1. #1

    Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Hi guys, looking at the typical (agility) ilvl 264 choices of weapons for a feral tank we have :
    - Hersir's greatspear 10 heroic (hit/arpen) - 123 stam + 3 gem slots (total 213 stam)
    - Shaft of glacial ice 10 heroic (hit/crit) - 146 stam + 2 gem slots (total 206 stam)
    - Bloodfall 25 normal (haste/crit) - 162 stam + 2 gem slots (total 222 stam)
    - Distant land 25 normal (haste/crit) - 138 stam + 2 gem slots (total 198 stam)

    It seems pretty clear to me that the 277 version of Bloodfall will be BiS (273 stam), but I'm pretty sure I won't see Blood Queen Lana'Thel die in 25-man heroic mode for a bit of time.

    The thing is, I currently have equipped Fordragon Blades from ToGC10 (ilvl 245, 155stam + 2 gems, haste/arpen). While browing the available weapons, none have seemed to me as a HUGE upgrade in terms of Stamina (Hersirs, Shaft and Distant Land are downgrades, Bloodfall is only a slight upgrade, even if the FAP is hugely increased).

    What I'd like to know is about the Strength Maces, especially those two :
    - Cryptmaker 25 normal (hit/arpen) - 185stam + 2 gems (total 245 stam)
    - Oxheart 10 heroic (crit/expertise) - 185stam + 3 gems (total 275 stam)

    Those two are not designed to be feral tanking weapons, but they do appear good options to me, especially Oxheart. As a matter of fact, it brings 50 more stamina (800ish HP) that Bloodfall, as well as expertise instead of haste.

    I know, I know, I'm gonna lose 100-150ish agility (1.5-2% dodge), but I'd like to know what the druid community thinks about it, if you think it's insanity, or if on the contrary you already decided "I'm gonna go get that oxheart".
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  2. #2

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    as you said, they are not designed for feral tanking (kitty dps is another ballgame tho!) and gaining that little bit of stamina while losing that much agility is not worth it. if you go with what rawr suggests; (H) Bloodfall, (H) Distant Land, Bloodfall, Distant Land in terms of BiS (according to my char, but given the stats it's probably all around bis, unless you need hit and you can get shaft of glacial ice heroic version). stamina is important, but not that important

  3. #3

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Forgot to say Str also increases the amount of damage absorbed by SD.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  4. #4

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    I know, I know, I'm gonna lose 100-150ish agility (1.5-2% dodge), but I'd like to know what the druid community thinks about it, if you think it's insanity, or if on the contrary you already decided "I'm gonna go get that oxheart".
    Don't forget the AGI scales well with talents, kings etc; and that you're also losing crit (and thus SD procs) and armor in addition to dodge. STR weapons can sometimes be good as threat weapons, but if that's not a pressing issue, live and breathe AGI, IMO. Bloodfall is shmexy. :-)

  5. #5

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    Forgot to say Str also increases the amount of damage absorbed by SD.
    You're gaining 80.5 damage absorbed using Oxheart over distant land, but losing about 2-2.5% dodge and 374 armor or about .2% less damage taken (assuming i did my math right >.> ) which is, i believe, more than what savage defense gives. and as tycho said, the agility numbers scale with kings

  6. #6

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    INSANITY

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire Syph's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    I took the liberty of making a comparison chart for an easy overview

    I left out your original weapon for a few reasons - mostly because comparing more then 6 items causes the banner ad to go through the text at my resolution (1280x1024) but also because I feel that they are all certainly better then Fordragon Blades (+550 FAP upgrade alone makes them all worth it!)

    With the future in mind, I really, really favor the ones with +hit/exp considering it gives you some freedom in other equipment slots... As for the strength vs. agi weapons; its all about how much you value stamina vs. dodge I guess...

    for example Bloodfall vs. Oxheart in bearform when including talents + BoK;

    Bloodfall:
    +3368 Health
    +4.02% Dodge
    +0% Expertise
    +4.66% Crit
    +2.81% Haste
    +3542 AP

    Oxheart:
    +4497 Health
    +0% Dodge
    +10.1 Expertise
    +2.71% Crit
    +0% Haste
    +3763 AP

    Quite a big chunk of dodge you lose there though :\

    Currently using Distant Land but I'll be chasing Hersir's Greatspear

  8. #8
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    Forgot to say Str also increases the amount of damage absorbed by SD.
    The problem with str and SD damage is that it's not worth stacking. SD is a great bonus for the AP/str we already have on our gear, but at only 0.25 damage absorbed per point of AP, you're much better off with agility.

    Having a slight stam downgrade on your weapon this tier isn't a big loss. The value of a weapon is much more than that -- the increase in agi, crit, haste, and ap easily make up for it. If you feel like you're really stunted by losing the stam, pick it up in gems in the rest of your gear.

  9. #9

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Syph
    for example Bloodfall vs. Oxheart in bearform when including talents + BoK;

    Bloodfall:
    +3368 Health
    +4.02% Dodge
    +0% Expertise
    +4.66% Crit
    +2.81% Haste
    +3542 AP

    Oxheart:
    +4497 Health
    +0% Dodge
    +10.1 Expertise
    +2.71% Crit
    +0% Haste
    +3763 AP

    Quite a big chunk of dodge you lose there though :\

    Currently using Distant Land but I'll be chasing Hersir's Greatspear
    Well, don't forget about the DRs. When I unequip Fordragon Blades (118 agil) I lose 1.72% (on my char sheet), so the 4.02% dodge you refer to should in fact be around 2.0-2.5ish. Yes, that's still a bunch.

    EDIT : Yeah, forgot the Season 8 tier 1 weapon , could very well be a nice one once again
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Syph's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    Well, don't forget about the DRs.
    Yeah true, just checked and Bloodfall adds 2.26% dodge (counting talents + raidbuffs) ^^

  11. #11

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    you shouldnt use strenght you loose too much armor and dodge not getting the agility, and strength does work for kittys should you have extremely high arp and 75% crit (FB crit cap) wich is nearly impossible to reach (if it isnt)


    Thanks to Stanton Biston for the amazing sig!

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelith
    you shouldnt use strenght you loose too much armor and dodge not getting the agility, and strength does work for kittys should you have extremely high arp and 75% crit (FB crit cap) wich is nearly impossible to reach (if it isnt)
    huh?

    besides I didn't get what exactly you want to tell ... strength weapons are not for tanking. and for hardmode25 weapons, bloodfall has only 2 stamina less than cryptmaker, so EH is practically the same, if you aim for an max-eh-weapon. It's even more at bloodfall, because the armor from agility also counts in for EH.

    so as a tank, never ever go for a strength weapon if you have a compareable agi weapon.
    for kitty it might be different at a certain gear level, but that's not the topic.

  13. #13

    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by xebtria
    so as a tank, never ever go for a strength weapon if you have a compareable agi weapon.
    I think this sums it up !

    As I currently have Fordragon Blades equipped, if 264-Cryptmaker/264-Oxheart drops before 264-Bloodfall/264-Distant Land does, then should I "roll a need" on it, if "real" strength melee dps don't need it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark
    I dont know why everyone expects thing to be rebuilt after a cataclysm. Last time i checked, earthquakes dont fix roofs.

  14. #14
    Miss Doctor Lady Bear Sunshine's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Asgard
    As I currently have Fordragon Blades equipped, if 264-Cryptmaker/264-Oxheart drops before 264-Bloodfall/264-Distant Land does, then should I "roll a need" on it, if "real" strength melee dps don't need it ?
    I would say no, unless it's purely for threat reasons. There's no substitute for the amount of agi on Fordragon Blades.

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Re: Tanking feral, Strength weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Syph
    I left out your original weapon for a few reasons - mostly because comparing more then 6 items causes the banner ad to go through the text at my resolution (1280x1024)
    i am at 1024 myzelf and i see what u mean lol :P
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