Boomkin Buff

[Razulath]

The crit bonus is calculated when Starfire lands not when you start casting it. So if you try to time the last cast so it lands outside the eclipse, As I got the impression poldara was doing. Then YOU WONT BENEFIT FROM THE CRIT BUFF FROM ECLIPSE.

Seems to me like poldare is eather 1. dont play a moonkin 2. plays a moonkin but got no clue about what and where 3. is a troll.

[Fonzey]

Sorry Poldara, I worded my post unnecessarily asshole-ish - but you are making a habit out of being wrong about stuff, alot - which isn't a problem if you're willing to learn from others and advance from it - but you dont' seem capable of this, at least without being an opinionated dick in the process.

I guess I'm still bitter from the way you spoke to me and conducted yourself in the DoT uptime debate - which I ended up being correct about.

Threat Meters and Arena Frames are far from cosmetic, not sure what makes you think that.

Sorry again, no hard feelings - I'll get over myself now I swear...

[Boomkindance]

hehe, dot uptime debate... i remember that... /shudder

[Pascal]

I didn't read the replies, I didn't feel like it, but how could you overlook the fact that currently, any competitive balance druid has a t8 2pc, giving their wrath eclipse a 45% damage increase and their starfire eclipse a 45% crit chance?

The change was made because without t8 2pc, balance dps goes down quite a lot. I have a "lower gearscore" than almost every balance druid on my server because I run with 2pc t8, and all of these idiots with their t9 4pc do way less DPS than me. I continuously and repeatedly outdps'd a balance druid who was probably just as good at dpsing as me in way higher ilvl gear because I have a whooping +15% to my eclipse bonuses.

Now that they buffed eclipse, I can upgrade from this crappy gear without being terrible.

It's not really a huge buff. It just means we can drop t8 2pc without seeing a massive DPS loss.

[Swagger]

As an Elemental Shaman I'm glad they are getting buffed. I bring half the caster buffs, they bring the other half.

Will be nice to have them more in demand if they can be more competitive with the other classes.

[Razulath]

I didn't read the replies, I didn't feel like it

lulwut??

[SBS]

I didn't read the replies, I didn't feel like it, but how could you overlook the fact that currently, any competitive balance druid has a t8 2pc, giving their wrath eclipse a 45% damage increase and their starfire eclipse a 45% crit chance?

The change was made because without t8 2pc, balance dps goes down quite a lot. I have a "lower gearscore" than almost every balance druid on my server because I run with 2pc t8, and all of these idiots with their t9 4pc do way less DPS than me. I continuously and repeatedly outdps'd a balance druid who was probably just as good at dpsing as me in way higher ilvl gear because I have a whooping +15% to my eclipse bonuses.

Now that they buffed eclipse, I can upgrade from this crappy gear without being terrible.

It's not really a huge buff. It just means we can drop t8 2pc without seeing a massive DPS loss.

If people with better gear than you using 4pT9 do way less DPS than you they suck and it's got nothing to do with using 2pT8 or 4pT9. The dps difference between 4pT9 and 2pT8 was around 150-200 in the gear I'm wearing from what I've seen from spreadsheets and programs like Rawr. The difference is less than if you were using wise eclipse and the other druid not.

I chose to use 4pT9 early on because it brings less spiky DPS since the T9 bonus isn't reliant on eclipse at all. I have also never been outdps'ed by any balance druid that I've played with, 2pT8 or not. Anecdotal evidence is not factual evidence and your personal experience has very limited value.

[davidwh2]

At the moment you don't take balance druids for their dps, you take them for their buffs.

They definitely are in need of a dps increase, especially with the loss/dropping of 2t8. This is to make up for that.

hard to agree with this but i do, with the t8 nerf we need the extra 10% to make up for it. i know some people that dont like the fact its done by eclipse but my eclipse constantly procs, i dont know if its just me or not.

[Sunfyre]

You're comparing a trained spell to a 3point talent which adds a large amount of dps to us. The problem with eclipse isn't even the rng its the fact that we suffer so much when it procs and we have to move. Its a talent that adds WAY to much damage. buffing the specs main problem is not the way to fix it. i think that eclipse is a cool mechanic but not one a spec should be balanced around. We need a dps increase either to base spells or other talents(and by this i mean the meh ones that are barley worth picking up) not a buff to a already bloated talent. GC said he doesn't think moonkins should be balanced around having 100% eclipse uptime yet when we don't have near 100% uptime our damage tanks so horribly its not even funny. i have high hopes that they will fix it in cataclysm, but if not i have a few other 80's that i can play just as well in end game that id be more than happy to switch too.

I like you. And agree 100%.

But I also recognize it'd be hard to revamp all of this before 4.0 as well.

[Lyren]

Would've been nicer if the buff went to Nature's Grace. 20% cast speed-> 10% cast speed + 10% damage/healing.

Of course, that might overload crit even further.

[Elysium]

I like you. And agree 100%.

But I also recognize it'd be hard to revamp all of this before 4.0 as well.

They won't. Why? 2 important points really:

1)From a "business" mentality. Blizzard is most probably VERY happy with the way Eclipse works. Just wit hthis one talent they've managed to make boomkins have their differences with other casters. I think all boomkins who are smart can safely say "My rotation doesn't look anything like a mages/warlocks/ele shammy/spriest". And what does that mean? it means it's original, different and special in it's own way. That's a hard goal to achieve when you try to balance the dps of all classes.

2)They've already said that they like the idea of "Balance" that is promoted by Eclipse. You need to balance the dps caused by starfire and the dps caused by wrath.. and that's how a balance druid maximises his dps. So this works perfectly well in the eyes of Blizzard. They've achieved a pretty good goal here.

Don't get me wrong. I dislike Eclipse too. Not only (Like revasky said) does it reduce our dps when we have to move. In fact, to avoid that dps loss in clutch moments, I have my disc priest buddy of mine, Pain suppression me. For example, yesterday on Twin Valkyr's when I got Empowered Light + Power Infusion + Lunar Eclipse proc. I was on dark essence and Lightbane started surging of light. I asked for the Pain suppression and he gave it and kept me up just so I don't lose all that dps.

So I agree that Eclipse is flawed for that reason... also because it's cause us to have a soft cap on haste because of Solar Wrath, soon to have a soft cap on crit because of Lunar Starfire. Eclipse is a mess. But Blizz loves it. They won't change it.. they'll just need to come up with a new talent that can fix it in a way.. but still promotes the idea of balancing wraths and starfires to maximise dps.

[Lyren]

So I agree that Eclipse is flawed for that reason... also because it's cause us to have a soft cap on haste because of Solar Wrath

What the hell does Eclipse have to do with the haste cap...

[Elysium]

What the hell does Eclipse have to do with the haste cap...

You're right that was a brain fart :P Just the soft crit cap

[Amalisa]

My dps is usually very low too. Its a combination of undergeared (compared to everyone else in my guild) being an owl and my crap PC.
But i find it RNG based (the game, and my pc!) Some fights I can be up there 5th to 9th and then the next week with the SAME PEOPLE on the SAME FIGHTS i may be as low as 11th.
I am hoping this buff compensates for the loss of t8 (i've already changed to four parts hence the conquest legs qq) and the additional cooldown added to it.
I think we need more then this to boost us. As a hybrid, its true we shouldn't top meters but we should at least be decent dps!

[Khad]

Our guild is working on heroic 25 Jar at this point.

As we have a broblem with filling the raid with good dps, portals are a big issue for us. We can make it but only just and just. Last night i had a streak of bad luck for 6 tries in row... Not being able to perform to the level of your gear frustrates the shit out of me.. i mean, with few cd:s popped i work on the 6k-7k dps range and now i was hardly hitting 4.5k. 6 times in a row :/

IF Blizz is going to keep eclipse as it is(as it seems), i think what we would need is some sort of long cd(think 6mins here) ability that makes it 100% sure to pop the next form of Eclipse. Would really help on those "this shit needs to get done" scenarios, also would help on heroism/blood lust where you really want to get that Lunar Eclipse asap.That simple spell would really help us get back to our feet and if everything is going fine allready, it wouldnt buff us too much. Might eaven give Eclipse a chance in PvP and help us take a standing in Arena teams aswell...

Last night left me really frustrated on Moonkinn DPS. We would have killed it if the last portal wouldnt have spawned a second ad. Again, coudnt get my eclipse to proc and we missed the portall kill by about a second. On longterm im doing fine, 5.5k-6.5k dps... on short "events" its tossing a coin.

Khad

[Deleted]

Khad this shouldn't be as severe as you are suggesting nor have I ever foudn it personally to be this severe , on short burts it's known that if we don't proc and eclipse quick enough our DPS won't be great hence why in heroics we are only doing average DPS unless we proc eclipse quickly , I can think of 2 quick solutions for you to be honest

A) Get more crit (this will lessen the RnG factor of eclipse a bit)
or
B) Make sure you have eclipse proc'd off jaraxx before swapping to the portal you know what times etc... it's going to spawn a portal just make sure eclipse is up before then !

@the page 6 comments DJE ; you've been wrong several times also , get over it . It happens , WE has been shown to be a 200-300 DPS increase not several hundred , If I choose to do something for my own reasons that's my issue I don't need to explain myself to you or anyone else.If I decide to give you a reason, accept it, you raging over something that's getting changed in a few days is pointless and a waste of EVERYONES time. I don't see where I've contradicted myself if I have... well... shit happens drop the nerd rage kid.
Also I don't see how I've made a habit of 'being wrong' I'll admit I haven't been the most versed person in WE but then... I didn't need / want to be so it didn't matter, 1 thing ? Yep... makes sense to me ...

[Khad]

Yeah, well.... solutions... not so much.

A
I have, acording to armory, 25.98% crit with out single buff. That isnt too bad imho. One can always stack more ofc, but its not like you can just pick your gear. This is me. Am not the best there is, but not too far on the wrong track either.

B
Thats the freaking point. There is no way to be sure of it. I couldnt make it proc before the portal. Just did not happen. Most of the time i was doing portal, i was without Eclipse. RNG dealt me the bad way. And it went on for a while too. Bad luck. Crit for Wrath douring that night was 48.9%, according to World of Logs. For SF: 81.8%

Insidently, there was ONE try where i had the best of luck.

Wouldnt mind a bit more of our dps to be less rgn based. And wouldnt mind if, for presicley these reasons would be able to trigger Eclipse 100% if need be

Khad

[Cearat]

Eclipse was first nerfed, then buffed.
I dont think that there's gonna be a huge DPS increase.

[Deleted]

Our guild is working on heroic 25 Jar at this point.

As we have a broblem with filling the raid with good dps, portals are a big issue for us. We can make it but only just and just. Last night i had a streak of bad luck for 6 tries in row... Not being able to perform to the level of your gear frustrates the shit out of me.. i mean, with few cd:s popped i work on the 6k-7k dps range and now i was hardly hitting 4.5k. 6 times in a row :/

IF Blizz is going to keep eclipse as it is(as it seems), i think what we would need is some sort of long cd(think 6mins here) ability that makes it 100% sure to pop the next form of Eclipse. Would really help on those "this shit needs to get done" scenarios, also would help on heroism/blood lust where you really want to get that Lunar Eclipse asap.That simple spell would really help us get back to our feet and if everything is going fine allready, it wouldnt buff us too much. Might eaven give Eclipse a chance in PvP and help us take a standing in Arena teams aswell...

Last night left me really frustrated on Moonkinn DPS. We would have killed it if the last portal wouldnt have spawned a second ad. Again, coudnt get my eclipse to proc and we missed the portall kill by about a second. On longterm im doing fine, 5.5k-6.5k dps... on short "events" its tossing a coin.

Khad

I don't experience too many problems on Jaraxxus. My biggest concern is if i proc lunar eclipse just before a portal/volcano, because that will usually cut me off on the last cast, where solar eclipse can punch the damage in faster, and get in that last cast before it dies. Portals have to be nuked down, and there isn't much time, so perhaps you could look if your other DPS are pulling their weight. Something that fixed our problems immediately (we got him second try, i believe) was to make sure that melee ran off, or at least was ready to move, when the portal came up, and that they weren't coming along several seconds after.

Most of the time when I DPS, however, eclipse has a pretty high uptime, even going from solar to lunar. I might be unlucky, but it is not a huge concern for me. I have some 3% more crit than you unbuffed, so there shouldn't be a big issue on that front.

PS. Update your trinket - Talisman of Resurgance is crap. Sundial would probably win, hands down, and anything above it i believe.