Offensive utility for Retribution

[Horn]

I haven't seen this 'insane burst' people are referring to since the loss of our dear friend Mr. Seal of Blood. Our burst is not beyond anything an elemental shaman, destruction warlock, arms warrior, or frost mage dish out on demand.

@OP; A nice concept, but it really doesn't feel right to me giving us a mana burn.

[Pocketsand]

To end all the new seal "IDEAS" and "UTILITY ABILITIES"..Bring back Seal of Blood which would bring back Ret in arena. It was a hard hitting seal thats not a mystery but it would be easier to bring that back then have people scratching there ass thinking of new ways to complicate something that doesnt need to be complicated.

[Guesswho69]

If you line up the buffs and use cooldowns, it is possible to hit 15k in two global cooldowns. Remember a global cooldown is just two button presses.

1) The poster never stated what debuffs he had on himself.
2) The poster never stated what buffs the other pally had active.

OT: Why would a paladin need a mana burn?

[Ronark]

If you line up the buffs and use cooldowns, it is possible to hit 15k in two global cooldowns. Remember a global cooldown is just two button presses.

1) The poster never stated what debuffs he had on himself.
2) The poster never stated what buffs the other pally had active.

OT: Why would a paladin need a mana burn?

Anti-healer tool by sticking to the "outlast, outplay" theory of Paladins.

[Vasti]

OMG ofc Raiss is right!!! EVERY lvl 80 paladin can do 15k dmg to an 1100 resi lvl 80 player!!! DUHHHH

How? Raiss had Ress sickness, otherwise impossible, dun care how high retri burst can get, but saying 15k in 2 gcds withouth the target having ress sickness is like saying you downed Deadwing last night on your first solo attempt! friggin impossible!!!

he had wings+trinkets+raid buffs+flasks and it happened in world pvp while the target was brought under 20% for the HoW to be usable then:
auto-swing crit
seal proc crit
Judgement crit
HoW crit
could be around 15k

hmmm perhaps IF the stars align and you can crit all of those on a 1100 resi target who wore nothing besides the resi items, then MAYBE it can happen without res sickness

but thats WoW for ya! Every Chance is "doomed" to happen (thank god it happened to Raiss and not someone of importance) when dealing with LARGE AMOUNTS of tries

Still, then the same with an even bigger crit then 15k can be said for all the other dps specs for the other classes!!

[jenseits]

Here's a point some people in general tend to overlook when it comes to pld rep. They say plds are over-represented, yet ret is under-represented. So the obvious solution is to nerf holy and prot so more ppl HAVE to play ret. So in this case ya, ret rep may go up, BUT THE AVERAGE RATING OF PLDS WILL GO WAY DOWN. If you make ppl switch from one crappy spec because it was good now sucks and make them play something that sucks, you're going to see the sucky spec start to climb, but i can gaurantee that there's going to be only a slight increase in ret rep over 2200+ and a HUGE decline in plds in general.

[Ronark]

Here's a point some people in general tend to overlook when it comes to pld rep. They say plds are over-represented, yet ret is under-represented. So the obvious solution is to nerf holy and prot so more ppl HAVE to play ret. So in this case ya, ret rep may go up, BUT THE AVERAGE RATING OF PLDS WILL GO WAY DOWN. If you make ppl switch from one crappy spec because it was good now sucks and make them play something that sucks, you're going to see the sucky spec start to climb, but i can gaurantee that there's going to be only a slight increase in ret rep over 2200+ and a HUGE decline in plds in general.

And I thought "Pala", "Retri", and "Reti" were bad enough....

In any case, nerfing a healing and damage spec won't make a non-viable spec (in certain cases) viable.

[Raiss]

1.
2.3. . . .
4. profit!

So? I said he can do crazy dmg, but not near close to kill me. Or do you think I have 15k health?

Ok, 2 globals might be too short, but once a paladin used his "rotation" (One judg, one crusader and one storm), it's mostly likely he did more than 10k dmg. Ret fine, you might not me able to solo a healer, but arenas are not about soloing someone. Try ret/rogue/disc or ret/resto/dk(or arms), those are amazing comps that have crazy burst + interrupts + paladin bubbles on your healer. Last time I check warriors, rogues and DKs couldn't bring raid walls or protections to a team.

[Whoopzz]

Warlocks are broken. As a said, there are classes overpowered, destro warlock beeing one of them.

Please face a restodruid/platedps/ret at 2500+. You will see what does burst means. If you think ret dmg is too low, check this http://www.wowarmory.com/arena-game....g&gid=22567222 (last game I lost against a ret paladin, my comp is strong against melees teams). As you can see, ret did more dmg than the unholy DK, and more dmg than my arms warrior (that was freedom and dispells on him full time)

The only thing ret paladins need is more defensive cooldowns. Bubble is a joke, Hand of Sacrifice and Divine Protection can also be dispelled. Ret is always the main target, and they can do nothing about it. And, if there are few teams running ret, is because you can't have both a holy and a ret at the same team. Or, if you check arenajunkies, some paladins are going pret, which is also overpowered.

While I won't say you're a dumb ass, you over exagerate the hell out of every thing. First thing is first, IMPROVED HoFreedom has a 10 second duration, with a 25 second cooldown. Secondly, I arena with perhaps the best DK on my server and half the time I can't beat him even having less gear. I'm full relentless, he's missing the chest. Unholy is insane when played correctly, plus a ton of utility, both offensive and defensive.

Him and I have had 30 minute duels before because they can heal for so much. There is literally no point where paladins have an edge against a skilled DK. So while we may be faceroll, in no way does our bubble or damage justify our lack of utility. We've received countless nerfs to both our survivability and dps to justify giving us offensive utility that we've never seen.

And to close my argument, there is only 2% arena representation of ret Paladins in teams above 2k rating for a reason. I'm willing to sacrifice, but this time I want what was promised to us by blizzard back in 3.1.

[Stuffmeister]

He probably tried to kill a resto druid at WSG, got cycloned and started a new thread complaning how ret paladins are bad for pvp.

THIS...
(is going in my sig 'cus I lol'd).

[grimmhammer]

you sir, are jerk, 'cuz i see you loling at something you pulled out of your head and now you try make it look like it has something to do with this thread.

I don't think anything past post number three has anything to do with this thread unfortunately.

[Styria]

]
I don't think anything past post number three has anything to do with this thread unfortunately.

just thought i'd hop on the bandwagon

[grimmhammer]

Anyhow, it would provide Ret with real comp options in which it would comprise one of the *ideal* members for the team.

It would finally give Ret some good DPS synergy with other classes that isn't just as easily provided by a Healing specced or Prot specced Paladin.

The effect would really only make a difference in the long-run of a match. It provides Ret the last little extra pressure boost it needs as a DPS class without throwing off it's balance in other areas with too much burst damage, too much mobility, or too many lockouts.

Not to mention it would be a nice damage-scaling mana regen mechanic and tool against DPS mana users.

As far as lore is concerned; Paladins hate Mages, so I think it's reasonable to expect that they would have at least one offensive anti-sorcery effect deep in their DPS tree.

[grimmhammer]

Seal of Wisdom ftw.

Elaborate.

[grimmhammer]

recasting BoM with mah nearly-unlimited mana drives mages /\/\@D when they actually put effort in spellstealing .


/sarcasmoff

I don't understand. What does this have to do with offensive anti-caster spells or Paladin lore?

Maybe it's that English is your second language, or maybe that you're off on an unannounced tangent and are trying to be cute.

[Xtra]

I like the idea of the OP, but i've seen better ideas to add offensive utility to rets. Also, with good synergy we have acceptable offensive utility but in almost all setups it will be an improvement to trade the ret for another class which gives better synergy. The problem with rets atm isn't that they are bad, it's just because other classes are better, making retris expendable in almost all comps.

Talking purely about setups, not about players.

[Syce]

all i know is, pvping on my priest, ret are the easiest to heal against. the thing i like is i dont have to worry about being interrupted or anything and i can clear cast all day long while a ret is on me.

only thing that make ret difficult is if they have a MS type effect with them, then their hard as hell to heal against.

[Whoopzz]

man, how could you be sooo narrow-minded?
we already posess a wondrous anti-mage weapong for aslong as pidalan has mana, hes an unstoppable buffing machine, thus, you dont need a piece of flying duck to overthrow those nasty mages.
its just common sense.

quoted for best troll post in this thread.

[grimmhammer]

I like the idea of the OP, but i've seen better ideas to add offensive utility to rets. Also, with good synergy we have acceptable offensive utility but in almost all setups it will be an improvement to trade the ret for another class which gives better synergy. The problem with rets atm isn't that they are bad, it's just because other classes are better, making retris expendable in almost all comps.

Talking purely about setups, not about players.

That's the idea behind the OP. synergy doesn't come via more of what other classes already have, but from something completely different that compliments various other classes' strengths.

Paladins currently have fantastic defensive synergy with several classes, most notably Warriors. The problem is that they have that synergy as any spec, and since it is defensive, it is better provided by a healer.

This idea is an idea to give Ret, which currently has good defensive synergy with melee DPS, a one-of-a-kind powerful offensive synergy with those classes that it already blends with on a defensive level.

The fact is that the classes we currently synergize with already have MS, interrupts, gap closers, and MS effects. If we want to be a hands-down good compliment to an arena team, we (and I mean Ret) must bring more abilities that pronounce our compliment classes on an offensive level.

[Moshy]

I wish righteous fury cost a reasonable amount of mana