3.3 [ENH] loot & BiS-setup

[Israfel]

Decided to total up the top items in the list + Black Bruise and the Seducer offhand, using Deathbringer's Will+Tiny Abomination in a Jar.

Agi: 175+183+136+102+128+120+183+128+102+102+102+84+78=1623
Stam: 144+144+107+80+107+107+144+107+102+102+102+84+78+78=1486
Int: 96+96+71+54+71+71+96+71=626
Hit: 88+55+62+59+85+44=393
Crit: 114+144+90+68+90+74+114+90+60+59=903
ArP: 46+71+68+167=352
AP: 212+212+165+120+149+181+212+165+120+120+120+135+88+72=2071
Haste: 80+88+63+63+68+60+65+52=539

We total with 20 sockets, 5 Red 5 Blue 9 Yellow and 1 Pris Belt(Add BS Gloves/Bracers, makes 22)

Totals without Enchants/Gems/Socket bonuses
Agi= 1623(19.48% Crit, 31.16% Dodge)
Stam= 1486
Int= 626(3.76% Spell Crit)
Hit= 11.99% Hit(Unsure about my calcs.)
Crit= 39.15%(19.48% From Agi, 19.67% From Crit Rating)
ArP Rating= 352(25.16% Armor Ignored(?))
AP= 4320(Totaling Agi+Int+AP)
Haste= 21.38%

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure these are all right.

[Applesaus]

Not sure if i ll go for this totem. Trinket mm or tier will be first i ll get badges for.
Not question for u shamans - i m in trouble i wonder if anubarak 25 normal weapon is better then gunship normal/ heroic axe with armor penetration
loosin 40 haste for those crit and unneeded arpen is kinda hard decision. what ya think?

I think sacrificing a bit of haste is ok for the heroic axe, the red socket and awesome stats sort of make up for that imo.

Slightly off topic, but I have a question about weapon imbues.

There's a couple of Enhance shamans on my server who I talk to a fair bit saying that Windfury/Windfury is better since patch 3.3. Is this now the case cos if it is I've not heard anything about it till now

NO, DO NOT DO THIS.

[FamilyGoat]

The i277 tokens do drop from these bosses. All loot is available on the armory. For example, here is Professor Putricide's 25H loot table: http://us.wowarmory.com/search.xml?fl[source]=dungeon&fl[dungeon]=icecrowncitadel25&fl[boss]=38431&fl[difficulty]=heroic&fl[type]=all&fl[usbleBy]=all&fl[rqrMin]=&fl[rqrMax]=&fl[rrt]=all&advOptName=none&fl[andor]=and&searchType=items&fl[advOpt]=none

(copy and paste since mmo doesnt want to have the whole link go, haha)

I happily stand corrected, thanks for the info. Good to know we won't have to wait til the very very end of heroic content to start enjoying heroic tier!

[Boboca]

Trinket:
...
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50355 emblem of frost x60
...

Why this trinket so good? Its better then http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47464 ? Or its just the ICC Loots?

[jswivel]

Why this trinket so good? Its better then http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47464 ? Or its just the ICC Loots?

I look at it like this, if you had 7x 20 haste gems and 1 20ap/10 haste gem and you got http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50355 you could replace all 8 gems with 40 ap gems and get 300 ap which is more static ap than http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47464 and its equip effect is a static 340 ap as long as your hitting something, which is less than Death's Choice but has alot better uptime (again if you can continue to hit something lol)

[Omanley]

i was asked this more than once now so i think it´s best to make it clear:

this thread only shows 3.3 items of ilvl 264 or higher ( with some exceptions )

trinkets are are a special case. meteors trail is one damn good trinket even in icc, same goes for death´s verdict/choice. there´s a great varity of trinkets and even a EJ-thread just about them. i´m not confident enough to evaluate the "worth" of trinkets in a list for 3.3 items, therefore i wont put any none-3.3 trinket in here. note that the order i posted my items are merely guesses.

good example would be http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50692/black-bruise/ , i listed it at fourth, because calculating made it´s proc seem pretty weak ( im not sure who´s math it was, but the 264lvl vers came out on a lvl similar to the counsil10man hm fist ).

this thread´s purpose is to give a quick easy view of what´s new with 3.3 AND a possible upgrade from 3.2.

[Boboca]

Thank you so much!

[aikouka]

i was asked this more than once now so i think it´s best to make it clear:

this thread only shows 3.3 items of ilvl 264 or higher ( with some exceptions )

I appreciate the work that you did with this, but with this remark, I don't see why you call this thread "3.3 [ENH] loot & BiS-setup" when it sounds more like a "New & Noteworthy in 3.3." I realize that trinkets are one of the few areas in which we tend to use older items, but in my opinion at least, a thread that claims to contain "BiS information" should include items that are BiS regardless of their origin. This is especially true when current numbers on EJ rank Comet's Trail + Herkuml War Token as the second best combo to Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull + Herkuml War Token.

Also, I disagree with ignoring Leather items. Even currently, I'm using heroic Acidmaw Boots (I don't really have access to 258 items ) as they provide the right amount of Expertise (I'm at 144) and you have to consider the fact that Expertise typically holds a very high EP value as long as your Expertise is below the dodge cap. Given that, a good amount of Expertise can far outweigh the attack power you lose from dropping intellect (if I remember correctly, the highest value I've ever seen for Intellect from my own simulations was around 1.5?).

But that's just my opinion on it all .

[Omanley]

I don't see why you call this thread "3.3 [ENH] loot & BiS-setup" when it sounds more like a "New & Noteworthy in 3.3."

1.) 3.3 loot because it´s 3.3 loot (duh :P )
2.) BiS-setup because anything dropping in 25man ( both normal and hc mode ) as well as 10man hc mode is bound to be an upgrade to tocg25 (purely ilvl-wise)

in other words: it´s a list that shows anything from ilvl 264 upwards while at the top of every itemslot bracket we have the "assumed" BiS item.

I realize that trinkets are one of the few areas in which we tend to use older items, but in my opinion at least, a thread that claims to contain "BiS information" should include items that are BiS regardless of their origin. This is especially true when current numbers on EJ rank Comet's Trail + Herkuml War Token as the second best combo to Heroic Whispering Fanged Skull + Herkuml War Token.

levva said the smartest way to evaluate a trinket would be to sim your gear without wearing trinkets and then simming it with them to compare the benefit. trinkets are the possibly "most shaky" items when it comes to changing gear, and this isn´t a theorycrafting thread. if you want to know wether or not trinket a or b is better for you or not, it´s up to your simming, not this thread. take the items linked in this thread and compare them with the older trinkets.

Also, I disagree with ignoring Leather items. Even currently, I'm using heroic Acidmaw Boots (I don't really have access to 258 items Sad) as they provide the right amount of Expertise (I'm at 144) and you have to consider the fact that Expertise typically holds a very high EP value as long as your Expertise is below the dodge cap. Given that, a good amount of Expertise can far outweigh the attack power you lose from dropping intellect (if I remember correctly, the highest value I've ever seen for Intellect from my own simulations was around 1.5?).

i don´t/didn´t have access to 258 ilvl items either, but was lucky enough to get the tocg10 mail boots, which are better than any non-258 pair of boots (including all leather boots)dropping in colloseum either way.

we get more out of mail in general because there are less itempoints wasted in stamina and are in intellect instead, which is not the worst stat, but way better than stamina. and considering your remark about expertise:

GODDAMNIT, socket it, you have no disadvantage in doing so, rather it´s the smartest thing you can do. 20 exp has the exact same statvalue than 40 ap or 20 haste, you do not lose anything. additionally, you are able to perfectly land on exactly 140 with 7 exp-gems or even less if your jc. also note that capping expertise with gems makes you much more flexible with gear.

sry i will remain stubborn in this regard: unless you post me example of 3.3 leathergear beating the shit out of same ilvl mailgear, i wont include it, as it´s not only stealing the gear of other classes, but suboptimal to our spec

[detramental]

going by EP values, what would be the best 4piece + non-tier piece combination?

aka, which tier piece should we reserve for the last upgrade (or not even buy)?

[Omanley]

gloves. should you have the ilvl258 breastplate from totgc25, getting breast last would also be an option.

[Jimmyx]

Added all items to Rawr and we can see that out BiS setup is :
HEAD : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51242
SHOULDERS : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51240
CHEST : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51244
LEGS : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51241
HANDS : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50619
WAIST : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51935
WRISTS : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50655
BOOTS : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50711
CLOAK : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50653
NECK : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50633
RING 1 : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50604
RING 2: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50402
TRINKET 1: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50343
TRINKET 2: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50355
MH : http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51876
OH: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50710
TOTEM: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50463
You gonna need 5 expertise gems if u are orc :>
What do u think about it ?
Of corse there can be more BiS items from Lich king but im not able to know his drops atm. Hopefully he will drop any MH for us.

[wordup]

Right I'm gonna jump this thread full stop and ask the following.

I can fully take in the fact that Herkuml War Token is sitting at LEAST in the top 5 BiS trinkets, since it is perfectly itemized for use and anyone saying otherwise really needs to sit down and look at things.
But despite the fact that Ilvl seems to be what most people are basing things on, and that a lot of people seem to endlessly discuss haste vs. AP, why are you all going on about the strength of Whispering Fanged Skull?
Compared to http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45609, it really, really doesn't seem to compare. Now, I can't honestly say I've sat down and worked the stuff out for the proc, but looking at it, 1100 AP, on a 2-1 conversion means it would have to be 1452 haste rating to be equal. Yes, I understand, different durations and procrates, and I don't personally know the simmed ICD on comet's trail, but really all these BiS lists showing death's choice and tiny abomination in a jar simming really high up, seem ridiculous to me.

I want to see definitive, serious proof that Comet's Trail isn't coming out as an extremely potent trinket. And don't give me the Ilvl argument, I had DST up until my full BiS sunwell loot and it still outperformed everything. Trail is itemised the same, and I want to see a genuine reason to not specifically seek out this trinket as a BiS piece, and unless Arthas starts dropping some perfect and amazing piece, I can't see myself finding truth in some of the trinkets that are popping up in these personalised "BiS" lists.




On another point, my BiS setup was *ALMOST* the same when I took a serious look at it. Some things I did change out however. Neck, I changed for http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51890
Which gave me the oppurtunity to change Ring to http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50678

Obviously my trinkets were slightly altered since I can't honestly find a reason as to why Whispering Fanged Skull outperforms Comet's Trail yet.

[Omanley]

happy new year, fella´s

@ jimmyx: thx for simming. two of your posted items do not show correctly, boots and 2nd trinket.

are you sure about your choices of mainhand and waist? http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/51893/gutbuster/ is same ilvl as http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51876 but with more interesting itemisation. is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51935 really good enough to beat http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/50688/n...stalkers-cord/ ? furthermore, http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50993 has the exact same stats as your posted belt, but with better gemslots (2x ap/haste > 1x ap, 1x ? )

edit: ah, i see, you took abomination for orc racial, nevermind ^^ as a troll i´d rather take gutbuster ^^.

@ wordup: this is no theorycrafting thread. please refrain from long posts about BiS trinkets. go for the elistist jerks trinket thread instead.

also, it´s not 1452 haste rating, but 1452 attackpower i assume you´re talking about. you have also failed to look at the duration of comets trail ( 10 s ) vs wfs (15 s). alone with that we could adjust it to 726 / 1.5 = 484 haste/968 attackpower, and as you see, wfs is higher than that. the passive bonus is also higher in budget points.

[Flashbomba]

Just an idea: to use the 95 frost emblem leather chest ( http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50972 ) for the +92 expertise, along with the 4 T10 items, due to the lack of expertise on these?

[Gray_Matter]

sry, no leather will appear in this list unless it proves to be a major upgrade over any mail counterpart in that ilvl range. http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51885 was implemented for a reason and im happy to not have to roll on other classes gear anymore. furthermore, expertise is easy to cap since ulduar. with epic gems and especially with jewelcraftergems, you shouldn´t think about wearing leather gear just for the expertise.

The reason I suggested it is that the item is crafted.

[SolSphere]

Omanley,

That list poste by Jimmy is a RAWR redention of what we can currently see in the program. I got the exact same results he did. It sets it up having 25 exp. I forget how much hit. RAWR also favors haste over atk.

The program also cares not for ilvl. It is unbiased on it. Right now it is dedicating WFS up there. I have not compared it to comet, but comet is sorta high in the list (on RAWR) if I remember correctly. It's not top notch though. Comet has a 15% proc chance while a lot of the trinkets listed higher than it have a 35% proc chance. TAiaJ is not in RAWR atm.

Remeber that Rawr will try to balance things as well. It also depends on when you select what piece to go in each slot. Say i pick a high exp piece and put it in. It will gear around it when selecting piece by piece. If I go over exp cap it will start suggesting piece that have less exp. So the way Jimmy did his list (I'm assuming not with the optimizer as that would require putting in way too much information for it to be accurate) could possibly be flawed. It requires playing with the piece a bit more to be a defident list (keep in mind I said MAY be flawed. Does not mean it is).

The simmed out DPS for the list Jimmy has is 11K+ DPS. I'm at work and will edit in the actual numbers I got from 10 attempts of simming when I get home.

[Miranger]

Ive'd been trying to figure out if after a certain point stacking haste can be bad if your swing speed is below 1.5

[Omanley]

Deathbringer's Will (Deathbringer's Will)
We have taken a closer look at this trinket and the stats that it uses aren't the best for some classes/specs. We are looking at making some updates to improve the random stats it picks from.

[...] Just to try and avoid confusion, every class will still get 3 procs.

would they change arp/agi to haste/crit... holymoly

i have high hopes, maybe it will be our BiS trinket.

[xap]

Oh god i hope so, but it sounds like they are more concerned about warriors and hunters and also,

If armor pen isn’t attractive for certain players, then a trinket that procs armor pen sometimes may also not be attractive but that's the nature of an item like this.

Why do i feel like that is directed right at us...