Idea: Improved Judgment of Justice

[Rorshack]

I have been reading all kinds of suggestions for paladins and finally had an idea that may or may not have already been suggested but here it is.

In the Ret tree add a talent tree spot for Improved Judgment of Justice.
- 1 point makes judgment of justice reduce target movement speed by 15%
- 2 points makes judgment of justice reduces target movement speed by 30%

This could be added right next to sanctified retribution (20 points) into the tree.

Would be a much needed ability in PvP that if you want it great, if not because you think its too much to waste 2 talent points on in PvE then don't grab it.

Aside from an MS ability that we will never get, this is the one thing that every other class has that paladin doesn't.

[zcks]

A decent idea though it would be a bit to powerful.

I could see it being some kind of proc effect though like if the target of your judgment of justice moves 10 yards or further from you they suffer a 25% movement speed decrease for 4-6 seconds. (we would have to get get in melee range to apply it in the first place)
Whatever they do they really need to give us some actual form of gap closer or extra dispel resist for our buffs because hand of freedom is just a joke in pvp, most decent teams have a way to offensive dispel these days & it just makes all our buffs completely useless.

[Halazz]

Make it increase the range of judgement of justice to 20 yards, make it apply a 3 second root at over 10 yards called "pennence"


Theres your gap closer.

[Rorshack]

I really dont see how this would be overpowered.

Every other melee class has a gap closer.

Warrior: Charge/intercept, hamstring, piercing howl

DK: Death grip, Chains of Ice, Desecration

Rogue: Poisons, Sprint, Kidney Shot, Gouge

Paladin: Repentance (1 min CD) HoJ (1 min CD) are not sufficient.

I'm aware we have Pursuit of Justice, Hand of Freedom, and Cleanse but none of these slow a target they just get you out of other classes slows. By the time you get outta the CC, you have no way to catch your target unless your 1 min CDs are back up. I dont think getting a 30% movement reduction at the cost of 2 talent points and not being able to judge light or wis is really that OP. Also, judgements can be dispelled.

[Rorshack]

The problem is you're folding our much needed snare into one of our best damage abilities. Can hamstring or chains of ice crit for 10k?

No, but Scorge Strike can and that causes desecration slowing all targets in the area 50%

Rogues poisons are applied on every melee hit.

Why would having a slow to a judgement that you can choose to use or not use (light, wisdom) be so awful?
- Judgement also has a 8 second CD (7 with arena gear) unlike hamstring which can be spammed and chains of ice which can be spammed.

[Abandon]

You probably wouldn't want some of the other snares. My snare reduces your speed by 30% and mine by 100%, so just because other classes have a version of something doesnt always mean it would be good for you.

[Raptorg]

Again?

This thread has been made a billion times already.

[DaGhostDS]

Again?

This thread has been made a billion times already.

yes, again?

[grimmhammer]

The Reason Paladins don't have a snare is because we're supposed to have a non-traditional melee DPS toolkit.

Whether you think that functions well enough for you or not, that's the way it is. Any abilities that we get to fill the roles of a traditional melee toolkit will be pseudo copies of them that don't function in the same way.

Judgment of Justice is in fact, our 'snare'. It was implemented as our pseudo mechanic to keep a target in range with a completely unique effect that is more powerful than a snare in some situations and less effective in others.

Any suggestions to give new tools to Paladins should come from a mindset that creates a new mechanic that does not function exactly the same as similar abilities.

[Laxemiss]

No, but Scorge Strike can and that causes desecration slowing all targets in the area 50%

Rogues poisons are applied on every melee hit.

Why would having a slow to a judgement that you can choose to use or not use (light, wisdom) be so awful?
- Judgement also has a 8 second CD (7 with arena gear) unlike hamstring which can be spammed and chains of ice which can be spammed.

Hamstring and chain of ice is not doing thaaaaat much dmg..

But must agree, had use another GCD, or blizz would never implent it.

But i do like the idea

[Myzou]

Remove Repentance, Pursuit of Justice, and make Hammer of Justice melee range, and it will happen.

Ret is fine in PvP, seriously -.- (Coming from an 80 ret/prot pally). If you can't catch someone other than a druid, then maybe you should be looking at you know, YOU, not the class.

[Ronark]

Remove Repentance, Pursuit of Justice, and make Hammer of Justice melee range, and it will happen.

Ret is fine in PvP, seriously -.- (Coming from an 80 ret/prot pally). If you can't catch someone other than a druid, then maybe you should be looking at you know, YOU, not the class.

Or Frost Mages...... Or Hunters......

]
The Reason Paladins don't have a snare is because we're supposed to have a non-traditional melee DPS toolkit.

Whether you think that functions well enough for you or not, that's the way it is. Any abilities that we get to fill the roles of a traditional melee toolkit will be pseudo copies of them that don't function in the same way.

Judgment of Justice is in fact, our 'snare'. It was implemented as our pseudo mechanic to keep a target in range with a completely unique effect that is more powerful than a snare in some situations and less effective in others.

Any suggestions to give new tools to Paladins should come from a mindset that creates a new mechanic that does not function exactly the same as similar abilities.

The thing with snares is that they are all, in essence, the same thing. The only way to make it unique is to have the snare stack through CS when JoJ is applied- You have to be in melee range AND have JoJ AND hit with CS.

[Tikaru]

Remove Repentance, Pursuit of Justice, and make Hammer of Justice melee range, and it will happen.

Ret is fine in PvP, seriously -.- (Coming from an 80 ret/prot pally). If you can't catch someone other than a druid, then maybe you should be looking at you know, YOU, not the class.

You're claiming that Ret is fine in PvP, but what are you basing this on?

[Agrus_ve]

Here's why you probably don't need a snare: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=26023 and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=53407

[Ivpiv]

]
The Reason Paladins don't have a snare is because we're supposed to have a non-traditional melee DPS toolkit.

Whether you think that functions well enough for you or not, that's the way it is. Any abilities that we get to fill the roles of a traditional melee toolkit will be pseudo copies of them that don't function in the same way.

Judgment of Justice is in fact, our 'snare'. It was implemented as our pseudo mechanic to keep a target in range with a completely unique effect that is more powerful than a snare in some situations and less effective in others.

Any suggestions to give new tools to Paladins should come from a mindset that creates a new mechanic that does not function exactly the same as similar abilities.

that is not a valid point.. Blizzard has been giving class specific abilities around like it was christmas eve for years now.. Mortal strike ? started out a warrior only.. The thing that made warriors special.. Now everyone and their mother has MS.

Warriors tanking.. They had shield wall and shield slam nice abilities all of a sudden palas have both.. Alright they arent named the same thing but work EXACTLY THE SAME!.

This is just not a valid point to be whining about giving a class specific ability to another class anymore.. Look at feral druids and compare them to rogues they have almost everything rogues do.

[Maritimus]

Then why not change the proposed talent to something like:

Justiciar
Your Judgement of Justice ability now limits the movement speed of the target to (85/70)% for 10 seconds, but the damage it inflicts is reduced by 50%. Judgement of Justice is now considered a magical effect.

There, pallies now have a dispellable snare. They have to choose whether they want damage (judgement of light/wisdom) or the snare, which is a reasonable tradeoff.

[Windspast]

that is not a valid point.. Blizzard has been giving class specific abilities around like it was christmas eve for years now.. Mortal strike ? started out a warrior only.. The thing that made warriors special.. Now everyone and their mother has MS.

Warriors tanking.. They had shield wall and shield slam nice abilities all of a sudden palas have both.. Alright they arent named the same thing but work EXACTLY THE SAME!.

This is just not a valid point to be whining about giving a class specific ability to another class anymore.. Look at feral druids and compare them to rogues they have almost everything rogues do.

Some things doesn't seem right here..

Mortal strike ? started out a warrior only.. The thing that made warriors special.. Now everyone and their mother has MS.

slightly incorrect.... warriors have always had MS, and rogues have always had wound poison. The only change was some how hunters now have a MS ability. No body else has MS... yet... you think everyone and their mother have MS is because hunters, warrior, rogues are some of the most over played class...

Look at feral druids and compare them to rogues they have almost everything rogues do.

that's as ignorant as saying shadow priest is the same as warlocks because they do almost everything the same...

It is true that blizzard have given other classes similar abilities but that doesn't mean everyone should have everything.

Paladins do not need a snare. They can do enough already

[Ronark]

Then why not change the proposed talent to something like:

Justiciar
Your Judgement of Justice ability now limits the movement speed of the target to (85/70)% for 10 seconds, but the damage it inflicts is reduced by 50%. Judgement of Justice is now considered a magical effect.

There, pallies now have a dispellable snare. They have to choose whether they want damage (judgement of light/wisdom) or the snare, which is a reasonable tradeoff.

Judgement is already a magic effect that can be dispelled.

[Sourjoe]

This is a terrible idea.

Certain specs are just more viable in arenas for certain classes. You don't hear mages going QQ for the fact that its hard to be fire over frost in 2's. Locks accepted that they need to be destro for that extra stun in shadowfury.

You can't have everything thrown to you in one basket. If you want to pvp with a ret pally you need to accept your downfalls. If you want a snare give a warrior a way to de-snare himself outside of bladestorm.

Some things are just the way they are and you need to deal with it. Just go holy and shut it.

[Deleted]

You can't have everything thrown to you in one basket. If you want to pvp with a ret pally you need to accept your downfalls. If you want a snare give a warrior a way to de-snare himself outside of bladestorm.

Oh you mean something like this ?
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=60970

"If war want something to de-snare them they just have to go in the other tree"

Ya see ?
Ret is dps, Holy is heal, i want to dps, no to heal, so no, don't want a FoL spamming gameplay