Mp5 loot should go to healers first... fallacy?

[Chitzu]

This thread has nothing to do with best-in-slot pieces for the most part. I'm pretty sure most people realize that BiS pieces can be badly itemized from time to time. You still shouldn't get your BiS piece first over somebody else if it is a bigger upgrade for their class and they raid just as regularly as you. I don't care that circle of the darkmender is BiS for DPS. It's better for healers. You can get it after the healers.

It has everything to do with Best in slot Pieces, you're saying that all MP5 loot should go to Healers first etc, go take a look at the possible loot table for Elemental Shamans, you'll pretty soon realize that the possible loot we could get is screwed all over by Blizzard.

There's no such "it benefits healers more..." It's Best in Slot for us and possibly Best in Slot for them, there's nothing we can get that's better, and nothing they can get that's better, so... it's equal.

Just cause it has MP5 doesn't mean that we can't roll on it or even use it, once again: take a look at our T7 Elemental Gloves, you'll find out that there's MP5 on our gloves, why? cause Blizzard made it that way, so that a bad piece for us? (assuming pre-Ulduar) no, it was something that was pretty much best in Slot for us, so we don't have a choice.

As someone mentioned earlier, i'm a Elemental shaman, i got a wide overview of what's Best for us, what we possibly could replace that with meanwhile, there's nothing even close to it, if we would, we would lose so much Haste/SP on it that it's retarded, and we don't really need that much crit, already at 30% unbuffed crit without proccs or anything is high, it's far more then what we need to maintain a constant Clearcast up.

[Hyponic]

Epic Fail thread .

[Ffamran]

Wow, this thread is really stupid. With this arguement, you could say that a tank has a fast weapon with 155 dps and 30 defence, and a rogue has a fast weapon with 155 dps and 30 defence, then a weapon with 178 dps, 30 defence and expertise drops, and the rogue should be allowed to roll on it. Or, you could say that healers are allowed to roll on hit rating gear. Or, tanks rolling on dps weapons. Etc etc.... it just doesn't work, and thread sounds like a big qq over you not getting some loot over a healer who could, and will use it, more effectively than you could as a dps.

[Sarevokcz]

Seriously tho, u fail if u use mp5 as dps

orrrrr you could simply have a bad luck on non-mp5 hammers and non-spirit daggers you know? just because KT 25 mace has mp5 doesnt mean it wasnt BiS for some dps specs at the time, or that spirit dagger from uld was BiS for eleshammy even tho it has completely useless stat and i stopped playing before 3.2 went live, but im sure in ToC it was similar.

that said, IMO, mp5 weapons should be considered more of a healer weapon and i would never try to get it over any dedicated guild healer if it was an actual upgrade for him/her, but its up to guilds and their loot policy.

[Azyoulike]

orrrrr you could simply have a bad luck on non-mp5 hammers and non-spirit daggers you know? just because KT 25 mace has mp5 doesnt mean it wasnt BiS for some dps specs at the time, or that spirit dagger from uld was BiS for eleshammy even tho it has completely useless stat and i stopped playing before 3.2 went live, but im sure in ToC it was similar.

Actually as a pleasant surprise ToC doesn't have this issue. 25 man has a +hit dagger, a haste/crit sword & a haste/crit mace. None of the weapons are spirit or MP5.

KT-weapons were a horrible source of guild-drama for the exact reasons you give. Ulduar was a bit better due to more spirit daggers, but still sucked for Elly shaman as you say. ToC finally got decent weapon itemization for casters, the only point of contention is one lousy ring.

[dazline]

meh with the lack of enrage timers in regs, you should just give all the gear to your healers =p hit,mp5 w/e. dps is bad meh boss kill is slow, healers are bad meh you dont kill boss period =p.

[Veyne]

And THIS is why stat simplification in Cataclysm is going to be a good thing. Too many things make it a clusterfuck and apparently people lack the brain capacity to understand what gear should go to who.

In cataclysm, a caster with Spirit gear will be just as much of a facepalm as a healer with Hit gear.

[Mixon]

ITS ALL HUNTER GEAR!!!

no really...look at alot of bc hunter gear.

[Zeuq]

I don't think the MP5->Healer Hit->DPS rule should be taken as law. If you're running in a guild, you should always take into consideration everyone else rolling on gear and consider the size of the upgrade for you and for others interested. Yes, if they're both roughly similar upgrades, I think the healer should generally have priority, but that's not always the case.

I'll fabricate an example to illustrate my point. Let's say an iLevel 245 SP/Crit/MP5 weapon drops and a Holy Paladin and an Elemental Shaman both roll on it. The rule would say the Holy Paladin should get priority because it has MP5. However, what if the Paladin has an iLevel 232 weapon with SP/Haste/MP5 and the Shaman is using a 213 SP/Crit/MP5 weapon. Well, considering how good Haste is over Crit for Pallies these days, all he'd gain is a nice chunk of SP, but it's also a MUCH better upgrade for the Shaman, so I'd say he should at least consider passing, depending on what other weapon upgrades are available to each of you. Similarly, the Shaman should roll because it's a huge upgrade, but if the weapon is the best available to the Paladin in the near future and he has other options, he shouldn't feel bitter if the Paladin doesn't pass to him.

Bottom line, your first priority should always be success of your raid. It's great to have all the phat lootz, but it doesn't do you any good to have all your healers in full 245/258 and your DPS in 226/232, because you won't be able to meet any berserk timers.

Obviously, if you're in a PUG, the rules change a little bit, and I'd say in the same situation above the Shaman should roll equal with the Paladin. However, you should also be careful not to be a loot whore because you'll make a reputation for yourself and not get into other PUGs. So, you should still try to be considerate.

[billymont]

I don't think the MP5->Healer Hit->DPS rule should be taken as law. If you're running in a guild, you should always take into consideration everyone else rolling on gear and consider the size of the upgrade for you and for others interested. Yes, if they're both roughly similar upgrades, I think the healer should generally have priority, but that's not always the case.

I'll fabricate an example to illustrate my point. Let's say an iLevel 245 SP/Crit/MP5 weapon drops and a Holy Paladin and an Elemental Shaman both roll on it. The rule would say the Holy Paladin should get priority because it has MP5. However, what if the Paladin has an iLevel 232 weapon with SP/Haste/MP5 and the Shaman is using a 213 SP/Crit/MP5 weapon. Well, considering how good Haste is over Crit for Pallies these days, all he'd gain is a nice chunk of SP, but it's also a MUCH better upgrade for the Shaman, so I'd say he should at least consider passing, depending on what other weapon upgrades are available to each of you. Similarly, the Shaman should roll because it's a huge upgrade, but if the weapon is the best available to the Paladin in the near future and he has other options, he shouldn't feel bitter if the Paladin doesn't pass to him.

Bottom line, your first priority should always be success of your raid. It's great to have all the phat lootz, but it doesn't do you any good to have all your healers in full 245/258 and your DPS in 226/232, because you won't be able to meet any berserk timers.

Obviously, if you're in a PUG, the rules change a little bit, and I'd say in the same situation above the Shaman should roll equal with the Paladin. However, you should also be careful not to be a loot whore because you'll make a reputation for yourself and not get into other PUGs. So, you should still try to be considerate.

i too will fabricate a story to illustrate my point. let's say the shammy gets that weapon and enchants it and begins using it, next boss drops a weapon with same stats but with hit rating on it. the paladin will obviously pass because it sucks for him so the shammy gets it. now the shammy can use a neckpiece he had sitting in his bags without hit because he had to use a crap neckpiece with hit to maintain hit cap. so instead of two raid members with 245 weapons, you have one. grats, you just made your raid worse.

[Wheres]

Such as Betrayer of Humanity?

Find a modern example, not one from content that no one does for gear anymore.

[Deleted]

You fail horribly. Get yourself an item that has crit or haste or hit or something instead of mp5...

[Koffie]

So the DPS shouldn't get the item because the stat is mostly wasted, even if its a clear upgrade? Don't make sense to me at all, in the example both the healer and dps gain 100sp.

So a healer can get a weapon with hit on it too? It can also be an upgrate looking at all the other stats?? Give healers a break please as so many things are reserved because of hitrating to dps. Let hit be DPS and mp5 be healer

[Sunshine]

Necro'ing a post is not fun.