Deathknight Tanking

[Squishie]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...n=Notsosquishy

I dinged this 2 weeks ago, I have been doing my best to learn about DK tanking through EJ/MMO and a number of other sites, but being perfectly honest. Their is more dross than useful information.

I would appreciate some feed back on what I can do to improve, this should be a little more direct than trying to sift through masses of bullshit for a few nugets to help me improve.

Issues that I currently know about:
Proffessions. I have just been trying to level them in between instances. I will put in a bit more and ding them to max this coming week I think.
Spec - The main issue here is corpse explosion I dropped a point into it for tanking Heroics, but feel i can drop this now for Necrosis.
Gems - I still have the odd Rare gem, which i was going to replace as i replaced gear. I didn't want to spend too much on Ilevel 200 gear.

Gearing wise I have Essence of Gossimer in my bags, which I tend to bench for heroics where the extra health pool wont make or break the run. But is it worth while using this when tanking Raids?

I can take the DK now to TOC10 raids as well as Ony10/25 VOA10/25. Those are the main things I have access to. TOC10 starting tomorrow, where I will be leading a mixed Alt/Main raid with my guild. Depending on if the patch hits this week I hope to add at least 10man HM Ulduar raids to the list.

Just looking for some feed back on the building blocks I currently have and mabye some direct links to sites that might be able to help me. I came to DKs very late and trying to absorb masses of info in a short time has been difficult. Thanks in advance for any help and advice.

[mhp]

I'd drop spell deflection & corpse explosion, get scent of blood instead, and possibly Hysteria. One point in necrosis isn't really noticable.

As for glyphs, I'd drop horn of winter or blood tap for rise ghoul.

[Skipboh]

sorry but you are wrong
blood dk tank doesnt need sob

not mandatory but useful

[mhp]

It's still more useful than spell deflection. But if SoB's not needed, improved icy touch is another decent candidate for 3 points.

(Been a long long time I've been blood, it probably shows. Especially since I'm trying to forget it :P)

[Squishie]

I'd drop spell deflection & corpse explosion, get scent of blood instead, and possibly Hysteria. One point in necrosis isn't really noticable.

As for glyphs, I'd drop horn of winter or blood tap for rise ghoul.

Thanks for the quick reply. Im really trying to learn more. Not just get advice which blindly adhere to. Why drop spell deflection. I assume its because most of TOC is melee attacks? How does that play out in Ulduar?. I play a hunter main and honestly this is all very very new not only a melee character but a tanking character. I was thinking about dropping the Corpse explosion point for Hysteria, is this a better use for the talent point if im not struggeling with threat ? I've had a bit of issue in 5mans but that was while using http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40406 . If with the new sword im having no threat issues will Hysteria net more overall dps for the raid than Necrosis ?

With scent of blood do you then use deathcoil more as a RP dump ? I find im currently not dodging/parrying enough to worry about not having enough RP for rune strikes. Does this change with later gearings? Really i know im asking you folks to find information thats been posted before. And im sorry for that. But I have been trying there is just far to much info thats bullshit or outdated to sift through first.

[mhp]

Thanks for the quick reply. Im really trying to learn more. Not just get advice which blindly adhere to. Why drop spell deflection. I assume its because most of TOC is melee attacks? How does that play out in Ulduar?.

Nope, it's not because TotC is mostly melee - it's because spell deflection is very, very weak. It only works against direct damage spells (not DoTs, nor AoE, nor splash), and ~25% chance to take ~45% less damage from something that's already not much in most cases isn't terribly amazing. I mean, stuff in TotC hit for what... 10-15k tops with spell? And then that's big. (Not counting Jaraxxus with buffs, which should be dispelled anyway).

I was thinking about dropping the Corpse explosion point for Hysteria, is this a better use for the talent point if im not struggeling with threat

Much better. Especially since CE won't grant you much threat when you need it - you need to have a corpse nearby, so it's basically only useful on trash, and the threat you gain from it is negligible. Hysteria on a decent physical dpser on the other hand (or even yourself) is much much more valuable.

I usually used it on myself if I had a good healer

If with the new sword im having no threat issues will Hysteria net more overall dps for the raid than Necrosis ?

Hysteria on a good DPSer will net you more DPS than Necrosis, imo. Certainly more than 1/5 necrosis.

With scent of blood do you then use deathcoil more as a RP dump ?

Yep, and rune strikes, but as you said, mostly more deathcoils.

Does this change with later gearings?

A bit, yeah. Better gear comes with more avoidance, which will result in more rune strike possibilities.

[Squishie]

Nope, it's not because TotC is mostly melee - it's because spell deflection is very, very weak. It only works against direct damage spells (not DoTs, nor AoE, nor splash), and ~25% chance to take ~45% less damage from something that's already not much in most cases isn't terribly amazing. I mean, stuff in TotC hit for what... 10-15k tops with spell? And then that's big. (Not counting Jaraxxus with buffs, which should be dispelled anyway).

Ok

Much better. Especially since CE won't grant you much threat when you need it - you need to have a corpse nearby, so it's basically only useful on trash, and the threat you gain from it is negligible. Hysteria on a decent physical dpser on the other hand (or even yourself) is much much more valuable.

I usually used it on myself if I had a good healer

Hysteria on a good DPSer will net you more DPS than Necrosis, imo. Certainly more than 1/5 necrosis.

I will be getting somewhat boosted through 10mans so it would probebly be a wise choice

Yep, and rune strikes, but as you said, mostly more deathcoils.

A bit, yeah. Better gear comes with more avoidance, which will result in more rune strike possibilities.

Is there a magical avoidance number currently where your RP generation without Scent of blood becomes too low to keep up with Runestrike? I would like to avoid dropping points into SoB if its just for the deathcoil spam. Which for threat I feel is a bit of a clunky mechanic.

Thanks for the replys, they are helping me build up more of a picture though. Spent far far to long with only 1 toon, can tell you everything about hunters, but even learning the simplest things about DK tanking seems to take forever

[Sulika]

I would:

Drop Spell Deflection.
Drop 1 point from Scent of Blood
Drop Corpse Explosion
Drop 1 point from Epidemic

Take 3/3 Scent of Blood.
Take 3/3 Improved Icy Touch.

Scent of Blood is fantastic as a tank, it keeps a very stead source of runic power flowing in. On a typical Anub'arak 10 man I gain about 300 runic power from scent of blood which is an extra 7 or 8 Death Coils. It also means you never need to miss a rune strike, have 25+ runic power to boost your Death Strike a lot more of the time giving even more threat and you are less likely to get caught with no runic power to use Icebound Fortitude or Anti-Magic Shell if you need them.

Improved Icy Touch is a very good mitigation talent and unless you are certain there will be someone else providing a 20% melee slow in your group you should always have it.

I would also replace that Glyph of Disease with a Glyph of Vampiric Blood as the 5 seconds extra duration on that is incredibly useful.

Your gems and enchants seem good for the most part, however with your 563 defense I would probably drop the 22 defense chest enchant and get the 275 health enchant instead. I would also replace the 2% threat +10 parry rating gloves enchant with an 18 stamina. At the risk of stating the obvious, you should be using epic gems in all slots and every gem you are using should either be 30 stamina or Something + 15 stamina.

Lastly an Essence of Gossamer is a better trinket choice than the Onyxia trinket so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go farm that.

Hope this helps.

[mhp]

You can drop 3 points into improved icy touch, if you don't want to drop them in SoB. Or even Virulence, so you can get close to the spell hit cap (IT & DC, so nothing to worry much about :P).

Or, you can get Rune Tap & Improved Rune tap for 4 points (but then you're dropping Hysteria aswell, or 1 point from another talent).

As for your other question: I can't recall having threat problems due to magical damage. Just pop AMS and boom, full runepower bar, and you can RS/DC to your hearts content.

[mhp]

Lastly an Essence of Gossamer is a better trinket choice than the Onyxia trinket so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to go farm that.

The Onyxia trinket is amazing. Plenty of avoidance on it, which is sweet, once you have enough HP to survive what you need to tank (and since he's getting boosted, I wouldn't worry about survival, as it's not nearly progress raids).

[billymont]

Or even Virulence, so you can get close to the spell hit cap (IT & DC, so nothing to worry much about :P).

and pestilence, dark command and death grip

[Harmacy]

The Onyxia trinket is amazing. Plenty of avoidance on it, which is sweet, once you have enough HP to survive what you need to tank (and since he's getting boosted, I wouldn't worry about survival, as it's not nearly progress raids).

No, just no. The onyxia trinket is bad enough for a Pally or Warrior, but for a Death Knight who already has crazy diminishing returns on their parry rating? No. Even the Brewfest trinkets provide more EH. The Ony trinket is only useful for an unhittable set for the Anub add tank.

As was stated earlier, Corpse Explosion is only useful on trash, and even then only when something is already dead, by which point you have already established aggro. Drop it. Spell Deflection is very underwhelming, drop it too.

You need need NEED 3 points in Improved Icy Touch. 6% slow is a huge amount, it adds up a lot over a long fight and results in a lot less damage taken. The only time you shouldn't get it, is if that debuff is guaranteed to be put up by a DPS Frost DK or something, who you can guarantee will always show up to raids, always be assigned to your target, and will never die before you do. In other words, never.

Sudden Doom is underwhelming for a Blood tank, especially since, in conditions where you're not fighting for aggro i.e. much of the time, you will be using two Death Strikes to help with self-healing rather than option for 4x Heart Strike.

Hysteria and Mark of Blood are nice, useful options that you should consider, but neither is mandatory.

I disagree with needing 3/3 Scent of Blood - one or two points is OK, but really you get enough RP from your rotation to keep Rune Strikes flowing, Death Coil is so weak for Blood (it's not like Frost or Unholy, where their RP dumps actually hit hard).

Definitely get Glyph of Vampiric Blood. It's incredible.

I would also pick up four points in Rune Tap/Improved Rune Tap. 20% heal on a 30 second CD is fantastic if you know when to time it.

As far as gear goes, if you're still o9ver 540 by a significant amount when you ditch the Ony trinket, I would replace some defense gems and enchants for more stamina and/or armor.

[hoegrinder]

This is what I use currently

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...ukthar&group=1

The only thing I'm considering removing is sudden doom for something like morbidity. The only reason I consider doing so now is because a) 2pc t10 and b) it seems many fights in ICC depend on controlling adds.

[TheTacoMan]

People still let DKs tank? I was under the assumption every guild had found a reliable War,pally combo by now.

[mhp]

No, just no. The onyxia trinket is bad enough for a Pally or Warrior, but for a Death Knight who already has crazy diminishing returns on their parry rating? No. Even the Brewfest trinkets provide more EH. The Ony trinket is only useful for an unhittable set for the Anub add tank.

It's BiS for avoidance set. EH is not the only thing to consider.

[Harmacy]

It's BiS for avoidance set. EH is not the only thing to consider.

Name ONE fight in ToC where you would use an avoidance set.

It may have the occasional use in ICC, but I highly doubt it would ever become part of a MT set.

[mhp]

Anub25 HC adds. Avoidance > EH there.

[Harmacy]

Anub25 HC adds. Avoidance > EH there.

I mentioned that in my post. And a DK should not be tanking those adds, you should get a block tank to do it.

[mhp]

Should or not, we can tank it. It's not even hard.

And when I do tank it, both myself and my healers prefer me having avoidance gear on. Much like they prefer the warrior/pally to have block gear on.

I don't if you think DKs shouldn't tank it - I did it, it wasn't hard. We can do it, and that's one example fight where avoidance gear is great. Northrend Beasts is another. I hope you're not saying we shouldn't tank that either.

[xeroxide]

I mentioned that in my post. And a DK should not be tanking those adds, you should get a block tank to do it.

i had the exact same experience as mhp. As a small guild of friends we had no pally/war tank... let alone combo. mind you it was only togc10 in this case, however none of us in guild were/are overgeared for the encounter. For the holidays, we didn't even have a shaman... cause ours had to go back home for the holidays which meant no wow. i specced into a spec you would probably say is suicide, dw tank with improved icy talons... believe it or not after trying so many attempts the previous week as blood, we got tribute to mad skills 10 man on our 3rd attempt the next week.

mhp is right abou anub25 hc adds, gotta give him that one. for everything else i use blood (i prefer blood's rotation myself) but avoidance tanking does have its merits.

effective health in general would be the way to go, but having the ony trinky for certain fights... heck for add tanking in general i would think.

@tacoman
i find your lack of faith disturbing!