1. #1

    Need help with Challenge Modes

    I recently leveled my mage to 100 and I need some help! I'm going to admit straight away that I am not experienced or confident as a mage at all. I mainly play as heals and my experience as a mage + playing them at max level content is quite limited.

    My aim is finish Gold CM's; not aiming for realm firsts or anything, just aiming to complete.

    I wouldn't come on here and ask without first doing my own research so I'll write what I know, questions I have, and areas I'm unsure about. Feel free to fill in any gaps or post any advice! I definitely need and appreciate it!

    What I know so far:

    -Stat priority:
    I have a BiS list (won't be going for it; using only as a guide) and it reccomends Multistrike>Haste>Mastery. I've been following discussions that suggest alternative stat priorities such as Multistrike>Crit>Hate.
    First question - What stat priority should I be going for?
    Second question - Why is Crit prioritized?

    -Talent choice:

    I have seen a few things but generally it looks like;
    45 - Ring of Frost
    60 - Greater Invis or Cold Snap (and why?)
    75 - Frost Bomb or Ice Nova (and why? Use for ceratain instances?)
    90 - Mirror Image vs Incanter's focus
    100 - Prismatic Crystal/Thermal Void/ Comet storm

    (Which one is the most useful overall; prob won't min/max, and will try to learn only one of the play styles and not change talents; hoping to use the same talent build throughout all unless absolutely necessary)

    The biggest thing I'll likely need is advice on playstyle;
    I've been praciticing in Heroics and reading guides on Icy-Veins + other sites but I don't think I'm translating it right. In terms of play style I'm looking for the most accessible (translated: easy to understand/play) rotation or priority list in terms of vs's groups of mobs vs's single target.

    A) What should my opener on a pack of mobs be? Water elemental freeze -> Comet Storm -> Ice Nova -> Frozen Orb -> Ice Nova -> Ice Lance Spam?
    B) What is my single target rotation to kill bosses? Comet Storm -> Frozen orb -> Ice Nova -> Ice Nova -> Frostbolt -> Ice Lance at 5 Icicles -> FFB when FoF procs?

    Because of my familiarity with WoW in general, I know that I should be o.k once I start to really pracitice the rotation. All advice is appreciated and tips especially so.

  2. #2
    If you want to just play one spec, I'd recommend RoF/Invis/Frost Bomb/IF/Comet Storm

    For gear, just get multistrike items, the difference between Crit/Haste is not going to cost you gold. If you can get your hand on a genesaur blood that'd be great, especially since it drops off of a last boss and thus you have a higher chance to get it.

    For rotations, on trash you want to put up 1 frost bomb then as many ice lances into it as possible. The more frost bombs you cast, the more casts you waste (as frost bomb by itself does nothing). This means you want to use as much FoF generation within your frost bombs (Freeze and Frozen Orb). There is also an interaction between Freeze and Comet Storm (getting AoE shatter benefit is always amazing), but it might be hard keeping the mobs frozen before comet storm. Therefore I would suggest:
    -Freeze
    -Comet Storm (cast immediately so it benefits from shatter, the game checks for the frozen condition at beginning of cast. Freeze does not invoke GCD)
    -Frost bomb
    -You now have 2 FoF from freeze, cast lances into frost bomb
    -Frozen orb
    -FoF'd lance spam
    -Glyphed CoC when out of FoF
    -Blizzard
    Your biggest source of damage on trash is Frozen Orb + lance spam. Remember that Blizzard reduces the CD on orb, so you will be casting it often. It can be worth it to cast blizzard on only two targets just to reduce the cooldown on Orb.

    For bosses, if you want a rotation it would be:
    -Comet Storm on CD
    -Get 2 FoF with Water Jet and Frost Bolt x2
    -Frost Bomb only if you have 2 FoF active or plan on getting more immediately (via Frozen Orb)
    -Frozen Orb (if off CD)
    -Ice Lance if Frost Bomb is active (never cast otherwise)
    -FFB if Proc
    -Frostbolt

    Do not worry about Icicles.

    RoF is strictly worse than Shadowfury/Binding Shot/Leg Sweep/Remorseless. It should be used as an emergency tool, not a "use on CD" ability (unless your comp is really awful and you have no AoE stun).

    Invis is useful since you can invis (with your pet, no need to dismiss) wherever your group uses invis pots and thus can use DPS pots instead.

    Good luck

  3. #3
    Firstly I'd just like to say a huge thank-you for your response. I know my initial post had lots of points but I feel like you answered them in a way that is accessible for me

    I wasn't going to aim for Genesaur blood but I'll definitely consider it now.

    So basically my main aim on trash is to ensure: Frost bomb on mob -> Freeze -> FoF ice lance -> Frozen orb -> Refresh frost bomb if needed -> FoF Ice lance spam?

    Also blizzard is viable to cast to refresh the cooldown on Frozen Orb? So if freeze is on cooldown and no FoF procs with Frozen Orb down, focus on blizzard to refreshing the cooldown on Frozen Orb to start rotation again?

    I'm feeling much less overwhelmed since I never had a proper priority in the first place; but I felt much more comfortable using Ice Nova so I'll start learning to practice with Frost Bomb from now on.

    Thanks !
    Last edited by Sumaku13; 2015-05-04 at 04:04 AM. Reason: Changes

  4. #4
    8/8G CM here; I went with a MS >= Haste > Crit > Vers >>>>>>>> Mastery* build and managed just fine (all my gear had MS+H or MS+C anyways). Trinkets used were Blackiron Crucible (Blackhand) and Quiescent Runestone (Imperator) as both are well overbudget and don't get scaled down appropriately.

    * Mastery is really bad because ~80%+ of your DPS will be on trash. Mastery only affects your FB and FFB (and also your Welly), neither of which you'll really be casting on trash packs until the very end of them.

    As for talents:
    15 - Doesn't matter (used BS)
    30 - Flameglow, as you want to maximize your time DPSing and not worrying about AT/wasting GCDs on Ice Barrier
    45 - Doesn't matter; don't think I ever used it once, though RoF can be helpful and save a tank at times (at the cost of DPS though!)
    60 - I used GI, but CS could be useful too. Removing the really nasty DoTs in those dungeons can easily save your life.
    75 - This was the only real choice. I tried both non-UM talents and for the most part, they actually seemed pretty equal. I mostly stuck with IN simply because of its ease of use and consistent, non-RNG, damage. Some times with FB, I got a TON of extra damage because of some great procs! Other times, it just didn't happen.
    90 - IF; could use RoP, but IF = less hassle.
    100 - CmS. I absolutely loathe PC (and it's less DPS overall on trash) and TV was hit-or-miss, usually miss.

    Boss rotation is pretty straightforward (if you don't know how to play Frost in non-CMs, read up on it and play the exact same way, with a bigger emphasis on not messing up fight mechanics). For trash packs (usually ~7-8 if not more mobs at a time because your tank will be pulling/chaining multiple packs), you'll want to:
    1. Keep Frozen Orb on cooldown at all times
    2a. Keep IN on cooldown at all times (you can hold one charge, just make sure at least one is ALWAYS on cooldown)
    2b. Keep FB on your primary target, unless the trash pack is about to fully die.
    3. Keep Pet Freeze on CD (as it gives 2 nice FoF procs for you to use/pop your FBomb with), but try to time it with IN casts as that will result in a big shatter/CmS or FB explosions if you picked FB instead.
    4. Comet Storm, especially if it's on as few targets as possible.
    5. Dump all your FoF procs (especially onto an FB target if you took FB)
    6. Blizzard. (Note: There are times where Blizzard is more beneficial than using your FoF procs if you have a TON of mobs [~15+] and you picked IN over FB. If you picked FB, NEVER Blizzard over using FoF procs on a FB target!)
    7. Frostbolt/FFB/IL/etc to finish off weak targets when most of the pack is already dead (make sure to Blizzard to get Frozen Orb off cooldown for the next pack though!).

    For smaller packs, just remove 6. because Blizzard isn't too effective. There will be some awesome moments where you get a ton of mobs though (the 1st boss's hallway in Bloodmaul for example) and can Blizzard+Orb for days

    Some tips/tricks/things that are noteworthy:
    - If you have ANY melee DPS in your group, always be aware of how close your tank is to the mobs prior to using Ice Nova (if you picked it), Pet Freeze, Frost Nova (if you picked FB), or your L45 talent, as freezing mobs that are in motion towards the tank may result in the melee getting bitchsmacked!
    - Pay close attention to your debuffs, as CMs drastically buff DoTs, and GIs and/or IBlocks will be needed to save the healer some mana.
    - If your group is ever having trouble interrupting spells or keeping buffs off of mobs, don't forget you can spam Poly (at a DPS loss) to keep their spellcasts at a minimum or Spellsteal some buffs off. Some places where you WILL have to Spellsteal include: Hallway to/2nd boss of UBRS (Alchemist/Kyrak's healing concoction), Trash to 1st boss of Auchindoun (Void Shells and other healing/absorption effects), Anything the Geomancers/Blood Mages in Bloodmaul put Earth Shield/Blood Rage (or w/e it's called) on. (Can't remember if there were others; it's pretty late)

    Hope this helps in any way, and best of luck to getting gold!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    8/8G CM here; I went with a MS >= Haste > Crit > Vers >>>>>>>> Mastery* build and managed just fine (all my gear had MS+H or MS+C anyways). Trinkets used were Blackiron Crucible (Blackhand) and Quiescent Runestone (Imperator) as both are well overbudget and don't get scaled down appropriately.

    * Mastery is really bad because ~80%+ of your DPS will be on trash. Mastery only affects your FB and FFB (and also your Welly), neither of which you'll really be casting on trash packs until the very end of them.

    As for talents:
    15 - Doesn't matter (used BS)
    30 - Flameglow, as you want to maximize your time DPSing and not worrying about AT/wasting GCDs on Ice Barrier
    45 - Doesn't matter; don't think I ever used it once, though RoF can be helpful and save a tank at times (at the cost of DPS though!)
    60 - I used GI, but CS could be useful too. Removing the really nasty DoTs in those dungeons can easily save your life.
    75 - This was the only real choice. I tried both non-UM talents and for the most part, they actually seemed pretty equal. I mostly stuck with IN simply because of its ease of use and consistent, non-RNG, damage. Some times with FB, I got a TON of extra damage because of some great procs! Other times, it just didn't happen.
    90 - IF; could use RoP, but IF = less hassle.
    100 - CmS. I absolutely loathe PC (and it's less DPS overall on trash) and TV was hit-or-miss, usually miss.

    Boss rotation is pretty straightforward (if you don't know how to play Frost in non-CMs, read up on it and play the exact same way, with a bigger emphasis on not messing up fight mechanics). For trash packs (usually ~7-8 if not more mobs at a time because your tank will be pulling/chaining multiple packs), you'll want to:
    1. Keep Frozen Orb on cooldown at all times
    2a. Keep IN on cooldown at all times (you can hold one charge, just make sure at least one is ALWAYS on cooldown)
    2b. Keep FB on your primary target, unless the trash pack is about to fully die.
    3. Keep Pet Freeze on CD (as it gives 2 nice FoF procs for you to use/pop your FBomb with), but try to time it with IN casts as that will result in a big shatter/CmS or FB explosions if you picked FB instead.
    4. Comet Storm, especially if it's on as few targets as possible.
    5. Dump all your FoF procs (especially onto an FB target if you took FB)
    6. Blizzard. (Note: There are times where Blizzard is more beneficial than using your FoF procs if you have a TON of mobs [~15+] and you picked IN over FB. If you picked FB, NEVER Blizzard over using FoF procs on a FB target!)
    7. Frostbolt/FFB/IL/etc to finish off weak targets when most of the pack is already dead (make sure to Blizzard to get Frozen Orb off cooldown for the next pack though!).

    For smaller packs, just remove 6. because Blizzard isn't too effective. There will be some awesome moments where you get a ton of mobs though (the 1st boss's hallway in Bloodmaul for example) and can Blizzard+Orb for days

    Some tips/tricks/things that are noteworthy:
    - If you have ANY melee DPS in your group, always be aware of how close your tank is to the mobs prior to using Ice Nova (if you picked it), Pet Freeze, Frost Nova (if you picked FB), or your L45 talent, as freezing mobs that are in motion towards the tank may result in the melee getting bitchsmacked!
    - Pay close attention to your debuffs, as CMs drastically buff DoTs, and GIs and/or IBlocks will be needed to save the healer some mana.
    - If your group is ever having trouble interrupting spells or keeping buffs off of mobs, don't forget you can spam Poly (at a DPS loss) to keep their spellcasts at a minimum or Spellsteal some buffs off. Some places where you WILL have to Spellsteal include: Hallway to/2nd boss of UBRS (Alchemist/Kyrak's healing concoction), Trash to 1st boss of Auchindoun (Void Shells and other healing/absorption effects), Anything the Geomancers/Blood Mages in Bloodmaul put Earth Shield/Blood Rage (or w/e it's called) on. (Can't remember if there were others; it's pretty late)

    Hope this helps in any way, and best of luck to getting gold!
    Super helpful information! Thank-you so much! Also - what kind of DPS should I be pulled on Trash/Bosses? Just want to know what I should aiming for/doing.

    Other than that, your explanations were really detailed and explained in a way that I know I can pull off. Kudos!!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sumaku13 View Post
    Super helpful information! Thank-you so much! Also - what kind of DPS should I be pulled on Trash/Bosses? Just want to know what I should aiming for/doing.

    Other than that, your explanations were really detailed and explained in a way that I know I can pull off. Kudos!!
    Glad to help, but unfortunately, I don't really remember >_> It also ranged greatly based on how many mobs there were.

  7. #7
    Frost bomb+Incanter's Flow+Prismatic crystal for aoe and singletarget.

    Prismatic on AoE will allow you to not have to look for a target to place your frost bomb on, or have a target that you placed frost bomb on die early. It eliminates that completely. Comet Storm is not very impressive even after the buffs to it, especially considering how Prismatic enables you to take full effect of your frost bomb without having to worry about targets moving away from the aoe pack or dying too early.

    Thermal Void, imo, is pretty lackluster. Big AoE pulls are usually over by the time a normal duration Icy Veins as run out. I don't see the need for a longer Icy Veins duration.

    Frost bomb+Prismatic on singletarget allows for some rediculous singletarget burst, especially if you have bloodlust/heroism. My current burst record on singletarget in a challengemode is 110k peak. This was with bloodlust and both trinket procs during my prismatic. The only boss I don't play prismatic on is last boss in UBRS because it is very difficult to place a good prismatic in "phase two".

    I've done about 20 8/8 cm boost on my mage and this setup has worked the best for me. I'm open to other suggestions though.
    Last edited by Distinkt; 2015-05-06 at 09:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Distinkt View Post
    <snip>
    While this might be personal bias (because I HATE the bloody thing), I'm against PC in CMs, especially to someone starting out in them for the first time. I can't even imagine using it in the first room of UBRS trash with all the other things you're required to do. It's fine on bosses, but eh for trash. CmS is just fire-and-forget.

    To be fair though, I also did primarily use Ice Nova over Frost Bomb, so I could see FB users potentially preferring PC, as I did have some troubles keeping FB on (living) targets with things being blown up so quickly, but that's just my two cents *shrug*.

  9. #9
    I'd drop comet storm and go for Thermal Void. This talent mixed with the orb extends thermal void by quite a bit and is excellent for AoE for all the big trash pulls that are needed to get Gold in challenge mode. I go with Ice Nova, its harder hitting than Frost bomb and you can cast 2 of them. This is the route I'd go:

    1) ice nova twice to get the CD rolling
    2) pet freeze
    3) pop icy veins and any cd trinkets you may have
    4) ice lance FoF from your pets freeze
    5) orb
    6) ice lance when its FoF
    8) ffb on instant cast
    7) frostbolt filler

    I hardly use blizzard.

  10. #10
    Pc is going to be better than storm because pc is more burst by a LOT and let's you burst through hard pulls.

    If you're playing one spec:
    Ice floes hands down
    flame glow or ice barrier doesn't really matter
    ring of frost had uses last xpac but not really anymore
    greater invis hands down no questions asked
    frost bomb.
    incanters flow
    Prismatic crystal hands down

    ms>haste~~crit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •