GearScore for ICC

[Milamber]

I cleared ICC with a group wearing only grays.
Skill > Gear

[zaronn]

People complain about GS because either they cannot get into certian pugs because of gear level, even though they have the skill to do it, or because they expect it to be the end all of pug selection; it is not meant to be either of these, it is a tool and its utility is well outlined in an above post.

but yes I often see people who have 5k+ gear scores who do 4k dps.... and often times, these people also act like they are great players because they have bought 2 triumph trinkets and wear pvp gear when they are running around dalaran; bullying those who try to join a pug with the intention of getting better gear

I personally keep gearscore on anytime I am hosting a pug, because it is a quick glance at players potential; I do not however set a hardline GS requirement, because most of the time the majority of the players are over geared and could carry an undergeared person or two as long as those undergeared people are doing their job.

In summary, I like gearscore as a refrence tool; but it will not work if you expect more from it than it is designed to do.

[Arthik]

I cleared ICC with a group wearing only grays.
Skill > Gear

Hehe. I have seen maybe poeple with 5K GS not being able to pass the 2.1K DPS on Lady Deathwhisper so yeah.

[Visix]

People complain about GS because either they cannot get into certian pugs because of gear level, even though they have the skill to do it, or because they expect it to be the end all of pug selection;

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...aka&n=Learthas

I still complain about gear score because a lot of people use it as a bible.

[Elleyndria]

Gear score doesn't matter. Skill and sense matter. Having the sense to know you're under geared helps a lot more than having some random guy whisper you in all caps, "GS UNDER 5K?! LOLNUBE!"

Cleary you miss the point when I said that if you use only GS or say that it doesnt matter. Ofcourse you would expect a good player to realize hey I dont ahve the gear for this, but they wouldnt be trying to get into that raid. There are a loot of bad players in all kinds of gear. GS is the potential for that player. a 4800 GS DPS should be doing more than a 4200 but that is where skill kicks in. However you can not say that gear means nothing

[Visix]

Hehe. I have seen maybe poeple with 5K GS not being able to pass the 2.1K DPS on Lady Deathwhisper so yeah.

Were those people melee? And if they were, is that 2.1k DPS a parse from phase 2 only? Is you answered yes to the first and no to the second, then you don't know enough about the mechanics of that fight to talk trash about anyone.

[Naelite]

Well said, Munk

I'm not gonna bother making a long post, but it happened to me, the other day, running Halls of Reflection again, on normal.
This one guy, points out that my GS isn't high enough and that he had failed miserably with a pug who had 1k+ GS more than me.
Before I could link my achievement and even explain that I know how to play, they had already vote kicked me.

How insulting and frustrating...

I understand that it can be a good raid tool, for guilds, maybe even be useful for gear distribution.
I think it seriously got out of hand.

Maybe someone should make an addon, that acts like a history, or bio - Which takes account of not only your iLvl, but also your gems, enchants, talents.
Especially this: Something that counts how many "fails" you had; etc. failed and moved during Flame Wreath.
But would be cool if it could log "good" things too.
Hell, I can't code and maybe I'm starting to sound unrealistic. haha.


Bottom point: People need to stop fapping their E-peen by looking at their gearscore.

[Arason]

Got declined on an app not long time ago, for not having enough GS.
Fuck gearscore.

They were ToGC25 raiding guild.

[Deleted]

since 95% of mmo-champ posters hate gearscore with a passion I don't even understand why it has become so popular.

If you're running a pug there's a big difference between players being good enough and being so good that hopefully you won't have to work too hard. It would be nice if everyone assembled groups based purely on what was required to get the instance done, but the fact is that if you demand some stoopid gs level then your instance is more likely to go faster. There are a lot of good players with low gs, and bad players with high gs, but there are also a lot of good players with high gs and bad players with low gs, so not using gs isn't going to make you any more likely to pick only players who know what they're doing.

In general people don't want pugs to be any harder than they have to be, and the people who 'hate' gs when they're angling for an invite are often the same people who will start demanding it once their place in a raid is secured.

[Nolyn]

And dont use atlasloot either. That too is only for lazy people who don't know how to look gear up on wowhead without using an addon. Addons are crutches or bads.

Hmmm...I don't see the connection between a tool that lets me look up stats/item drops on bosses immediately in-game for direct comparison with my current gear and Gearscore. Leave Atlas out of this. It's a wonderful tool and doesn't affect anyone's gameplay but the person using it.

Also, with the new Triumphs-drop-everywhere system, you should be able to get easily above a 4600+ gearscore within a day of decent farming on ANY character that you can put a decent amount of time in. So stop bitching, and get to farming. You can talk about skill all you want, but if you don't have the dedication to get to the appropriate gear level for the content, you aren't the kind of player I want anyway.

[Yon]

and the people who 'hate' gs when they're angling for an invite are often the same people who will start demanding it once their place in a raid is secured.

Well said. I also have a sneaking suspicion that this is true. Not for everyone, of course, but for some.

[Lazlo15]

Everyone:
Calm.
Down.

We got it.
You all cleared "such and such" dungeon with -1000 gs score in greens from level 10 and still topped dps/hps and you did it in less than 15 minutes. At the same time the guy with a 9,001 gs did less than 100 dps/hps and died to fires.
Stop flooding this forum with your own adorable stories, killing internet monsters isn't that tough.
The people that actually use GearScore as a measurement of skill are the same baddies that won't clear any challenging content (WTB [Sunwell] PST) and they most certainly won't be trolling the forums to see what you think about it.
When trying to gear your alt, assuming you have the super tough skill to down this super tough content (fires hurt): http://fakeachievement.com + a friendly smile = Will usually do the trick.


You can stop flooding the forum now.

[Naelite]

Hmm, another thing:
You also have to take account that people have alts they're trying to gear up - while they might not have the best gear out there, they still have the experience from playing their main, which should matter a lot.

For people who do use GearScore as a bible: instead of coldly rejecting people who do not meet your standards, why not ask a few questions first and actually giving a chance, it might even save you a wipe in the end.
Thanks.

[tet]

Last week we carried 2 people through icc 10m. One of them was a shaman that was freshly dinged to 80 and had a shit ton of BT gear. The other one was a hunter that had greens and blues, aside from the random ToC 5m piece.

The rest of us only had ulduar gear. We didn't have ToC 10m/25m gear, or anything like that. So don't give me that shit that you need a certain GS to clear ICC 10m, at least not for this first wing.

Skill > Gear.

[tet]

Hmmm...I don't see the connection between a tool that lets me look up stats/item drops on bosses immediately in-game for direct comparison with my current gear and Gearscore. Leave Atlas out of this. It's a wonderful tool and doesn't affect anyone's gameplay but the person using it.

Also, with the new Triumphs-drop-everywhere system, you should be able to get easily above a 4600+ gearscore within a day of decent farming on ANY character that you can put a decent amount of time in. So stop bitching, and get to farming. You can talk about skill all you want, but if you don't have the dedication to get to the appropriate gear level for the content, you aren't the kind of player I want anyway.

Hence why you cannot rely on this gearscore bullshit to judge a player, since any limbless monkey can grind themselves to a "high" gearscore but still do terrible in pugs. Laziest way to judge players... why not ask them about their experiences like some other guy suggested?

[Broontank]

Gear score doesn't matter. Skill and sense matter. Having the sense to know you're under geared helps a lot more than having some random guy whisper you in all caps, "GS UNDER 5K?! LOLNUBE!"

In reply to the original post:
Invite tanks that know their class and have researched the fights.
Invite healers that know their class and know not to stand in fire.
Invite DPS that know their class and know not to stand in fire.

If you follow that invite policy, there's nothing you can't do in WOTLK.

When Naxx was still the hot shit, our invite policy was to ask people we were pugging to explain the Grobulus fight in less than 5 sentences. If you couldn't say, "Don't stand in poison clouds and don't stand in front of the boss." Then you couldn't go. We usually even accepted a three word answer of "Poison is bad."

How do you propose a raid leader know whether or not someone 'knows their class and researched the fights?'

Do you have a mod that tells raid leaders that this person knows their class? Great advice there genius.

Gear score lets a raid leader know the general level that a player has achieved on that character up to that point when they have no other means of knowing anything about that player. Of course there are poorly geared players with a lot of skill and there are well geared players who are terrible. At least using a tool like wow-heroes, a raid leader has some kind of idea and isn't going to invite someone based on what they tell him/her alone.

People need to learn to distinguish better... Just because some raid leaders say stupid things in trade like 'must have 5 billion GS' or 'must link TOGC 25 achievement to be accepted into my naxx 10' doesn't make the tool stupid, it makes THEM stupid. Just because someone stabs another person with a knife, doesn't mean knives are terrible. Quit blaming the tool when you should be blaming the person using it incorrectly.

I have pugged a ton of instances on my alts and the ones where the raid leaders have checked gearscores have run much smoother. Gearscore is not the and all and be all, but at least it's something when a raid leader has nothing else to base his decision on.

Stop saying stupid, ignorant things, please. Thanks

[Yon]

Last week we carried 2 people through icc 10m. One of them was a shaman that was freshly dinged to 80 and had a shit ton of BT gear. The other one was a hunter that had greens and blues, aside from the random ToC 5m piece.

The rest of us only had ulduar gear. We didn't have ToC 10m/25m gear, or anything like that. So don't give me that shit that you need a certain GS to clear ICC 10m, at least not for this first wing.

Skill > Gear.

Yeah, I got you. But what if everyone in the raid were freshly dinged 80s? If you want to carry someone that's fine, but if others don't want to carry anyone shouldn't it be their decision to make a pug raid without people you need to carry?

[Visix]

Stop saying stupid, ignorant things, please. Thanks

"No man is an island." Everyone on the server knows someone else. When you're about to invite someone, ask your raid: "Does anyone know PlayerX?"

Word of mouth is a remarkable thing. Every time I ever join a PuG that I intend on tanking, there are numerous amounts of people that say, "Snap, Learthas is here! I group with him a lot!"

If you PuG a lot of things, you'll get to know a lot of people's names. And a lot of people will get to know you.

Stop jumping to conclusions, please. Thanks.

[tet]

Yeah, I got you. But what if everyone in the raid were freshly dinged 80s? If you want to carry someone that's fine, but if others don't want to carry anyone shouldn't it be their decision to make a pug raid without people you need to carry?

You make it sound like it's a lot of work to carry someone. These two people we carried were never made us reconsider our decision or held back the raid at any point during clearing it. Why? Because they had raided BT with us back in TBC, and therefore we knew they were quality players despite their gear.

[Broontank]

You make it sound like it's a lot of work to carry someone. These two people we carried were never made us reconsider our decision or held back the raid at any point during clearing it. Why? Because they had raided BT with us back in TBC, and therefore we knew they were quality players despite their gear.

Exactly...
You knew them prior to running with them so gearscore wasn't needed to help you determine whether or not to bring them.

Gearscore is for gaining information on PLAYERS YOU DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.