Elemental vs Enhance for 3.3

[Vargarii]

Wall of text.

Please understand that you are including cooldowns in your spell count, and that is not a reliable spell count.


The spells people are talking about when saying enh shaman has a large priority queue are Flame Shock, Earth Shock, lightning bolt, Chain lightning(situational), Storm strike, lava lash, magma totem, and fire nova. These all have no cooldown, or a very short cooldown/refresh rate. If we were to include longer cooldowns like sham rage, lightning shield refresh, glove enchant(there are MANY enh engineers), wolves, ele, etc. we'd have a list of 12-15ish spells we claimed to use regularly depending on the player.

I understand you don't want people underestimating your class/spec, but the priority difference between ele and enh is fact. Your descriptions didn't really add much to the general perception of what an ele shaman does, either. So it seems rather wasted to have such a long wall of text to defend the ele priority system, when you really didn't add much to it.

/edit for clarity, was replying in a rush while at work.

[TheTieThatBinds]

Please understand that you are including cooldowns in your spell count, and that is not a reliable spell count.


The spells people are talking about when saying enh shaman has a large priority queue are Flame Shock, Earth Shock, lightning bolt, Chain lightning(situational), Storm strike, lava lash, magma totem, and fire nova. These all have SHORT cooldowns, as in seconds rather than minutes. If we were to include longer cooldowns like sham rage, lightning shield refresh, glove enchant(there are MANY enh engineers), wolves, ele, etc. we'd have a list of 12-15ish spells we claimed to use regularly depending on the player.

I understand you don't want people underestimating your class/spec, but the priority difference between ele and enh is fact. Your descriptions didn't really add much to the general perception of what an ele shaman does, either. So it seems rather wasted to have such a long wall of text to defend the ele priority system, when you really didn't add much to it.

Sorry to have included EM and Berserking, then 8 spells in the rotations

[Vargarii]

Sorry to have included EM and Berserking, then 8 spells in the rotations

I'll give you that you use more than 3-4 spells. But I'll also ask that you understand why the enh posters are biased in the manner that they are. You admit yourself that there are periods of spell spamming between your spells, but the enh priority is ever changing. You never use the same ability twice, and you can expect to hit all of your abilities at least once in a given 15 second or so period. They use all those spells at all times for max dps, rather than being thrown in when able to boost dps given certain situations.

This difference in style is what causes the players to view ele as a turret, or as easy, because they are so used to the hectic gcd hopping of enh. I will agree with you that for every class, there is usually more to max dps than the general priority/rotation, but when people speak outside their spec, they very rarely speak max dps, and this leads to the biased opinions of other players.

[Durandro]

Enhancement isn't just about using more buttons. Its about keeping tabs on dots, procs and stacks as well. Keeping an eye on Flameshock, MSW, SS charges, Magma Totem... Combined with the usual looking out for void zones, aggro management, staying in melee range during movement fights and your small mana pool you've got a pretty complicated job.

Also if you want to bring absolute top noche damage potential you need to do something Elemental never needs to do: bring pet food!

[Kinettik]

For you people who say Elemental is just a 3 spell rotation, and thats it haven't really played elemental. Its WAAAAY more than that. I dont know about you other guys, but I use rougly, not including totems, 10 spells, while keeping the whole FS, LvB, LB rotation going, all 3 of those being included with the 10 spells.

You cant include refreshing totems, racials or Eng CDs as a "Rotation". They are CDs, you use them when avail, not in a set timing. Please show me these 10 spells you use beacuse i use 3-4 depending on the fight/situtation. FS, LvB, LB/CL.

2. On Saurfang, I place my totems directly behind the boss so everyone is able to benefit from my totems, and the beasts get hit by my searing totem(we always have a demo lock, gives higher SP buff). I do my whole LB, EM&Berserking spiel, cast FS, LvB, and LB until it wears off, and by then, beasts are about 5-10 secs away so i just do the normal rotation until they pop. Once they pop, i cast CL, since our CL is the only spell that doesn't get the negative effects of the AoE buff the beasts have, so you get maximum damage on them. The start running to you, you pop Earthbind so they get rooted, and u run a safe distance while using a shock that is off CD, Frost shock is usually what I use to make sure they are slowed. If they get too close before they are dead, thunderstorm and knock them back, and then rinse and repeat. I do make sure searing is up by boss and pop Fire Nova when i can to get more DPS on the boss, and the minuscule damage u get on beasts. To get more DPS, when theres a little over 2 min left in the fight, ill pop Fire Elemental, which will give you another 1k DPS. When it is all said and done, a well-geared shaman can do 9k DPS on that fight, if not more.

Frost shock isnt in your rotaion, you use it as a "save" or form of CC. Also, id like to see you try this on Heroic. EB and FS wont help much (if at all) and TS is on a CD such that its only up every other Beasts spawn.

Dont try to overcomplicate Elemental, its a "faceroll" class but can still put out good numbers if your not a mouth-breather.

[SkyBlueAri]

I like both, but I'm finding Enh to be a global cooldown HELL

It's insane :S!

So true. Bloody haste. Why does our rotation hav to be so speedy. I dont think ive ever done a fight and had to just sit there and auto swing for more then a few seconds before something comes off CD. Enhance is more exciting imo. But really its about wat u prefer. For instacne ive been playing a boomkin, hunter, mage for the past few months and so ive made my druid feral/feral my shammy enhance/resto and my pally ret/prot. Hopefully ill grow out of this melee phase of my wow life.

[Vargarii]

So true. Bloody haste. Why does our rotation hav to be so speedy. I dont think ive ever done a fight and had to just sit there and auto swing for more then a few seconds before something comes off CD. Enhance is more exciting imo. But really its about wat u prefer. For instacne ive been playing a boomkin, hunter, mage for the past few months and so ive made my druid feral/feral my shammy enhance/resto and my pally ret/prot. Hopefully ill grow out of this melee phase of my wow life.

I've never even had that long, I would love a moment to blink and take a deep breath.

[SkyBlueAri]

I've never even had that long, I would love a moment to blink and take a deep breath.

Yeh ino right. Something is always waiting to be pressed. I think they will buff enhancements spells so melee will hit for about the same and all the other spells will hit for more so we dont hav to rely on us putting them ALL together to make good dps. Its a tricky one to balance out. See although feral is just as hard, but for different reasons. There is more pooling of energy to make room for the right spell to be cast (rip/fr/fb etc). Whilst enhance is more on mashing every spell (u know wat i mean). God its a bloody mess. Cant wait to see wat blizz will change with it.

[twinkleblur]

this is a bit of a question...elemental has about the same many buttons to press as an enchancement shaman. but heres the trick i love...if timed right? lightningbolt, chain lightning, and ,flame shock can hit a target at the same time
following up with LB you do some pretty nice dps. ur rotation flows so theres no down time unless ur moving, a good ele shammy will move as little as possible to maximize dps.

[whowherewhat?]

this is a bit of a question...elemental has about the same many buttons to press as an enchancement shaman. but heres the trick i love...if timed right? lightningbolt, chain lightning, and ,flame shock can hit a target at the same time
following up with LB you do some pretty nice dps. ur rotation flows so theres no down time unless ur moving, a good ele shammy will move as little as possible to maximize dps.

This is more burst than dps. over time it ends up being the same damage done

[Omanley]

1.) earthshock 2.) flameshock 3.) mswx5 lighnting bolt or mswx5 chain lighnting ( two or more targets )
4.) stormstrike 5.) lava lash 6.) lighnting shield 7.) magma totem/fire elemental 8.) fire nova 9.) shamanistic rage
10.) feral spirit

with cataclysm, expect to add lavaburst to maelstrom, unleash weapon, and possibly more.

and ofc resetting your totems whenever movement comes into play.

im engineering, so i also throw my bombs between gcd´s, and ofc hsa´s together with sr. ^^

[TheTieThatBinds]

You cant include refreshing totems, racials or Eng CDs as a "Rotation". They are CDs, you use them when avail, not in a set timing. Please show me these 10 spells you use beacuse i use 3-4 depending on the fight/situtation. FS, LvB, LB/CL.

I wasn't even putting totems in my spell rotation, i took my racials out, and Im a JC/LWer. Im just making a point that, for the Max DPS Ele Sham, we dont have a set rotation we go by like Enh does(when somethings off GCD we pop it,generally speaking), Shock and Awe fixes the entire problem with that from what I hear also.

We have to judge when to use certain shocks, when we can squeeze another Lightning Bolt out, whether we should reapply FS or use another Damaging spell/shock, which AoE we should use for which fight, when to interrupt/purge. But then again, generally speaking, almost all Ele sham use 3 main spells, FS, LB, and LvB, so its all dependant on the players gamestyle. Max DPS players will play with a custom rotation based on the basic FS, LvB, LB rotation, and the others who just get by, do JUST the basic rotation.

[Kinettik]

I wasn't even putting totems in my spell rotation, i took my racials out, and Im a JC/LWer. Im just making a point that, for the Max DPS Ele Sham, we dont have a set rotation we go by like Enh does(when somethings off GCD we pop it,generally speaking), Shock and Awe fixes the entire problem with that from what I hear also.

We have to judge when to use certain shocks, when we can squeeze another Lightning Bolt out, whether we should reapply FS or use another Damaging spell/shock, which AoE we should use for which fight, when to interrupt/purge. But then again, generally speaking, almost all Ele sham use 3 main spells, FS, LB, and LvB, so its all dependant on the players gamestyle. Max DPS players will play with a custom rotation based on the basic FS, LvB, LB rotation, and the others who just get by, do JUST the basic rotation.

I agree, but my point was we only have 3-4 spells in our "rotation" which btw is pretty much "set it and forget it". The "Basic" rotation as you call it is what all Shamans use, the only varriation of it comes on movement where you may not get your same number of LBs in before a LvB. And what other shock are you using? Unless your on LDW the answer should never be anything other than FS. But again, all the spells you mentioned are just extras for certain rare cases, never ones that are in our "Rotation", for that we have 3-4, period.

[Poppasan]

I played ele during Ulduar but I just got bored of it. So I changed to enhancement and I started doing some really nice dps and never got bored rly Ele... FS, LvB, LB,LB,LB,LB,LVB and so on. But enh is just actually a little complex, I sometimes have hard time doing this priority system. Then again it's really easy since I've understood enh spec mechanics. but this is just my 2 cents

[Tendae]

Well...Pretty much as long as enhancement doesn't have to move a lot, it'll surpass elemental in damage. Tho, this is based on my ICC experience, in which there really isn't any fight that would be melee and caster friendly at the same time. But based to my damage in meleefriendly fights, and our eleshamans in casterfriendly fight, it seems enha just slightly gets upper hand (we are also roughly equal in gear levels).

[Deleted]

A good enh shaman can handle any class because they run one of the most hecktic priority ques.

only spec i can come up with thats "harder" is feral cat pre-60sec-mangle

enhancement is great if u can master it, shame there is so many that got gear but simply lack the skill to melt faces

[Vargarii]

I wasn't even putting totems in my spell rotation, i took my racials out, and Im a JC/LWer. Im just making a point that, for the Max DPS Ele Sham, we dont have a set rotation we go by like Enh does(when somethings off GCD we pop it,generally speaking), Shock and Awe fixes the entire problem with that from what I hear also. .

Enh doesn't have a set anything. We have a priority system of what does the most dps. Shock and awe isn't meant to autoplay this game, you are severely underestimating enh, and from your posts, it sounds as if you haven't played it.

1.) earthshock 2.) flameshock 3.) mswx5 lighnting bolt or mswx5 chain lighnting ( two or more targets )
4.) stormstrike 5.) lava lash 6.) lighnting shield 7.) magma totem/fire elemental 8.) fire nova 9.) shamanistic rage
10.) feral spirit

Take these abilities, and at any given second know what does the most dps, and hit it. If it's not up, know which of the remaining abilites do the most dps and hit that.

I don't use shock and awe, because it doesn't mesh well with my playstyle, there are many like me, and many that use shock and awe as well.

Every post I read from you sounds like some futile attempt to make ele harder and enh easier. While I say no class is hard, and that people usually are biased because of the general view of a spec based on limited play, I've played all the shaman specs quite a bit, and the battle to make ele as challenging as enh is futile. They are two very different things, and one takes more work. Period.

All this talk hasn't even taken in to account the difference in theory crafting between classes, as enh is pretty much the most involved in gear and stat changes. Read up on what all is involved in maxing your dps from a single gem or piece of gear change for enh, and you'll understand.

Anyway, I'm done with this part of it, it's taking this thread way off topic.

I still stick with my previous post to the OP and he'll have to make his decision based on how he enjoys playing.

[Chitzu]

There's a bunch of things that isn't correct in the posts regarding Elemental Shamans, for Enhancement: I'm clueless, i don't play it neither do i theorycraft about it.

However, Elemental:

Elemental is one of the speccs that's easy to play, but hard to get good at. This doesn't just include our rotation which is highly depending on our current Haste value, it's also the gearing part.

Rotation:

The rotation at high level of gear is basically: FS > LvB > LBx5-6 > LvB, rince and repeat. This does only apply to Patchwork similar fights, not fights with movements.

When movement comes in as well there's a bunch of things to think of.

Was my Flame shock boosted by the haste value i had at the point when i casted it? If not: Renew it, If: Cast Frost shock.

Can i get a LvB in to renew the FS before it falls off (4-set Bonus)? Option 1: Is the Flame shock hasted? if so, cast LvB to renew it. Option 2: If not hasted, renew it, or cast Frost shock if the CD will be up before you can stop moving´.

Where's my ToW / Searing Totem / Fire Elemental?: Do i have time to Fire Nova before i can stop running so i don't waste a Global? If Not: Go back to Flame shock Point and see if you can renew Flame Shock or not.

Do i have time to cast another LB before LvB is up without clipping the CD? If not: A) Renew FS if needed. B) Cast a CL (Mostly if you have to move and wont have time to cast another LB and LvB)

Along with this, there's a bunch of things to keep track of: Not clipping the FS with LvB, always staying making sure that your rotation is correct with your current haste, CD timing for maximum DPS etc etc, too much to bring up.

Itemization and Gearing:

As we all know (atleast the Elemental Shamans) the itemization as it goes for Mail pieces is poorly made, not only for Elemental, but to a certain extend for Resto shamans as well. However, this leads to some thoughts about what pieces you should get for your optimal set (It will include Cloth pieces if you really wanna min/max your DPS), Compare stats, at what haste can you stop focus and rather get some crit, at what point do you have too much crit compared to Haste, when would you basically stop gmeming for haste and go full SP? (12SP/10 haste gems that is.)

Simply put: There takes little to nothing to play an Elemental shaman if you want to be casual with it, to min/max and actually play your class to the maximum extend, then it takes a ton of work, not only theoretical but also practical, if you think about it, how many classes really need to compare what to use and when to use it during movement and such? However, this is not a "omg Elemenental shamans are hard to play" post, or to shit on other classes saying they're easy, just a basic knowledge about Elementals and PVE.