Top dps being the mangle bitch

[raxin]

I am having a few arguements with my guild of my dps is being sub par as kitty dps, but my arguement, is i am the mangle bitch for the raid, in turn complicating my rotation. Last 25man surfang fight i had 80+ uptime on all my bleeds and managed 8.6kdps, I could see myself pulling out maybe another 300-400 dps out of that.

Just curious has anybody seen a mangle bitch do 9.5k+ dps, i don't think it's possible in the current gear.

[Nassam]

in turn complicating my rotation.

i don't really find it harder... just replace a shred or a rake by a mangle sometimes is so very difficult !

but i aggre it being quite a "burden" dps wise.

[Fojos]

It is, I hope you're not ignoring shreds only because you're supposed to keep mangles up. :P
Keeping mangle up is actually only a loss of a few hundred dps.
I usually have to do mangle, because other feral druids seem to ignore it and there are never any arms warriors in the raids I join, and only thing I notice is that I can't always get 3 shreds off per rip.

[Deleted]

Highest mangle bitch i could find was this one: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...28&e=2730#Redx

[teddabear]

I am having a few arguements with my guild of my dps is being sub par as kitty dps, but my arguement, is i am the mangle bitch for the raid, in turn complicating my rotation. Last 25man surfang fight i had 80+ uptime on all my bleeds and managed 8.6kdps, I could see myself pulling out maybe another 300-400 dps out of that.

Just curious has anybody seen a mangle bitch do 9.5k+ dps, i don't think it's possible in the current gear.

It's not you, feral is having issues. Rake has scaled poorly, even the 4pc T10 won't make it as good as it was when you hit 80 but it will help a lot. Feral white damage scales poorly compared to the other dual wieders. Bleeds aren't getting any benefit from ArP. Crit cap problems are probably already hurting you if you have items proccing agility, especially if you aren't hit and expertise capped. I'm assuming you don't have your 4 pc yet. Ask them to be patient until you do and hope that Blizzard realizes feral could use a little help. My experience agrees with your 5% estimate for having to Mangle although the calculators show it as less. I don't think they correctly model GCD collsions.

[The Cat]

It's not you, feral is having issues.

Just because it's not as easy to faceroll top dps as it was in Ulduar does not mean feral is having issues. It just widens the gap between good ferals and ones that don't deserve a raiding spot.

[spw]

It's possible, I haven't been below 9k for Saurfang since the first week.

I'm stacking arp to around 1250 without DBW and I've dropped rake until I get my 4pc. I'm leaning towards working in more FB's at the cost of a slightly lower rip uptime.

SF: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=3871&e=4109
FG: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/o...?s=5194&e=5482

[Biznick]

i don't really find it harder... just replace a shred or a rake by a mangle sometimes is so very difficult !

but i aggre it being quite a "burden" dps wise.

That'd be true if Mangle weren't an absoultely necessary debuff needed for personal and raid wide DPS, which needs to be strived for 95% uptime.

Manglebotting rarely lets you blow FB, especially with the loss of 2pc T9.

It's not you, feral is having issues. Rake has scaled poorly, even the 4pc T10 won't make it as good as it was when you hit 80 but it will help a lot. Feral white damage scales poorly compared to the other dual wieders. Bleeds aren't getting any benefit from ArP. Crit cap problems are probably already hurting you if you have items proccing agility, especially if you aren't hit and expertise capped. I'm assuming you don't have your 4 pc yet. Ask them to be patient until you do and hope that Blizzard realizes feral could use a little help. My experience agrees with your 5% estimate for having to Mangle although the calculators show it as less. I don't think they correctly model GCD collsions.

This is true. Feral druids and Enhance shammies aren't lookin so hot right now. Though thats not to say weren't not competitive if played correctly. I'm consistently top 3 in my guild.

[getefix]

That'd be true if Mangle weren't an absoultely necessary debuff needed for personal and raid wide DPS, which needs to be strived for 95% uptime.

Manglebotting rarely lets you blow FB, especially with the loss of 2pc T9.

It actually doesn't make much of a difference. Mangle uses less energy than shred so you'll generate combo points faster, but you may not be able to get 3 shreds in to extend your rip by a full 6 seconds. FB is a luxury imo.

This is true. Feral druids and Enhance shammies aren't lookin so hot right now. Though thats not to say weren't not competitive if played correctly. I'm consistently top 3 in my guild.

Arcane mages, DKs, and mut rogues are really giving me a hard time on the meters.

[Sunshine]

I was playing with Rawr last night, and according to that, I'm supposed to be able to pull 10k while doing my own mangles. I'm using 2t9 and no t10 gear (because that's gemmed and enchanted for tanking), with a random mix of other 245/251/264 off-set pieces, plus MJR and DMC:G.

Of course, especially with the fights requiring movement / target switching / etc, it's never going to actually happen. Maybe the closest would be Saurfang, but even if you're standing still then, it's likely that other regular boss debuffers are busy doing other things.

If you think the manglebotting is a huge factor, maybe you can convince a warrior to spec arms for one raid and see if there's a difference?

[Biznick]

It actually doesn't make much of a difference. Mangle uses less energy than shred so you'll generate combo points faster, but you may not be able to get 3 shreds in to extend your rip by a full 6 seconds. FB is a luxury imo.

FB is definitly a luxury, and its something thats only used every other Haley's Comet. As for Mangle making it quicker to generate CP's I'd have to disagree.

I suppose it makes up for one shred every 10 times you apply mangle, saving you ~3 seconds (accounting for TF, EPS regen, and 2T10) of downtime waiting for energy, but that's not something I factor in when I Manglebitch :P

[Cheezee]

Unholy DKs and mut rogues are really giving me a hard time on the meters.

This. Stupid rogues tricksing each other instead of me. >

[Ruan]

This. Stupid rogues tricksing each other instead of me. >

The one time we raided with only one rogue was amazingly awesome for my e-peen.

[Cheezee]

The one time we raided with only one rogue was amazingly awesome for my e-peen.

The last time I raided with only one rogue I got destroyed by icehowl. But yeah, the e-peen was bulging that day. ;D

[Myth]

I have the exact opposite problem. I'm a feral MT for my guild and we have an Arms warrior with 100% attendance. Our raids are a feral cat's dream, yet recruiting a good one is damn near impossible. We've had 1 cat since ICC hit and he only did 7k dps. Now we have zero cats in our raids.

[Biznick]

I have the exact opposite problem. I'm a feral MT for my guild and we have an Arms warrior with 100% attendance. Our raids are a feral cat's dream, yet recruiting a good one is damn near impossible. We've had 1 cat since ICC hit and he only did 7k dps. Now we have zero cats in our raids.

We'll we have 3 and 1 bear. Come take one away from me ><

[Cryless]

It actually doesn't make much of a difference. Mangle uses less energy than shred so you'll generate combo points faster, but you may not be able to get 3 shreds in to extend your rip by a full 6 seconds. FB is a luxury imo.
Arcane mages, DKs, and mut rogues are really giving me a hard time on the meters.

what's a feral druid?

[Myth]

We'll we have 3 and 1 bear. Come take one away from me ><

Sounds like a plan. Need a Hunter or Ele shaman? We have plenty.

[Paskgotsheal]

wow we need 1 of each of those.

BUT yeah you can do good dps as a mangle bitch, look i'm number 1 in the world on blood queen 10 on world of logs (not just ferals either, overall)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...7thel/10N/dps/


Don't think we're having any problems at all, just a simple l2p issue... I even got the festergut25 feral record this week without having my 4pc t10 yet or DBW (doesn't drop) or hysteria or tricks. So it's def a l2play/gear issue.

[Biznick]

Sounds like a plan. Need a Hunter or Ele shaman? We have plenty.

Hmm, I'll trade you one kitty for one hunter. Got any good Enhance shammies? :P

wow we need 1 of each of those.

BUT yeah you can do good dps as a mangle bitch, look i'm number 1 in the world on blood queen 10 on world of logs (not just ferals either, overall)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...7thel/10N/dps/


Don't think we're having any problems at all, just a simple l2p issue... I even got the festergut25 feral record this week without having my 4pc t10 yet or DBW (doesn't drop) or hysteria or tricks. So it's def a l2play/gear issue.

Very nice mayne, I was shooting to up my records this week but we had REALLY bad server lag tuesday. I really can't figure out why some kitties do more than others, other than hysteria/tot, when I probably has liek the best uptimes in thee world and very competitive gear. I was sitting 3rd on rotface 25 when we logged it a couple weeks ago, I think I got shot down to 25th or something since then. I'm pretty sure I'm still sitting 15th on Anub ToGC though.

If you decide to look up my last Wol report you'll notice Toc 25 was pretty bad. I was letting my friend practice on my kitty since I might not be raiding as much anymore.