Arcane vs. Fire

[Sarías]

I've been playing Fire mage since the launch of Burning Crusade and as Frost before that but more recently arcane mages have been getting even more common in raids so I'm writing here for some counselling, is arcane better than fire as a raiding talent-tree?

As Fire mage with the gear I have ( I will post armory link at bottom though I may be in PvP gear ) I am doing about 5-5.5k DPS in a 25 man raid, I tried out arcane for a while but it didn't match the damage output I had in fire so went back.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...lbane&n=Makani

[draconith]

Unfortunatly I can't really help you that much with the information given. Yes it is theorized that arcane is slightly ahead of fire, if you didn't put out the same numbers there are any factors that could go into that. Please if you read this again answer some of these questions.

- What spec were you using?
- What was your rotation and how did you manage your cooldowns. (Like when did you use them.)
- Is there any gear not up on your armory that you use when in arcane spec.
- If so what are your stats when you switch gear.

Those will help greatly in allowing us to figure out what went wrong. In the meantime in your current gear I see a few problems you could address.

- overcapped on hit. Without a boomkin or spreist in the raid you only need 11% hit from gear because of the 6% you get from talents. If you regularly raid with a boomkin or a spriest you only need 8% hit from gear so use this to your advantage when picking peices.

- Low haste. Arcane benefits greatly from haste. When dropping some of your hit gear try to pick up some gear with haste on it. A few peices I can think of are the trinket from toc5 man normal abyssal rune, the triumph bad ring, Scepter of imprisoned souls from 10 man toc norm or reg. (If the reg version dropping 6 spellpower for 28 crit and 21 haste is totally worth it.) Also try to get eye of the broodmother to replace sundial of the exiled or just as well get the 128 int trinket from triumph badges.

That's about all I can help you with at the moment. If you post again with some of the information I may be able to help you quite a bit more.

[Sarías]

As for the first question here is a link to the specc I used as arcane: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0Vc...dcZbGc0o:Nzi0o

As for rotation It was a bit sloppy since I've never played arcane before but when I first tried it in 3.2 My rotation were:
3x Arcane Blast
Arcane Missiles > Arcane Barrage
repeat.

Cooldowns liek Icy Veins and Arcane Power were used during Heroism or earlier depending on the fight.

The gear on my armory is the gear I allways use in PvE so it's the same no matter specc.

The high hit is there simply because Fire is my main specc and in that specc I am right on the cap and don't want to drop that too soon without knowing how re-speccing and re-gearing for Arcane affects my raiding efficiency.

Eye of the Broodmother is a trinket I've been wanting for a long time since as a fire-mage it's one of the best items I can get my hands on, The one from ToC 5 is also an item I've been trying to get, knowing that Arcane gains allot from haste and it being fairly easy to achive. So far I've had little luck with the drops and when it have dropped I'd be so kind to pass it to other mages or warlocks that need the gear more than I do.

[Tragix]

Play whatever spec you like the most, the difference at the moment is negligible.

[bladey]

i use 4 x arcane blast before missiles... and dmg is imba...
dont use 3x use 4x

[Sarías]

At the time I tried arcane, the effect didn't stack four times so I only cast it 3 times to save mana.

[mirages]

The difference between arcane and fire mage from a purely numbers standpoint is minimal. I play arcane and put out about 3-5% more dps then the fire mage. The difference is very minimal but I hate the playstyle of fire, and he hates the playstyle of arcane.

Thats what it comes down to, which playstyle suits you better?

My offspec is fire for encounters that fire is better than arcane.

[draconith]

This spec will work better. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#of0is...dcZbhf0o:Nzi0o

A few things that I have changed.

- removal of slow. This spell is actually quite uselss to us considering the fact that every tank should be keeping up something that procs torment the weak anyway. If your tanks are failing to do this you should talk to them. I put the extra point in magic absorbtion to help raid healers mana pools.

- Moved all points out of student of mind put one in Incanters absorbstion 1 in magic attunement for +3 yard range. some people may debate me over that one but i see no problem with putting a point there/ dont see anyweher better to put it and the last point I put into maxxing out magic absorbtion.

- Moved 2 points out of Ice shard and put into frost warding. If your going to take some fire/ice damage pop thier wards for a chance at pretty much a free mana pot. Likewise it will proc incanters absorbtion and increase your spellpower for a while. You can also learn to bait the mana return (like popping fire ward and running into fire for just a tick to try to get the mana return.)

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rotation

The rotation is no longer 3xab AM

the rotation is now spam AB untill mbam procs and then clear your stacks. There might be some rare cases where Mbam doesn't proc for 8-9 AB's at which point I believe clearing the stack with AM and starting over is the best choice. (some people say do it with arcane barrage but it's a higher mana cost so I personally go with AM. However, this is pretty rare considering mbam has a 40% proc rate on every AB.)

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Cooldowns.



Depending on where your raid decides they are going to BL you may have time to pop IV + AP right during the pull to mana dump immediatly and also have your cooldowns done in time for the BL. When your IV reaches a duration with 1-2 seconds left Use that time for a hasted evocation and continue with your normal rotation. POM should be macroed with arcane blast and is best used when you have reached a 4 stack of AB without getting a mbam proc.

Hope some of this advice has helped you. If you have any questions feel free to ask here and I will try to respnd or send me a message on here. Also on the point if arcane is better, that really depands on how you play. If you are willing to sacrifice 5% dps to stay fire feel free. However, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to improve your character arcane will be the spec to switch to. Personally I love both specs so when one is ahead of the other I switch to the higher dps spec.

[Sarías]

For Pve Purpose I don't understand why the points in Magic Absorbation is good.

Also since I'll be using Molten Armor Wich contributes from Spirit the removal of points in Student of the Mind seems like a waste to me.

The rotation was new to me, although I do read patch notes and know what it's new effect does but to use it untill you get a procc even after 4 stacks was unexpected.

[draconith]

In the fights where it works (which is pretty much all of them with a Priest buddy, half of them without) Incanter's Absorption is a humongously larger DPS increase than student of the mind


Rawr.Mage is quite handy for modelling this (as well as pretty much anything else worth modelling)

To see the effect of PW:S, set incoming damage and damage absorbed to ~200/s for a PW:S every 30s, ~100/s for every minute

To see the effect of Fire Ward / Frost Ward, set incoming damage and damage absorbed to ~130/sec

Then look at the talent weights.


PS: Incanter's Absorption is particularly worth it if you take Frost Warding, since Frost Warding procs count as absorbs for the full value of the damage negated.

And in fights like Iron Council, it just does ridiculously wicked things, Spellsteal Molgeim and until Steelbreaker dies... nothin like hovering around 3.5-4k Spell Power for a sustained duration also did I mention fully raid buffed sotm is only like 80 more spirit which does not equal enough crit to make it better IA. Really any fight where you have the ability to absorb damage (twin valks as an extreme example.) makes it a huge dps increase

[Sarías]

Ok, that cleared up a few things, but why the 2 points in Magic Absorbation?

[draconith]

really the points in MA and magic attunment are a preference. They could easily be switched to pushback protection. I feel there aren't enough fights atm to justify not helping reduce incoming raid damge or increase my range by 3 yards allowing me some more flexability on where I am able to postion myself. Not only am I helping reduce raid damage with that but I also am giving myself (a very small chance but still a chance.) to get even more mana back.

[Sarías]

Ok. Got any suggestion for things I can do to up the haste or replace some items with haste items?

[Amandil]

At the time I tried arcane, the effect didn't stack four times so I only cast it 3 times to save mana.

This would be the problem. You tried it back when fire indeed was better than arcane. The debuff change along with other buffs is the reason its viable again.

[draconith]

Yeah in my first post I gave a few easily obtainable Items that should help increase your haste. For arcane haste is pretty damn close to equaling spellpower (if not perfectly equal or a little better. cant remeber the number.) so keep that in mind when looking at upgrades. Keep in mind I can only really remeber about 10 man items seeing as how I only raid 10 mans. Another thing you could aim to get is Icehowl's belt to replace your badge belt.

[Sarías]

Ok, thanks allot for all help =)

[Swizzle]

i say remove the point from magic attunement and put it in IA. but that's just me.

[lavitz]

Ok. Got any suggestion for things I can do to up the haste or replace some items with haste items?

Haste trinket called Aybss Rune (spelling is wrong) and it drops in ToC normal 5 man, that is an amazing trinket if you wanting to change to arcane. Thats a very good place to start.