3.3 was a big step in the right direction for spriests

[greysin]

pvp in bgs isn't so horrible now, i've noticed spriests can keep up with locks and dks in "healing via damage" which helps a lot

in pve, it's nice to see a bit more damage, seems that NOW a good spriest isn't being outdone by average rogues/dks/etc and all that haste sure makes a quit multidot/mindsear pop a lot higher damage than it did before

still wish there was a +dmg glyph to replace the swp glyph so that people at least have the option, or they'd just buff the utility to make up for it (raid-wide VE with a talent/glyph/default)

but it just seems like it's a lot more fun now than it was

PS: those 7k DP crits aren't bad either, i've been seeing some large numbers from DP that help ramp up dps quicker

[jonish]

i just hope everyone realizes these numbers are based off multi dotting. There hasnt been a true single target fight to test where we are on the front in totgc or ICC yet so lets not jump the gun and overexaggerate the position we are in.

Yes with the fights in totgc and ICC so far we are looking to be in a great spot but all these fights are very condusive to the way we do things. Switching to a very large amount of haste on your gear also helps on these add fights where the adds die relatively fast.

[KresnikHellfire]

i just hope everyone realizes these numbers are based off multi dotting. There hasnt been a true single target fight to test where we are on the front in totgc or ICC yet so lets not jump the gun and overexaggerate the position we are in.

Yes with the fights in totgc and ICC so far we are looking to be in a great spot but all these fights are very condusive to the way we do things. Switching to a very large amount of haste on your gear also helps on these add fights where the adds die relatively fast.

I wouldn't quite agree with that.

anecdotal evidence incoming

On our Lady Deathwhisper 25 kill last night, we had melee dealing with the adds and casters on the boss, as you do. The only time casters had to switch was for the add that I don't know the name of where it is immune to melee attacks. Although we attacked that, the rest of the time was pretty much single-target Lady Deathwhisper dps. And of all the casters, I was up there with the warlocks (who were doing suprisingly well on that fight) and the arcane mages, pulling about (although I can't remember exactly) 7.2k single target dps. It was pretty damn nice, in all honesty.

[syanid]

We had SP doing 7.5k on Lady Deathwhisper (he was constantly on her) and 7k on Deathbringer Saurfang. Our rogue had 10.5k dps on Saurfang.
On Marrowgar spriests will have advantage due to being able to dps constantly and having Fade to help them survive when aggro clears, and consequently we had both SPs topping damage meter there.

[greysin]

i base it on target dummies self buffed because that's the most pure comparison

[Kelesti]

i base it on target dummies self buffed because that's the most pure comparison

Except it's not the most pure comparison, because of alternate scaling between classes, as well as how movement and target switching and/or multiple burn targets affect each class or spec differently.

Standing there beating on a single target dummy and not moving may have worked for Patchwerk style comparisons, but we don't have Patchwerk. At least, not anymore.

[Deleted]

i base it on target dummies self buffed because that's the most pure comparison

Depends on what you want to test. Dummies can be used to compare gear, talents or rotations.

It's very poor meter for estimating dps in a raid setting, or against other classes.

For example, the value of 8% passive haste from buffs and heroism went up by miles with 3.3, that won't show on the dummy. Spriest raid damage has gone up more than dummy tests imply.

[Worshaka]

i just hope everyone realizes these numbers are based off multi dotting. There hasnt been a true single target fight to test where we are on the front in totgc or ICC yet so lets not jump the gun and overexaggerate the position we are in.

Yes with the fights in totgc and ICC so far we are looking to be in a great spot but all these fights are very condusive to the way we do things. Switching to a very large amount of haste on your gear also helps on these add fights where the adds die relatively fast.

/sigh

Blizzard have stated many many times... players think DPS is balanced on patchwerk type encounters, blizzard don't give a flying ..... about Patchwerk type encounters... ie single target DPS. They want to balance DPS to the available encounters. Shock Horror, those encounters can involve multi dotting... what a suprise.

Just because you can multi dot does not make your DPS figure invalid. They are not trying to achieve an enviroment where every class hits exactly x DPS on every encounter. They are expecting some classes to be strong on encounter x and weaker on encounter y.

Overall you should feel you can contribute and that a raid doesnt' suffer from you playing whatever class it is you want to play. If you raid does suffer then in theory the reason is to do with you as a player not you as a class. This is still a concept that people like yourself can't seem to grasp.

Of course 99.9% of the playing population think DPS meters are a reflection of their own massive egos and if you can top a DPS chart you are somehow better than everyone else. TBH the moment someone says to be that they know DPS meters mean little, they have already demonstrated a far better underestanding of this game than just about everyone, particularly yourself.

[jonish]

/sigh

Blizzard have stated many many times... players think DPS is balanced on patchwerk type encounters, blizzard don't give a flying ..... about Patchwerk type encounters... ie single target DPS. They want to balance DPS to the available encounters. Shock Horror, those encounters can involve multi dotting... what a suprise.

Just because you can multi dot does not make your DPS figure invalid. They are not trying to achieve an enviroment where every class hits exactly x DPS on every encounter. They are expecting some classes to be strong on encounter x and weaker on encounter y.

Overall you should feel you can contribute and that a raid doesnt' suffer from you playing whatever class it is you want to play. If you raid does suffer then in theory the reason is to do with you as a player not you as a class. This is still a concept that people like yourself can't seem to grasp.

Of course 99.9% of the playing population think DPS meters are a reflection of their own massive egos and if you can top a DPS chart you are somehow better than everyone else. TBH the moment someone says to be that they know DPS meters mean little, they have already demonstrated a far better underestanding of this game than just about everyone, particularly yourself.

no you just have your nose so far up blizzards ass you cannot see common sense. I completely debunked any argument you have ever had on these forums when replying to my posts. I am not going to get into another multi page debate with you to disprove everything you said. I have thoroughly done that already in other threads to the point you had nothing left to say. Once again you make idiotic assumptions of what I think about our dps which are completely misplaced.

It is a fact that right now these encounters are very beneficial to our class. If later fights in ICC are leaned toward single target mechanics our numbers will decline , period. there is no arguing this point in any fashion. that will not make you look like an idiot.

Someone saying dps meters means nothing is a copout for someone like yourself who cant compete in a high end guild and just sticks around there mediocre guild and takes what he can get.

dps has to be balanced to a certain degree based around single target damage. If it is not then you get situations like you have currently in PVP. where single target dps classes that are excelling in pve are utterly crushing pvp classes, but this goes both ways. There damage was too high in pvp thus a nerf that affected pve came as a result.

im not gonna drag this post out anymore than i already have. dps has to be balanced within a certain amount based on single target dps. You cannot have classes that are grossly lower on single target encounters or it will unbalance other aspects of the game.

[Proletariat]

no you just have your nose so far up blizzards ass you cannot see common sense. I completely debunked any argument you have ever had on these forums when replying to my posts. I am not going to get into another multi page debate with you to disprove everything you said. I have thoroughly done that already in other threads to the point you had nothing left to say. Once again you make idiotic assumptions of what I think about our dps which are completely misplaced.

It is a fact that right now these encounters are very beneficial to our class. If later fights in ICC are leaned toward single target mechanics our numbers will decline , period. there is no arguing this point in any fashion. that will not make you look like an idiot.

Someone saying dps meters means nothing is a copout for someone like yourself who cant compete in a high end guild and just sticks around there mediocre guild and takes what he can get.

dps has to be balanced to a certain degree based around single target damage. If it is not then you get situations like you have currently in PVP. where single target dps classes that are excelling in pve are utterly crushing pvp classes, but this goes both ways. There damage was too high in pvp thus a nerf that affected pve came as a result.

im not gonna drag this post out anymore than i already have. dps has to be balanced within a certain amount based on single target dps. You cannot have classes that are grossly lower on single target encounters or it will unbalance other aspects of the game.

Nice to see that you're your usual cheery self.

Your argument would be alright, except one flaw: our single target damage isn't "grossly lower" than every other class anymore, like it was in 3.2. For example, take the above poster who mentioned both their guild's shadowpriests placed at the top of the damage meters on Marrowgar, which is essentially a single-target fight. He/she attributed this to the fact that spriests are able to do a fair amount of DPS through Bone Storm; even though so many people have talked about how dot classes require too much ramp up time, on this fight the dot mechanics proved to be an advantage on a single target fight. Just because our class doesn't follow a homogenized DPS style doesn't mean we suffer, and frankly the game would be rather boring if every class did damage by hitting X Y and Z.

As for your PvP comments, I don't really know what to say except perhaps that that's not exactly your field of expertise (although what exactly is I have no clue.) There are so many other factors than just PvE style sustained DPS in PvP, such as survivability, cc, on-demand burst, etc etc. If DPS was the only thing that one needed to consider in PvP, then the game would have been balanced into monotonous equilibrium a long time ago.

And hey, there's no such thing as "pvp classes." Unless you need lessons, or something.

Although, Wors is probably underestimating DPS meters. It's the same case as people who believe trash/AoE dps doesn't matter: in a raid, your goal is to kill the boss, and as DPS your way of helping to achieve this goal is to do as much damage as you can in the fight period. This of course requires staying alive, knowing how to maximize your class on a particular fight, when to pop what cds, how to use mana/resource efficiently, but in the end you're there to kill the damn thing. Killing trash faster means more boss attempts means higher probability of killing boss. Doing more damage means fight is shorter meaning less mistakes occur/less strain on healer mana/less chance for rng to fuck you meaning higher probability of killing boss. However you want to look at it, DPS meters measure how well DPS is contributing to the ultimate goal, and other matters such as survival will be reflected in that (such as poor player with good DPS but low damage done, due to death)

While Good DPS =/= Good Player, Good DPS is one of the factors contributing to being a Good Player.

[Kelesti]

While I liked your post before, this part had me look twice and ask a simple question:

While Good DPS =/= Good Player, Good DPS is one of the factors contributing to being a Good Player.

So before 3.3, good players didn't play Shadow Priest? :P

[Proletariat]

While I liked your post before, this part had me look twice and ask a simple question:So before 3.3, good players didn't play Shadow Priest? :P

That's not exactly what I said, or at least what I mean to say :P In the context of my exact quote, "Good DPS" would be relative to Spriests only, not to the overall game and the many class/specs that it contains.

Plus, it also depends on how you define "Good player." If you believe it's synonymous with value, then specs that are clearly underperforming generally tend to be attributed less value than specs that are top of the pack. That's why you see high end guilds switching from several Spriests for fights like Yogg 0 to one or none in ToGC or Algalon.

[greysin]

Depends on what you want to test. Dummies can be used to compare gear, talents or rotations.

It's very poor meter for estimating dps in a raid setting, or against other classes.

For example, the value of 8% passive haste from buffs and heroism went up by miles with 3.3, that won't show on the dummy. Spriest raid damage has gone up more than dummy tests imply.

dummies can be used to compare buffs as far as a % goes

about the same % between fully raid buffed in 3.2 vs fully raid buffed in 3.3 applies too, except that there is about a 5% dps increase since haste affects 2 dots now that it didn't in 3.2

MF is still the #1 damaging ability with MB 3rd, those always scaled with haste and haven't changed in how much it affects them, and since spriests still get less out of heroism/bloodlust than the other classes (it doesn't make your dots tick faster) they're still a bit behind even though a higher % (close to 40%) of their raid damage comes from raid buffs alone

hell, you can see a 10% change in dps from one week to the next in a raid setting if EVERYTHING is 100% the same, comparing between enough raid parses with everything being the same is almost impossible

just easier and more consistent on a target dummy when self buffed

[Seradetbc]

When we cleared ICC on Tuesday I was easily @ 7-8.5k dps (sometimes higher) each fight, and my gear is nothing amazing.

i.e. my trinkets :P

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...eaver&n=Aireos

[Direshadow]

We're in a very good position in both PVE and PVP. Last night I came out as number 4 dps on Marrowgar and remained around that point for the rest of the evening. It felt good. I had no desire to be number one, I just wanted to feel useful, and it seems Blizzard has done that for me.


In PVP, I've noticed I'm surviving longer due to the VE change, particularly against pet classes like DK's and Warlocks. Multidotting has become a very powerful tool for us now. Throw in that our shadow form doesn't cost as much, and I suddenly feel like a force to be reckoned with at times.


I'd like to see what cata has in store, but right now, I'm a happy camper. Melting faces has never been so much fun.

[jonish]

Nice to see that you're your usual cheery self.

Your argument would be alright, except one flaw: our single target damage isn't "grossly lower" than every other class anymore, like it was in 3.2.

either you ignored my earlier posts or just read the last one but i said our dps is fine NOW , but by the end of ICC the issues with the rest of our unaddressed spells that still have poor scaling may catch up to us. No one really knows at this point WHEN it will catch up and as i said i HOPE that the scaling issue will not show up in ICC and this change will last us into Cata.

[TwistedPower]

I realy do not care what direction we took a step in, I only care if we are there yet.

[Deleted]

i base it on target dummies self buffed because that's the most pure comparison

And you don't have to worry about whether or not bloodlust is a haste affect or not.

OH YES I WENT THERE AGAIN!!!

[Deleted]

dummies can be used to compare buffs as far as a % goes

since spriests still get less out of heroism/bloodlust than the other classes (it doesn't make your dots tick faster)

Heroism does make hasted dots tick faster, when you cast them during it, and it makes a huge difference.


I just pugged voa25 and did 8000dps single target on Koralon, 3min fight. No flask or food. My record from 3.2 was somewhere around 6400dps. That's 25% more dps btw.
I checked the data and I had about 40-45% crit on all spells so no imba rng in those numbers.

Selfbuffed on the dummy I see about 10% more damage between 3.2 and 3.3.

That's a big difference in damage gain between dummy tests and real raid environment.