miss the fun that came with that particular ability, not necessarily the entire spec.

  14. #14
    Deleted

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    I would love if that would happen, i think i read it too, but i dont really think sub will be back in raids again, it only will happen if sub get an uber skill.

  15. #15

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Just undo that horrible decision that made shadow step not break snares and such and I would totally start playing my rogue again. Sub was my favourite spec back in TBC.

  16. #16

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Well you could play sub with the 1400 arm pen hardcap and keep up on energy pooling. Granted its not going to be that hard to play. Basicly keeping up snd and spaming eviserate using hemo as random combo generator/slight raid dmg buff *ruptureless rotation with 1400 arm pen*. Basicly you where able to hit the 1190 cap for combat in the current patch with mace spec. In 3.3 they gear heavy onto arm pen giving us a 264 arm pen cloak with a socket from badge gear gloves/belt with over 100 arm pen from badge gear and a trinket with 155 arm pen + crazy buff from 25 man norm to replace the banner of victory most people are running around with now to hit the 1190 cap. But anyways hitting 55% increased dmg on 5 point eviserates before boss mobs go under 35% is nice then hitting 75% after that point is even better. White dmg will be huge with the 15% agi and 10% attack power at 100% arm pen. Right now from wws im doing about 45-48% white dmg and toping dmg charts with missmatched gear since i was gone for all of ulda then started playing again with rl friends joining the server. Anways its a build i will be going as offspec with a combat main spec soon in the future since combat and my sub spec will both run off of the 1400 arm pen.

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhZ0x...ddVuVco:ukdVcm

  17. #17

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mononoke
    Just undo that horrible decision that made shadow step not break snares and such and I would totally start playing my rogue again. Sub was my favourite spec back in TBC.
    It was the only GOOD spec. Except for the occasion where you'd bring a Mutilate Rogue. Though Mutilate ( with enough gear ) could raid AND PVP but it was just a serious pain, but brought great burst. If I remember correctly I believe it held some of the best burst in the game, but it did require finesse and positioning. If you look at some old MLG matches there were a few Mutilate Rogues.

  18. #18

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Seal Fate/Hemo was the best spec ever..

    I miss it.

  19. #19

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Well ive missed sub spec for a long time and i played it through bc. Currently i raid as combat and i hate not having a way back into a fight it makes me miss shadow step more then anything specialy since so many of the current fights are movement based.

  20. #20

    Re: Subtley comeback in cataclysm?

    Noone can tell how the different trees will turn out in cataclysm, could very well be that Combat will be the worst tree for PvE or whatnot. [Remember when HaT-Bug was "found"? Right before the fix, HaT was better then Mut was better then Combat, so we already had that situation once. ^^]

    Only thing that can be told is what you've read already, that Blizzard plans on buffing Sub and bringing it to the same level as Mut and Combat.

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