So, umm, why are we suddenly pissed at eachother?

[Rogue]

Maybe I've missed something obvious, but I can't seem to understand why we're suddenly fighting the Alliance after Deathwhisper, enough so to gun down their ship (or vice-versa). It's not that fighting the Alliance is an irregular thing, but Saurfang holds the quote "Perhaps this could quell the unrest between the Alliance and Horde," and ten minutes later, he's captain of the S.S. Dwarffucker.

Does the Alliance dialogue have something of importance that the Horde doesn't? Because from our side, we go up the elevator, and suddenly it's common knowledge that we're supposed to be sparring each other while Arthas sips tea. Hell, even from that moment, they mention Saurfang waiting for us to assault the Alliance gunship. Also: Where's Fordragon and why doesn't he lecture us again, like in ToC?

So, something secret and invisible happens between Saurfang and the Alliance between the start of the instance, and two bosses later. This fight seems very, very out of place, even rushed. Come to think of it, Saurfang Jr's appearance also seemed out of place and rushed. Not to bitch about rushed content, but this fight in particular irks me every week.

[Kinvarrus]

if you could choose between getting the corpse of your dead and only child, or leave it to your enemys to play with it, what would you do ?

[Rogue]

if you could choose between getting the corpse of your dead and only child, or leave it to your enemys to play with it, what would you do ?

I'd talk to the Alliance and get them to give me the corpse, as any respectable faction would do. It's the least they could do considering Saurfang is pretty intent on saving Bolvar.

This is, of course, assuming we're in some time paradox where both faction kill him with different endings. (And we totally are).

[Scorage]

Devs had a cool idea of their own, and they implemented it. This has previous installements as well.

-Exodar.
-Draenei Shamanism.

There are things they want to have in their game, and most of them are actually cool, but Blizzard's reputation with implementing things while respecting the lore, is weak at best.

Yes, this is their game, they can write what ever they want, bla, bla, bla, bla... I'm not objecting the ideas themselves, but I do not like the way they are implemented. I mean, you are already writing the lore, can't you pay just a bit more attention and make it more logical, or more in line?

I just can't understand this fight as well. Tirion bitched at us to fight TAGATHAH!, and well, we supposedly did. I guess that contract got canceled while 3.3 shipped.

Arthas may not be a badass during his fight in the raid, he may even be easy considering the content-wise decisions of Wrath. But as the game recognizes him, he can wipe the floor with everything alive at the moment. Even Uther's words are confirming this. (Arthas' remaining humanity saving us from total Scourge annihilation? Long shot, but still hits the target I guess. Anything to keep that whiny Bitch Proudmoore going on her emo ways.)

So, what happens indeed. "Hey guys, look, Alliance is going up too." "LEZ KILL EM!"

I mean, the captains themselves, are as badass as they can get. They are both immensely powerful, and they are a whole lot wiser than the rest of us. Saurfang should have known that he may need every ally he can get, considering what he is about to face. (Lich King + Saurfang Junior) Muradin on the other hand, was the last remnant of logic and wisdom before Arthas disposed of him.

-You lied to your own men, and betray the mercenaries that have fought for you? What's happening to you, Arthas?

The line implies he can understand the war, and the consequences, and what is moral.

I just don't get it. Everyone keeps hating Garrosh, and yet Blizz insists on making others act like him. Warcraft races are not known for their Bloodlust against eachother, and I may be very, very off here, but that aspect belongs to Warhammer. This rewriting of lore can't be because Warhammer still has like, 4 servers, right?

If Blizzard wants total annihilation, and all out war, well, they can have it. But at least they should give a proper reason for it.

[Rogue]

Exactly. The Wrathgate incident, along with Garrosh/Varian drama have been excellent conflict arousal thus far. I mean seriously, we all know how many damned Garrosh vs. Varian threads there were, and they're still going on! We've been told that a real war is coming in Cataclysm, but the causes of this war better not be "Because we suddenly hate each other now lol." They need to go back to the mounting tension that was 3.1 and 3.2, not spew disconnected fighting all over the Icecrown raid.

[Lightfist]

After the mishap with the Assault at Icecrown, I don't think most Alliance and Horde soldiers trust each other. Muradin and Saurfang both want to end the hostility, but maybe they understand that their troops wouldn't fight well together. Maybe the distrust would even end in defeat. *shrug*

[Iyenrith]

I just don't get it. Everyone keeps hating Garrosh, and yet Blizz insists on making others act like him. Warcraft races are not known for their Bloodlust against eachother, and I may be very, very off here, but that aspect belongs to Warhammer. This rewriting of lore can't be because Warhammer still has like, 4 servers, right?

You're forgetting that the Warcraft universe has a LOT of similarities to Warhammer, because Warhammer was around long before WoW (or even warcraft 1) in the table-top game

From what I have heard, Blizzard originally wanted to license the warhammer universe but Games-Workshop wouldn't allow them, and they said (@I# you and made Warcraft. (not sure where i heard it, could be false)

But even from a practical stand-point, conflict leads to a more rich storyline and it only makes sense for them to add it

[gunner_recall]

After the mishap with the Assault at Icecrown, I don't think most Alliance and Horde soldiers trust each other. Muradin and Saurfang both want to end the hostility, but maybe they understand that their troops wouldn't fight well together. Maybe the distrust would even end in defeat. *shrug*

A lesser of two evils kind of thing. It makes sense.

[Lightfist]

A lesser of two evils kind of thing. It makes sense.

Yeah, plus Jetpacks. That makes it worth it.

[seam]

There are things they want to have in their game, and most of them are actually cool, but Blizzard's reputation with implementing things while respecting the lore, is weak at best.

Yes, this is their game, they can write what ever they want, bla, bla, bla, bla... I'm not objecting the ideas themselves, but I do not like the way they are implemented. I mean, you are already writing the lore, can't you pay just a bit more attention and make it more logical, or more in line?

Almost everything they write FITS current lore while adding MORE.

There have been very few 'lorelol's so far, and most the time it's due to simple human error (Forgetting that the eredar corrupted Sargeras, not the other way around) or something from the years back (Garona being 1/2 human).

Find me 5 legit times that they flat out screwed up, or made a huge contradiction, I dare you.

[Palamedic]

I think its because we are still under orders to kill the Horde whenever possible.

Both Garrosh and Varian still hates each other. However, Varian is acting out due to what he believed was the loss of Bolvar. Thanks to the battle of Deathbringer Saurfang and the knowledge that Bolvar is still alive, Varian realized he really didn't lose anything and saw that the Horde took an even greater casualty. After all that fighting, a proper burial is the least he could do.

Garrosh, personally, hasn't lost anything except a reason to continue to fight a war with the Alliance in the Northrend front. He still likes to see them wiped out, as far as I can tell.

Mauridin and Saurfang were just doing their job thanks to those two.

[Primaryjane]

Just remember, according to Lore, Alliance is the alleged "Bad Guy"

[Lightfist]

Just remember, according to Lore, Alliance is the alleged "Bad Guy"

Ummm...yeah...

*pats head softly*

[Kaneiac]

(Forgetting that the eredar corrupted Sargeras, not the other way around)

Wait what?

Sargeras got corrupted from fighting demons and evil across galaxies.

The Eredar were a peaceful race.

He met the Eredar for the first time (I believe) after his fall. He was corrupted when he offered the Triumvirate of the Eredar (Velen, KJ, Archi) lieutenant ranks in his new order, the Burning Legion.

Lorelol of your own? Unless it used to be the other way around at first, this is how I remember it being when I first read about this stuff years ago.

Anyways, it's just strictly so the encounter could be added, I imagine. Once they reach the top of the Citadel, for the most part, the leaders seem to not...hate eachother, spare for Muradin who shows some hostility.

[Zenotetsuken]

You're forgetting that the Warcraft universe has a LOT of similarities to Warhammer, because Warhammer was around long before WoW (or even warcraft 1) in the table-top game

From what I have heard, Blizzard originally wanted to license the warhammer universe but Games-Workshop wouldn't allow them, and they said (@I# you and made Warcraft. (not sure where i heard it, could be false)

Yeah I heard the same thing long ago when the game was new. Something along the lines of Blizz (or a 3rd party) made the core of the game for a Warhammer mmo, it was taking awhile due to it's massive size and the big wigs just saw it as a hole they were throwing money into. So they stopped paying, and Blizz picked it up and gutted alot of it and added it's own style.

Find video of the original WoW concept from like 1998 or somehting like that. It is amazing how much changed between then and release.

[gunner_recall]

Ummm...yeah...

*pats head softly*

Varian wants to "purge the unclean", Staghelm is racist, pretty much all night elves are elitists. Gnomes. Pretty much only good races are Dwarves and Draenei.

Horde's not much better...but we don't have gnomes so...

Edit: I just realized something....the entire Citadel is made out of saronite....that stuff drives you crazy so it's possible that it's influencing the Alliance and Horde and making them hyper-aggressive.

[Deleted]

Wait what?

Sargeras got corrupted from fighting demons and evil across galaxies.

The Eredar were a peaceful race.

He met the Eredar for the first time (I believe) after his fall. He was corrupted when he offered the Triumvirate of the Eredar (Velen, KJ, Archi) lieutenant ranks in his new order, the Burning Legion.

Lorelol of your own? Unless it used to be the other way around at first, this is how I remember it being when I first read about this stuff years ago.

In the original lore (before BC, that is), the Eredar were one of the first races conscripted into the Burning Legion, and were demonic to start with. They, along the Nathrezim, were the ones who corrupted Sargeras. So, yeah, the Draenei lore was a retcon, but I think it was one for the better.

[seam]

Lorelol of your own? Unless it used to be the other way around at first, this is how I remember it being when I first read about this stuff years ago.

You have the new way down, but the original way things happend (I think it's actually in the WoW manual, that or the WC3 manual) after fighting the Dreadlords and Eredar he became to get corrupted and stuffs.

When BC came out Metzen forgot, and made the Draenie come from the Eredar after Sargeras corrupted them, when it was the other way around.

Metzen came out and said "woops" basicly :P

[gunner_recall]

You have the new way down, but the original way things happend (I think it's actually in the WoW manual, that or the WC3 manual) after fighting the Dreadlords and Eredar he became to get corrupted and stuffs.

When BC came out Metzen forgot, and made the Draenie come from the Eredar after Sargeras corrupted them, when it was the other way around.

Metzen came out and said "woops" basicly :P

He literally did...but I'm pretty sure he didn't actually know about it...I might be wrong but I remember one of them saying that they had no idea about the original lore.

[serif]

I hope i don't offend anyone by using real world foreign countries (to me at least) as an example of what i think is going on.

I for one think the alliance and horde sides are both very proud and fancy themselves superior to their counterparts. During the assault each side wants to lead the charge and claim responsbility for arthas' demise. It's kind of like how say England and France consider each other inferior (maybe im thinking too much of soccer 'futbol' rivalries) and would love to see the other side fail but in the end will work together towards a common goal in desperate times.

I just think the whole airship fight is about 'YAY We're badass we're gonna win, oh shit who's that, screw you horde/ally fags this is our fight' and then a little brawl breaks out and we just set the other side back a few days while they repair their ship (its not like we go on a murderous rampage and completely wipe them out).

oh well. thats all i got.

on that note, i think it'd be pretty sweet if during the arthas encounter somehow alliance and horde raids got to fight together in the same instance... although the logistics of that are significantly less than convenient. lol