41.5% crit or 5% more healing!? talent choices

[Raptorg]

So it would be just fine on Beasts/Val'kyr, and a little dodgy on Jaraxxus/Anub.

[Riek]

So it would be just fine on Beasts/Val'kyr, and a little dodgy on Jaraxxus/Anub.

It was fine up until anub P3 for me

but then again, I've not experinced TOGC25 yet, this is all coming from TOGC10 experience =P

[Raptorg]

I guess it's a matter of having good tanks..
I'm usually highly sceptical about other tanks, which is why I usually prefer to do the harder jobs in a raid.


(No, I never pass up an opportunity to let the world know how awesome I am.)

[Ronark]

So it would be just fine on Beasts/Val'kyr, and a little dodgy on Jaraxxus/Anub.

As long as you have your tanks at the ready, having RF up can actually help you on Anub.

When the adds spawn, they will most likely go to the healer with RF on- This allows your tank to know exactly where they will be to pick them up, and also keep the adds from going for another, less armored healer.

[Raptorg]

As long as you have your tanks at the ready, having RF up can actually help you on Anub.

When the adds spawn, they will most likely go to the healer with RF on- This allows your tank to know exactly where they will be to pick them up, and also keep the adds from going for another, less armored healer.

Well, if my maths are correct, you'll still generate less threat than any ordinary healer(unless they're specced in threat reduction), so I'm not sure that will be that reliable.

Still, nobody has confirmed that paladin heals generate less threat than other spells(like they used to do a long time ago).

[Ronark]

Well, if my maths are correct, you'll still generate less threat than any ordinary healer(unless they're specced in threat reduction), so I'm not sure that will be that reliable.

Still, nobody has confirmed that paladin heals generate less threat than other spells(like they used to do a long time ago).

RF would increase the TPS by 157% (43% + 80%)

As for Paladin heals generating less TPS, I haven't heard of that before.

[thoukaia]

RF would increase the TPS by 157% (43% + 80%)

As for Paladin heals generating less TPS, I haven't heard of that before.

It's true, it was a change that happened long ago and it was intended to stop paladins from healtanking instances.

[Ronark]

It's true, it was a change that happened long ago and it was intended to stop paladins from healtanking instances.

You mean like SSC?

[thompgun]

Why to choose 51/5/15 or 51/0/20 Instead of 51/20/0
My opinion is for the best all around PVE focused holy pally specc.

where would you put your talent points in the prot tree?
-------divinity 5 pts great but what else?

-Stocism - 3 pts horrible
-Guardian's Favor - 2 pts the BoP talent. nice but when do you really need to bop that fast. BOP CD 5min// talented CD 3min no big deal for raids.
-Toughness- armor
-Anticipation- dodge
-righteous fury

All pretty worthless till you spend 9 talent points muckin around before Divine Guardian/Sacifice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the ret tree?
-Benediction - instant spells cost 10% less
-improved judgements - sucks but if you daily quests it will give you a dps increase. but i write this for healing pve.
-heart of the crusader- you judge to return mana/ put up judgement of light or to get your haste buff going. putting this debuff is great for 5mans and very often used in 10mans, especially if you are the holy pally.
-improved might- great buff, better points than judgements for a holypally
-pursuit of justice- you can have the other enchant on your boots becuase poj is faster.
-crit talent 5%
-sanctity of battle - crit talent
healing output/regen or whatever but still a stat that makes your heals better

[Kairu]

[Useless Opinion Here]

8% crit, vs raid-wide shield wall, and increased absorb on SS.

Choice is pretty damn clear, though, its your opinion, if you're so opposed to it, then don't take it. You don't need to argue your reasons here, just do what you want, we merely give advice.

Though, in terms of speccing, I believe the only people who still go into ret for top guilds are people who have snagged a val'anyr.

[Ronark]

Why to choose 51/5/15 or 51/0/20 Instead of 51/20/0
My opinion is for the best all around PVE focused holy pally specc.

where would you put your talent points in the prot tree?
-------divinity 5 pts great but what else?

-Stocism - 3 pts horrible
-Guardian's Favor - 2 pts the BoP talent. nice but when do you really need to bop that fast. BOP CD 5min// talented CD 3min no big deal for raids.
-Toughness- armor
-Anticipation- dodge
-righteous fury

All pretty worthless till you spend 9 talent points muckin around before Divine Guardian/Sacifice.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the ret tree?
-Benediction - instant spells cost 10% less
-improved judgements - sucks but if you daily quests it will give you a dps increase. but i write this for healing pve.
-heart of the crusader- you judge to return mana/ put up judgement of light or to get your haste buff going. putting this debuff is great for 5mans and very often used in 10mans, especially if you are the holy pally.
-improved might- great buff, better points than judgements for a holypally
-pursuit of justice- you can have the other enchant on your boots becuase poj is faster.
-crit talent 5%
-sanctity of battle - crit talent
healing output/regen or whatever but still a stat that makes your heals better

Righteous Fury is a very nice talent to have.

Benediction is okay.
Imp Judgements is a waste.
HotC is a waste.
Imp Might is a waste.
PoJ is a good talent.
8% crit is nice, but doesn't compare to the potential HPS of the lengthened SS and DS/G.

Basically, it is:
6% Reduced Damage
20% reduced Raid damage every 2 minutes
2x Max HP less Party damage.
12% base mana saved a minute.

-or-

8% Crit
15% Run speed
22.733333% base mana saved a minute (assuming glyphed BoL, and HS/SS used every cooldown)

[Raptorg]

Imp Might is far from a waste, though..

[Raptorg]

You mean like SSC?

That's the main reason I'm not sure about it, it was active during Vanilla, but it's possible they took it out for SSC.

[Riek]

Imp Might is far from a waste, though..

It's a waste because you almost always have ret pallies in raids



anyways @ OP: put 3pts into divinity, 3% healing sounds better than 3% crit since you already have enough crit %

[Raptorg]

It's a waste because you almost always have ret pallies in raids

And what if you don't?
What if you have a resto druid/prot pally in your raid?

Seriously, what you're saying is just bullshit.

[Azyoulike]

And what if you don't?
What if you have a resto druid/prot pally in your raid?

Seriously, what you're saying is just bullshit.

It's more because people generally expect healers to focus primarily on healing/mitigation and dps to focus primarily on damage/damage buffs.

You yourself don't have Mark of Blood in your dps spec, preferring to get every possible bit of DPS you can get. So you give up a useful defensive raid CD for more offence. Likewise it makes sense for a holy pally to give up a potential offensive buff for a potential defensive buff.

[darthceltic]

ret tree was nice, back when ulduar first came out. then with the increased stats from gear, and the nerf to illum, along with the game mechanics in most hard mode fights make for times where damage seems too much, and u need divine sac.

now, i'm 99% sure the op is the reg mode if that guy/guild. he's ok with the ret tree, can't see why a shield that absorbs heals (i mean, come on, it wont make your hps bigger on recount, it's worthless) is good, how reduced damage taken is usefull, or why you would need a time where u can reduce damage to 25 players by 20% is needed.

basically, in reg mode fights, i am 1000% sure, i could put every pt i got in the prot tree, and still keep tanks alive and clear easily.

but we here "assume" that when u ask for advice, you are asking for best for worst case fight. In the future, word it like this.

41% crit or 3% healing for non-hard mode fights. and then u can debate that ret tree is better i guess.

and another clue that people aren't doing hard modes. no way are u doing hard modes without all the available buffs. ret pally, every hard mode guild has at least 1. and every hard mode guild has a tree, a prot pally, or a holy pally with 3pts in devo for tree of life buff. so, if your 25 guild has no tree healer or prot pally, you will be 51-20 prot. end of story. It amazes me how people can ask for advice, get the correct advice, and call it crap. how thick can u be?

[Raptorg]

It's more because people generally expect healers to focus primarily on healing/mitigation and dps to focus primarily on damage/damage buffs.

You yourself don't have Mark of Blood in your dps spec, preferring to get every possible bit of DPS you can get. So you give up a useful defensive raid CD for more offence. Likewise it makes sense for a holy pally to give up a potential offensive buff for a potential defensive buff.

That doesn't mean it's a useless talent to a holy paladin.

And I don't have a dps spec..

[Riek]

And what if you don't?
What if you have a resto druid/prot pally in your raid?

Seriously, what you're saying is just bullshit.

wow if you don't and if you have restodruid/propally in the raid, you'd clearly take pts out of imp dev and relocate it somewhere else. Imp might could definitely be useful if you decide to go ret tree, things like this seem like common sense to me no?


and it is useless talent if you already have ret pally right? And that's exactly what I said, I never said the uselessness of that talent is set in stone for holy pallies, ONLY when you have ret pallies in the raid...

[Raptorg]

wow if you don't and if you have restodruid/propally in the raid, you'd clearly take pts out of imp dev and relocate it somewhere else. Imp might could definitely be useful if you decide to go ret tree, things like this seem like common sense to me no?


and it is useless talent if you already have ret pally right? And that's exactly what I said, I never said the uselessness of that talent is set in stone for holy pallies, ONLY when you have ret pallies in the raid...

You clearly implied it's a waste because "you almost always have a ret pally in your raid."
That implies it's not worth bothering even for those moment you don't happen to have that ret pally in your raid.

And yes, that's exactly what that comment implies.