[Ele] Just need you oppinion

[ghepip]

So im doing okay in raids, not going oom or anything at the moment.
So i was wondering if I could still survive if i took -1 from Shamanistic Focus in Enhancement tree(45% less shock cost) and -1(or -2 without the SF in enh tree) in Boomins Echos(Increased Diredt Dmg Done on flameshock) and put them in Improved Fire Nova for the situational AoE? or would the direct FS dmg be too much? I have the tier 9 2 set bonus so im at 27 sec flameshock duration.

[darkgreedele sham]

This is imo the best Fire nova spec out. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...kgreen&group=2
I put it together myself but im sure many others have done the same.

[tacklebox]

with booming echoes being one of the worst talents any class has, you wouldnt be missing much. Though I've found that fire nova is way too situational to be even be remotely useful in a raid. I wouldnt bother talenting for it. The time it takes to place a stupid totem within range to hit anything is greater than the damage you would have just had with normal rotation damage. Its more of a 5man/anub thing tbh.

[Deleted]

with booming echoes being one of the worst talents any class has, you wouldnt be missing much. Though I've found that fire nova is way too situational to be even be remotely useful in a raid. I wouldnt bother talenting for it. The time it takes to place a stupid totem within range to hit anything is greater than the damage you would have just had with normal rotation damage. Its more of a 5man/anub thing tbh.

Well, seeing as you have 5/5 points in Convection, which gives an astounding 0 DPS, I'd say you could pretty much spare 2 of those points to put into Improved FN, which would increase your DPS on every fight which has 3 or more enemies. (FN is stronger than LB when fighting at least 3 enemies... or they are rather equal... as soon as you can hit 4 enemies, FN wins by far)

[Tunak]

Well, seeing as you have 5/5 points in Convection, which gives an astounding 0 DPS, I'd say you could pretty much spare 2 of those points to put into Improved FN, which would increase your DPS on every fight which has 3 or more enemies. (FN is stronger than LB when fighting at least 3 enemies... or they are rather equal... as soon as you can hit 4 enemies, FN wins by far)

You make a bad argument and convey alot of ignorance in your post.

Ya FN will do more damage than an LB if there are 3 or more enemies, however, all 3 of them have to be within 10 yards of the totem for it to be remotely effective and CL would be a much cheaper use of mana and do more damage overall.

FN has very situational uses in a boss encounter, it puts a hurting on your mana if you use it too much, and it forces you to run a minimum of 26 yards to make use of it. With the damage being as piss poor as it is even with 2 talent points invested the overall usefulness of the talent is < Booming Echoes on anything except trash pulls. Not to mention any boss fight with even a little bit of movent pretty much illiminates any feasable usefullness for FN.

5/5 points in convection add up to alot of DPS if you run the risk of going oom at any point, it also allows well geared shaman to utilize CL more in their rotation which has proven to be a DPS increase. So ya.... you wrong.

[Deleted]

You make a bad argument and convey alot of ignorance in your post.

Ya FN will do more damage than an LB if there are 3 or more enemies, however, all 3 of them have to be within 10 yards of the totem for it to be remotely effective and CL would be a much cheaper use of mana and do more damage overall.

FN has very situational uses in a boss encounter, it puts a hurting on your mana if you use it too much, and it forces you to run a minimum of 26 yards to make use of it. With the damage being as piss poor as it is even with 2 talent points invested the overall usefulness of the talent is < Booming Echoes on anything except trash pulls. Not to mention any boss fight with even a little bit of movent pretty much illiminates any feasable usefullness for FN.

5/5 points in convection add up to alot of DPS if you run the risk of going oom at any point, it also allows well geared shaman to utilize CL more in their rotation which has proven to be a DPS increase. So ya.... you wrong.

So... you always stay right where you are when a boss is pulled and never move? So you never have your totems where the boss (+adds) might be?
Like say.. on Jaraxxus! Or Anub, Hodir(not really worth anything there, but whatever), Thorim, Freya, Yogg-P3 (put 'em where the Melee will be), Marrowgar (remember, he whirlwinds all over the room) and Lady Deathwhisper.
These are all fights where you can and sometimes should put your totems near the boss, so a) everyone is in range and b) you could use FN to hit several enemies. And in most of 'em it's not "run 26 yards to the boss to put your totems down midfight to use FN", but more like "run to the boss, put totems down and than start the fight". Yes, you start DPS a bit after everyone else, but seriously, stop being a DPS whore. It's like people on Twin Val'kyr only looking at their DPS and using their CDs when they have the buff instead of when it's neccessary. (shield)


Another thing you don't seem to understand:
Yes, CL does more damage than FN until... don't know, I guess about 5-6 enemies. So CL will nearly always have a higher priority than FN. But this does NOT mean that FN has no priority. If there are 3 enemies, than FN has a higher priority than LB. This is what I wrote and this is right.
Or what would you do? Use CL and than, when it is on CD for 3.5sec, use only LB and LvB? Would be a rather big DPS-loss, no?


Next thing: Booming Echoes is a Talent you should always have. Just because it's a direct DPS increase. Not sure if you know, but Elemental is different than other DPS.
We don't have the choice "should I put my last 4 points into this DPS increasing talent or rather in this? Or how about 2 there, 1 there and 1 there?".
Our choices are "should I get hit for 6% less damage or should I end the fight with 60% mana instead of 40%?".
So... we all know that there's no more Patchwerk-like encounter. So we all have to move sometimes. When moving, you use a Shock (still not too sure if Frost Shock would really be a DPS increase over Flame Shock, seeing as you will have to cast Flame Shock again afterwards to renew the DoT... well, depends on how many seconds are left on it) and then nothing. Because, you know, YOU don't have your Fire Totem near the Boss, so FN would only waste mana. The only other thing you can do is cast Thunderstorm. This way you get 10% mana back.
Now... very well geared Elementals reach ~24k+ mana, unbuffed. (Mek from Ensidia has 25k >_>)
With so much mana, it is nearly impossible to go OOM, if you use TS often enough.
CL is a DPS increase over LB. That's true and you should use CL as often as possible.
But there is something you don't see, which is rather interesting about CL. Let's say your LB has a casting time of 1.4sec. This way you would be ~0.05sec above LvB-CD, but only when using LvB-LB-CL-LB-LB-LB-LB-LvB. Now what do you do? Do you still go with the priority system of yours which says CL is a DPS increase and use it instead of the last LB? When fighting multiple targets - YES. But on single-target you'd lose DPS, since you'd have to wait 0.3sec for your LvB to come off CD(and seeing as LB does more damage than CL, you would have lost DPS) OR cast another LB, which would put you 1.1sec over LvB-CD.

This is to show to you that another forced CL between two LvB is not always a DPS increase. Totally depends on your haste value. I personally am at said haste value, which is about 1180 haste rating. (including Totem)
So for me, Convection grants ~0 DPS, except for AoE-fights... but on these I'll just use TS more than on single target, which does enough.
Convection does not always grant a huge amount of DPS, especially not on single target.

[Deathmstr]

Build like me

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Lustforchaos

I just did for the first time ICC 25 and I have no mana problems. Even on lady, I did 9.5mins of intense casting on her (with TS a few times) and had 1/2 my mana at the end (7.1k dps).

FN is quite usefull for trash. But that's it.

Don't you love seeing multiple big numbers?

[boneschaman]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#hVI0qfdItGfzAo0xxco:bkpc

this
the most elementals will not need imp enh or guard totems

[Deathmstr]

Ya well, we don't have an enh ;p

It's a buff for melee

[Carambola]

Some people are saying that for 3+ mobs Fire Nova is better than CL, but Fire Nova costs +- 1k mana, CL has Clearcasting. CL has Lightning Overload. CL Crit is Bigger. CL does'nt need to have a Fire Totem on Melee Range (this really sucks).

Well, I assume that: Chain Lightning Wins! Flawless Victory.

[Deleted]

Some people are saying that for 3+ mobs Fire Nova is better than CL, but Fire Nova costs +- 1k mana, CL has Clearcasting. CL has Lightning Overload. CL Crit is Bigger. CL does'nt need to have a Fire Totem on Melee Range (this really sucks).

Well, I assume that: Chain Lightning Wins! Flawless Victory.

Just read the whole damn thread, will you? -.-
CL is better than FN for at least 5 or 6 targets.

What people are really saying is that FN is better than LB for 3+ targets. Not CL. LB.
And FN has Clearcasting the same way CL does.

[kwekee]

Also Chain lightning has a cooldown so you can CL and immediatly do a FN after.. combined with magma totem and thunderstorm on trash you can do loads os aoe dmg..

Proccess = walk up to tank -> place fire totem (magma for short fight) > FN > thunderstorm > CL > FN

[Carambola]

Just read the whole damn thread, will you? -.-
CL is better than FN for at least 5 or 6 targets.

What people are really saying is that FN is better than LB for 3+ targets. Not CL. LB.
And FN has Clearcasting the same way CL does.

Fire Nova Still needs a Fire Totem on Melee Range. Thats the point. This sucks.

Stop DPS to go to the tank, Magma Totem, Thunderstorm, Fire Nova only to make a 20-25k on (probably 5-man random heroic pugged) trash mobs?! Really?

[kwekee]

you do know you dont HAVE to stand 30 yards away to do dps right?

I think blizz wants us to be a close range spellcaster, just watch out for cleaves

[Deleted]

Fire Nova Still needs a Fire Totem on Melee Range. Thats the point. This sucks.

Stop DPS to go to the tank, Magma Totem, Thunderstorm, Fire Nova only to make a 20-25k on (probably 5-man random heroic pugged) trash mobs?! Really?

I've done the same thing with Tunak already, in this and another thread.
YES, you have to put your totem down near the tank to hit the mobs with Fire Nova.
But a) you can do so in A LOT of bossfights. Just think of all fights in WotLK and in which of them you could put down your totems near the boss and not lose DPS. (before the fight, or when the boss switched phases, whatever)
b) FN WITH glyph is a huuuuuuge AoE-buff. The numbers you can get with TS, CL, Magma Totem and FN are just ridiculous, compared to what we had before. You know, when the only things we had were TS, CL and Magma Totem... a FN every 3sec which hits every enemy for 2.5k to 6k is rather huge, you know.

So, to make it short:
On Trash and AoE-heavy fights (like Anub25 HC) you'll of course take FN, specced AND glyphed. And you use it, because CL has a CD and therefore can't be used all the time. So can we please, please stop this FN-thing? It's just stupid >_>

[ghepip]

Right so i did ICC.
And i hit 10k thursday before i respecced.
Now i hit 13k on aoe pulls(same as the one thursday cause of respawn).

[Carambola]

So, to make it short:
On Trash and AoE-heavy fights (like Anub25 HC) you'll of course take FN, specced AND glyphed. And you use it, because CL has a CD and therefore can't be used all the time. So can we please, please stop this FN-thing? It's just stupid >_>

Ok, thats an reasonable argument. I'll change my mind after this. But, im still dont like the idea to go to the tank.