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  1. #1

    Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Hi, I usually don't PvE a lot on my Holy Paladin but with the 3 new dungeons coming`out + the new dungeon system I decided to go for a secondary PvE Holy spec on my paladin. I noticed most of the top PvE paladins are using a 51/0/20 spec. So is it even worth it going for a Holy/Ret spec mainly for doing 5 mans and Archavon once in a while or should i stick with a Holy/Prot spec?

    And do you even use Sacred Shield as Holy/Ret? Sacred shield lasts only 30 seconds without http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53530
    should be annoying to keep it up every 30s?

  2. #2

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    the spec you need to choose is mostly dependant on gear. if you have lower Ilvl gear, you are better off going with 51/0/20. else you take 51/20/0.

    but for heroics and archavon, you don't really have a need for the extra CD (apart from the somewhat harder bosses, like TBK hc ghostofrom and other heavy raid damage bosses). it is nice to have later on, but not needed in heroics.

    then again, extra crit also has some debate for heroics.

    i'll say this: i don't have a holy spec, and i won't say i'm good at holy specs. but i don't think it matters for heroics, since they are both rather redundant.

    edit: just to clarify: sacred shield is a good thing to keep up. If i had to choose, i would pick the 51/20/0 spec.
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  3. #3

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    You're asking if you, as a healer, should bother with a damage absorbing shield that also adds a HoT to your flash of light heals?

    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer: Are you serious? Yes. Especially for VoA, since Emalon hits pretty damn hard.

  4. #4
    The Patient Kaeyoss's Avatar
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    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    As a pally with the holy/prot build, i much prefer it to the holy/ret build. sure, i may not crit as much, but divine sacrifice more than makes up for that in raid survivability. same with heroic survivability...as im sure the new heroics are going to hurt for healing

  5. #5

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athael
    You're asking if you, as a healer, should bother with a damage absorbing shield that also adds a HoT to your flash of light heals?

    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer: Are you serious? Yes. Especially for VoA, since Emalon hits pretty damn hard.
    I always use Sacred Shield as Holy/Prot spec. But I've never played as Holy/Ret with only a 30s Sacred Shield before hence the question. Just seems to be annoying to keep it up 100% of the time if it only lasts 30 seconds.

  6. #6

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doylez
    I always use Sacred Shield as Holy/Prot spec. But I've never played as Holy/Ret with only a 30s Sacred Shield before hence the question. Just seems to be annoying to keep it up 100% of the time if it only lasts 30 seconds.
    Ah, I see. Well, I encountered the same conundrum when I respecced. It is definitely annoying to adjust to, but in my experience the tool is just too valuable a part of your kit not to use.

  7. #7

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    It does only last 30 seconds but its just something you have to deal with. Mana shouldn't be an issue on refreshing it and basically in heroics, you just have to refresh it each pull. Its not that big a deal.

  8. #8

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doylez
    Hi, I usually don't PvE a lot on my Holy Paladin but with the 3 new dungeons coming`out + the new dungeon system I decided to go for a secondary PvE Holy spec on my paladin. I noticed most of the top PvE paladins are using a 51/0/20 spec. So is it even worth it going for a Holy/Ret spec mainly for doing 5 mans and Archavon once in a while or should i stick with a Holy/Prot spec?

    And do you even use Sacred Shield as Holy/Ret? Sacred shield lasts only 30 seconds without http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53530
    should be annoying to keep it up every 30s?
    Most of top holy paladins using 51/0/20? I know that some Valnyr' users for bigger shields, but Divine Sacrifice and Divine Guardian are amazing talents that you should never go without them.

  9. #9

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by nzall
    the spec you need to choose is mostly dependant on gear. if you have lower Ilvl gear, you are better off going with 51/0/20. else you take 51/20/0.
    Basically what this guy said. In the beginning, you won't need the extra cooldown and the crit will help more.

    Once you get into serious raiding, bubble + shieldwall will help much, much more. Having Imp Devotion Aura is very nice as well, for 10 mans where you won't always be guaranteed a tree or a prot pally.

  10. #10

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmacy
    Basically what this guy said. In the beginning, you won't need the extra cooldown and the crit will help more.

    Once you get into serious raiding, bubble + shieldwall will help much, much more. Having Imp Devotion Aura is very nice as well, for 10 mans where you won't always be guaranteed a tree or a prot pally.
    Improved Sacred shield will "heal" more than 8% criticals. 5% from divinity and 6% from improved aura will be far more useful, too. To be able to shield wall your group is always useful. In 5-mans you don't need to bubble while doing it (a shield all is more than enough), so you can use it basicaly every boss or mob out of control.

  11. #11
    The Patient Dantrag's Avatar
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    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    i have 2 retadins with DS in my 25ppl raid and one in my 10ppl raid, so i have 51/2/18(i don't know any boss where raid needs 3 DS in 25ppl or 2 DS in 10man). spend one gcd every 30s can be a bit annoying but it's not dangerous to tank because avoidance now is pretty high, and your tank will most likely don't take 2 attacks in a row. druid treeform aura doesn't stack with imp Devotion. 1k armor is nearby 1-2% damage reducing for tank. 3% healing is... very small bonus.

    summary: personally i prefer 51/2/18 since i have 1-2 retadins in my raids, but if you have not, roll 51/20.
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  12. #12

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantrag
    i have 2 retadins with DS in my 25ppl raid and one in my 10ppl raid, so i have 51/2/18(i don't know any boss where raid needs 3 DS in 25ppl or 2 DS in 10man). spend one gcd every 30s can be a bit annoying but it's not dangerous to tank because avoidance now is pretty high, and your tank will most likely don't take 2 attacks in a row. druid treeform aura doesn't stack with imp Devotion. 1k armor is nearby 1-2% damage reducing for tank. 3% healing is... very small bonus.

    summary: personally i prefer 51/2/18 since i have 1-2 retadins in my raids, but if you have not, roll 51/20.
    If you have ret-dins, wouldn't you prefer 51/20 over 51/2/18? In my perspective it'd be useful to go 51/2/18 if there is no ret-pallies to provide sancitiy of battle buff to the raid (the 3% crit one after judging)..


  13. #13
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riek
    If you have ret-dins, wouldn't you prefer 51/20 over 51/2/18? In my perspective it'd be useful to go 51/2/18 if there is no ret-pallies to provide sancitiy of battle buff to the raid (the 3% crit one after judging)..

    Thats Heart of the Crusader, not Sanctity of Battle (which increases all damage by 3%).
    HotC is also brought by Prot paladins as well as Elemental shaman.

  14. #14

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronark
    Thats Heart of the Crusader, not Sanctity of Battle (which increases all damage by 3%).
    HotC is also brought by Prot paladins as well as Elemental shaman.
    ah got the names mixed up there my bad.

    Then is my point still valid? I'd think having healer use DS is more useful than having dps use it after all

  15. #15
    Immortal Ronark's Avatar
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    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riek
    ah got the names mixed up there my bad.

    Then is my point still valid? I'd think having healer use DS is more useful than having dps use it after all
    Considering it is a DPS loss for Ret to get DS/G, yes- The 20% reduced damage done to the raid is invaluable for specific encounters, both on live and in ICC.

  16. #16

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Very very very few Pallies should be running around with 20 points in the Ret tree. Imp Devo Aura doesn't stack with a Tree. Stop at 17.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    No they're not.

    Most top end PvE paladins use a 51/20/0 spec. Though I imagine this may change in 3.3, and seeing as that's basically tomorrow, erm... Stick with the crit?
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  18. #18

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    Ive been running 51/2/18 for a while now, took the 2 points out of pursuit of justice and put them into +2% healing, i love critting all the time, having a 40% unbuffed crit rate is awesome.

    we dont do 25 mans since were a small guild, and im pretty much the only paladin, i honestly havent tried the 51/20 spec, but losing out on imp might and that extra 8% crit would seem like a huge hit to me.

  19. #19

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    i have like 33% holy crit, and i could really care less if i had 40%.

    the critting all the time gets u what?

    prot gives u a better ss, absorbs more, lasts longer, assures u it should be up 100% of the time. It ABSORBs damage, not heals damage, so it gives your tank more effective health, which is huge nowadays. OMG, your epeen won't be as big on the recount meters, but OMG, your tank wont get a bad rng and die as often and you'll clear more content. no lie.

    being in a scrub guild doing scrub content is no excuse for saying "well, i use such and such spec, so it's the best"

    the best is, the best for all content. you just don't realize it till u do the harder stuff.

  20. #20

    Re: Holy 51/0/20 spec - Sacred Shield?

    critting all the time keeps you from having to cast holy light as much, saving you a ton of mana, dependant on your build and gear. you also help out the group by giving them 3% crit on the target, as well as giving melee imp might if you spec into ret.

    being near 50% crit in a raid is awesome. its not about healing meters, its about making your job easier, hitting flash of light crits that could be nearly as powerful as your holy light non crits. spam heals on the raid if theyre taking damage, and your tank still lives since youre critting constantly.

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