1. #1

    Legendary Theorycrafting

    As the title implies.. Any serious TC's started working on heirarchy of legendarys? I am trying to work on an expression, but I don't know how to express the comparative difference in strength (stat wise vs bonus) between ring and.. maybe legs. I mean one has more stats.. but the ring bonus is just so strong (all the math I been doing has it number 1 by a LLOONNGG shot).
    "I loved MoP but I think we overestimated how many people loved Pandaren."
    - Gregg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  2. #2
    For fire my latest sims indicate the hierarchy to be Bracers>Ring>Belt on single target and Ring>Bracers>Belt on more targets. Specific fight mechanics may give higher value to Ring due to certain burst windows.

    I'm at work right now so I don't have access to the specific numbers. (edit: I'll post numbers and APL for fact checking purposes when I get home)

    For arcane and frost I have no idea and the APL for those are also still much more work in progress than fire.

  3. #3
    Dreadlord Deithy's Avatar
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    Owwww this will be interesting! /grab popcorn and wait for constructive replays

    On topic - i do want, if i have the luck of course, to run with ring and legs as arcane mage in Nighthold. It would be super awesome in my opinion.
    But just additional question about the ring - does it mean that ff I am in a group with 3 mages and 2 shamans I can have up to 200 seconds 30% haste buff? (This sounds way way toooo op to me)
    "What if I fail?" I asked myself... "What if I succeed?" I answered myself

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Deithy View Post
    But just additional question about the ring - does it mean that ff I am in a group with 3 mages and 2 shamans I can have up to 200 seconds 30% haste buff? (This sounds way way toooo op to me)
    Nope. You still get only 1 external bloodlust, but you can use your own TW freely on yourself with the regular 5 min cd. So in practice you can get 1 bloodlust on pull by someone else, then use your own TW on yourself when other cooldowns come up again, and after that you can use your own TW again on a 5 min cd without worrying about the debuff from the first external bloodlust.

  5. #5
    I haven't had the chance to test the legendaries out on the beta, so this is all contingent on my interpretation of the mechanics being correct, but from reading the tooltip of the ring, it only affects your own temporal displacement, which means you can still only benefit from one BL/TW from another person, but you can use your own on top of that. Since our Time Warp has a 5 minute cooldown, that would mean we can use it twice (or even 3 times) if a fight is long enough. If my interpretation is correct, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up swapping legendaries depending on fight length and whether the raid needs Time Warp at a specific time in the fight. If the raid needs BL/TW at a specific time later in the fight you can't TW on pull, since you still give the raid the debuff.

    If we can TW on pull and a fight is at least 5 minutes and 40 seconds long we can get the full benefit of our Time Warp Twice (and an external BL). Basically, the ring is at its best when the raid needs BL/TW early and the fight length allows for for you to use another TW near the end of the fight. If you can TW on pull and the fight length is 5:40, the ring provides 80 seconds of 30% haste, which is a 23.5% uptime, equivalent to 30%*23.5%=7% passive haste (but better if you can line it up with CDs etc.).
    On the other hand, if the fight time were 10 minutes you would still only get 2 TWs from the ring, resulting in a measly 13.3% uptime.

    With another mage in the raid the fight will have to be a bit longer. Since TW doesn't stack, if one mage uses TW on pull, other mages will have to wait to use their TW. No difference for 3 or more mages.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Delath View Post
    Nope. You still get only 1 external bloodlust, but you can use your own TW freely on yourself with the regular 5 min cd. So in practice you can get 1 bloodlust on pull by someone else, then use your own TW on yourself when other cooldowns come up again, and after that you can use your own TW again on a 5 min cd without worrying about the debuff from the first external bloodlust.
    What if it is a fight you need to zerg the boss down when he's at 30% (soft enrage). If I use my TW on pull, will it buffs other ppl in my group and therefore putting the debuff ?

  7. #7
    The Patient Neoxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kauzz View Post
    What if it is a fight you need to zerg the boss down when he's at 30% (soft enrage). If I use my TW on pull, will it buffs other ppl in my group and therefore putting the debuff ?
    Yes.
    The ring makes it that you don't get a debuff from your own TW and you can benefit from your own TW when you have some kind of Bloodlust debuff.
    Last edited by Neoxx; 2016-08-12 at 12:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoxx View Post
    Yes.
    The ring makes it that you don't get a debuff from your own TW and you can benefit from your own TW when you have some kind of Bloodlust debuff.
    That's a pretty big downside to the ring. It would be useless on fights where BL is used at the end.

  9. #9
    So with the bracers you are going to hardcast a 5 sec Pyro ? What about the Dragons breath head ? I like the belt with the execute mechanic on scorch and can see its potiential grow as many encounters are harder to defeat the last 25 %

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bougy View Post
    That's a pretty big downside to the ring. It would be useless on fights where BL is used at the end.
    Well you can equip a different legendary for such fights.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bougy View Post
    That's a pretty big downside to the ring. It would be useless on fights where BL is used at the end.
    Most fights will be over 5 mins especially the important ones.

  12. #12
    The Patient Neoxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synadrasa View Post
    Most fights will be over 5 mins especially the important ones.
    Maybe some fights in the first 2 weeks, but not after that. Gear will outscale the content pretty hard like always.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bougy View Post
    That's a pretty big downside to the ring. It would be useless on fights where BL is used at the end.
    if anything it makes it better, being able to get double TW during a soft enrage is HUGE and far more valuable than popping it on pull especially in mythic raids unless ofc you're one of those guys that value your own dps over getting the kill in which case it doesnt matter any way.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by almara2512 View Post
    if anything it makes it better, being able to get double TW during a soft enrage is HUGE and far more valuable than popping it on pull especially in mythic raids unless ofc you're one of those guys that value your own dps over getting the kill in which case it doesnt matter any way.
    No, it makes it worthless. If BL is used at 30% on ursoc, and it dies before those 40 seconds are up or maybe 1-2 seconds later, and the ring provided exactly zero bonus except for stats.

  15. #15
    The value of certain legendaries will change through out the progression curve. Early on, mages who have the ring will benefit a lot from the ring, as fights get easier.. then sure, it becomes less legendary. But again, remember, they expect that legendaries will be used through out the Expac... thus allowing it to again benefit.

    The matter of guilds choosing their lust time will be guild specific.. we know that the world contenders all ready avoid lusting on pull when possible, where as the majority of everyday progression guilds will lust on start. So it will vary, I guess, on the mage and the mages situation. I know my guild likes to lust on pull.. so I am hoping for the ring and thus, an extended 1st lust phase, and multi lust fight during progression.
    "I loved MoP but I think we overestimated how many people loved Pandaren."
    - Gregg "Ghostcrawler" Street

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    No, it makes it worthless. If BL is used at 30% on ursoc, and it dies before those 40 seconds are up or maybe 1-2 seconds later, and the ring provided exactly zero bonus except for stats.
    in that situation, yes it will be pretty worthless but that is only if that soft enrage lasts 40 secs, if it lasts 90 secs or more then suddenly it will become extremely valuable but it is situational at best in those kind of situations with soft enrages, it comes down to how long they take but i think we can all agree that an 80 sec TW is better than a 40 sec TW.

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