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  1. #41

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Mp5 -> Healer first.
    Hit rating -> Dps first.
    Haste/crit -> Whoever rolls highest/highest dkp/priority/works hardest.

    For every item with Mp5 there is a dps weapon with the same amount of spellpower(except maybe the legendary, but that doesn't count)

  2. #42

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    I left my first wotlk raiding guild because they didn't have loot rules.

    I actually left on two counts, first I didn't want to be in a guild with a poor loot distribution system and secondly I didn't really want to guild with anybody who would consider these upgrades.

    My main is a holy paladin and he doesn't have a single piece of spirit on his gear, let alone hit.

  3. #43

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Molobolo
    Last I checked: mp5 benefits ALL casters. The only reason why a healer doesn't roll on a weapon with hit rating is because the get NO benefits from it, that doesn't mean they shouldn't roll on it's an upgrade, like lets say going from a weapon with 400 SP & 30 mp5 to a weapon with 600 SP & 40 hit rating.

    While hit rating is specifically for DPS, MP5 benefits everyone. It's just mp5 is more geared towards a stat for healers since dps can find something with hit. Both healers and DPS would roll on a weapon that just contained spell power, crit, & haste.
    I pity the player who would waste his stat points on gear with mp5 when gearing properly would result in more dps and a bigger contribution to the group.

  4. #44

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    I never said that your casters had good luck with loot drops. Random loot is after all random, and you may well never have had a non-mp5 weapon drop for you.

  5. #45

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOMGC
    I never said that your casters had good luck with loot drops. Random loot is after all random, and you may well never have had a non-mp5 weapon drop for you.
    Your comment is irrevelent.

  6. #46

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarkan
    Forgive me if I'm being overly cynical, but this is a thinly veiled "Im a caster DPS and my raid leader wouldnt give me this weapon and gave it to a healer instead. Now Im looking for support from the WoW community to prove him wrong".

    Bad luck, because you arent going to get that support here.

    What youre neglecting is, while yes, it is an upgrade for you, the weapon is not well itemised for you. In the same tier of content - whatever you are doing - there will be a weapon which is well itemised for you. If that drops from the next boss you down, then you will have an MP5 weapon you will no longer use and your healer is screwed out of a damn good weapon.

    This arguement can go around in circles for days.

    Have a look in other forum threads about who should get what gear. My personal favourites are "Should Boomkin roll on cloth?", "Should fury warriors roll on leather?" and "Should Holy Pallys be allowed to roll on anything that isnt plate?".

    Everyone has an opinion and invariably their opinion is whatever benefits the class they play the most.

    Extract your head from your backside and see that it benefits your RAID GROUP (you know, those people who helped you get the gear youve already got) more for the healer to have that weapon, then wait for your turn to come around and /roll when something that is actually decent for you drops.
    yes

  7. #47

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    without reading all the above posts....

    there is more and more of this situation in the new patches/content.

    EG holy pallies, in colth and mail.

    the age old hunter V rogue/F.druid.

    ALSO consider, most loot in a well planned guild run should, most of the time go to the MT/healers before DPS to ensure the whats best for the guild..... also works with the most reliable person.

    just something to think about

  8. #48

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOMGC
    This is something I don't get. Yes, Mp5 is a healer-oriented stat, but that doesn't mean a healer gets any extra regen from their new loot.

    Say you've got one healer and a caster dps - both of them are using a 550sp weapon with 50 crit rating and 25Mp5. They run an instance and a 650sp 50 crit rating 25Mp5 weapon drops. So suddenly everyone goes "omfg healer wepaon!!!111 it got mp5". But why should the healer get it first if it doesn't give them any more Mp5?
    Right, say the dps wins the weapon, then on the next boss (for arguments sake the weapon is enchanted and cannot be traded) a weapon with 650sp, 50 crit and 50 haste drop. Would it still be fair if the dps rolled for it? It's is a massive upgrade for the healer, way more then for the dps. What if the dps won that item as well, kinda unfair for the healer right?
    Sharkughash, resto shaman (main): http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dentarg&n=Sharkughash

    Aradhel, Ret Pally (alt): http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dentarg&n=Sharkughash

  9. #49

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOMGC
    This is something I don't get. Yes, Mp5 is a healer-oriented stat, but that doesn't mean a healer gets any extra regen from their new loot.

    Say you've got one healer and a caster dps - both of them are using a 550sp weapon with 50 crit rating and 25Mp5. They run an instance and a 650sp 50 crit rating 25Mp5 weapon drops. So suddenly everyone goes "omfg healer wepaon!!!111 it got mp5". But why should the healer get it first if it doesn't give them any more Mp5?
    Would you be making the same argument if you and the healer were both using a weapon with 550 sp, 50 crit and 50 hit, and the next item that dropped hat 650 sp, 50 crit, and 50 hit? It's just as much of an upgrade for the healer as it is for the offensive caster (let's assume holy pally as the healer here, since they do judge regularly and get a *very* small benefit from hit rating so that it's not an entirely wasted stat).

  10. #50

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42
    Would you be making the same argument if you and the healer were both using a weapon with 550 sp, 50 crit and 50 hit, and the next item that dropped hat 650 sp, 50 crit, and 50 hit? It's just as much of an upgrade for the healer as it is for the offensive caster (let's assume holy pally as the healer here, since they do judge regularly and get a *very* small benefit from hit rating so that it's not an entirely wasted stat).
    Listen to this guy. He's cool

  11. #51

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    At first I was thinking, "Mp5= healer stat, gtfo dps casters".

    Then I realized there are some Mp5 peices that are huge for casters. Like the ring from heroic Jaraxxas has Mp5 on it, But it is also a BiS for 1-2 caster dps classes. I'm kinda torn here, since I have a healer and would be pissed to lose something with Mp5 to a dps. Though that Mp5 ring is a BiS for my Mage.

  12. #52
    Dreadlord H3ll's Avatar
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    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanS
    Seriously tho, u fail if u use mp5 as dps
    I'm an ele shammy, and an mp5 ring is a BiS for me, so shhhh. It's not my fault that ele shammy's are the only caster dps that have no use for spirit ...

  13. #53

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    The only reason for dps to be rolling on MP5 gear is that there is no decent alternative.

    Elly shammies back in Ulduar were in this position, the only weapons that they could wield had MP5, so in any sensible raid they got to roll on those weapons with the same priority as a healer.

    Otherwise as people have pointed out it's a wasted stat, and downright greedy to want MP5 gear. As somebody else pointed out if Mp5 doesn't mean healer then hit doesn't mean dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by H3ll
    I'm an ele shammy, and an mp5 ring is a BiS for me, so shhhh. It's not my fault that ele shammy's are the only caster dps that have no use for spirit ...
    Yeh, you guys get hosed on this one pretty frequently, you're pretty much the only exception though.

  14. #54

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Azyoulike
    Yeh, you guys get hosed on this one pretty frequently, you're pretty much the only exception though.
    With any luck, this will be better in Cataclsym though.

    -mp5 removed as a stat on gear
    -spirit re-designed as a stat for healers

    Both of which together mean that mages, warlocks, balance druids, shadow priests, and elemental shamans will need some other source of mana. I figure (hope) they can get these kind of stat issues ironed out in the transition.

    (I'm not naive as to think they won't create new stat issues in the process, but that's entirely beside the point :-P)

  15. #55

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Hit--->casters
    Mp5--->healers

    i know that blah blah blah Ring of the Darkmender heroic is pretty much BiS but tbh that a load of shit.

  16. #56

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Nobody is saying mp5 loot can't be an upgrade for a dps class.

    If you have an ilvl187 blue and you get an ilvl232 item - regardless of stat distribution the ilvl232 is going to have so much more spellpower that it would be a huge upgrade. If however, there is a healer and a dps that needs it, the healer should take priority every time, because they make the most use of the stat. If an mp5 weapon drops and there are no healers in the group, knock yourself out.


  17. #57

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42
    With any luck, this will be better in Cataclsym though.

    -mp5 removed as a stat on gear
    -spirit re-designed as a stat for healers

    Both of which together mean that mages, warlocks, balance druids, shadow priests, and elemental shamans will need some other source of mana. I figure (hope) they can get these kind of stat issues ironed out in the transition.

    (I'm not naive as to think they won't create new stat issues in the process, but that's entirely beside the point :-P)
    The only reason locks use spirit is because fel armor and life tap glyph converts their spirit into SP..

  18. #58

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Here is my story to contribute:
    I'm still fucking pissed about what happened early on in naxx 25,
    A god damn fucking holy paladin rolled on and won http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40336
    after I had farmed that item for 5 weeks on my warlock(the 3 weeks some other mage/warlock got it, after that I haven't seen it drop once). This sword was the only thing I was missing to get BiS from naxx 25 (maybe missing something from malygos or kel thuzad)
    so fuck that holy paladin, I wish I could kick him in the fucking balls. and then set him on fire

    I ended up never getting that weapon, wasn't even able to upgrade it in ulduar either, so I was actually running toc10 in the first weeks with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39271 until I could upgrade it with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47569 which was the time when I got my [epic] achievement.
    Holy fucking paladin I fucking hate you. DIEE. YOU HEAR ME? DIIIIIEE

  19. #59

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    of course a healer get priority on mp5 gear.

    with ur logic its like saying "oh healers should get to roll on hit gear" dps dont need mp5

    Quote Originally Posted by RyanS
    OMG WHY SHOULD A TANK GET A WEAPON WITH 212 DPS JSUT COS IT HAS DEFENSE ON IT.....

    Seriously tho, u fail if u use mp5 as dps
    couldnt have said it any better ^

  20. #60

    Re: Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42
    With any luck, this will be better in Cataclsym though.
    Cataclysm it will all be about armour priority. Pallies & shammies will have absolutely no reason not to roll on any healer cloth. Assuming that they drop healer cloth/leather/mail/plate in equal amounts there will be much ugliness in pugs.

    Will be similar on the caster-dps side, but there I'd expect to see more cloth drops versus mail/leather due to the higher numbers of cloth dps specs - so it may not be as bad.


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