Snares, Gap Closers, and Interrupts!

[grimmhammer]

Not really though.

These are several ideas to enhance Retribution's PvP mobility and ability to deter the free casting of hostiles without giving the spec carbon-copies of traditional abilities.


Pursuit of Justice (swaps position with Sanctified Retribution)

Reduces the duration of all Disarm effects by 25/50% and increases movement and mounted movement speed by 8/15%. In addition, your Cleanse spell also has a 50/100% chance to attempt to remove 1 movement impairing effect when cast on yourself. The movement speed increasing portion of this talent does not stack with other movement speed increasing effects.


Repentance (removed from GCD)

9% of base mana 20 yd range
Instant cast 1 min cooldown
Puts the enemy target in a state of meditation, incapacitating them for up to 1 min and interrupting spell casting for 3 seconds. Any damage caused will awaken the target. Only one target may be Repented at a time. Usable against Demons, Dragonkin, Giants, Humanoids and Undead.

Fanaticism

Increases the critical strike chance of all Judgements capable of a critical hit by 6/12/18% and reduces threat caused by all actions by 10/20/30% except when under the effects of Righteous Fury. In addition, causes your damaging Crusader Strike spells to reduce the cooldown of Repentance by 12 seconds.


First change allows Cleanse to attempt to remove 1 disease, 1 poison, 1 magic, and 1 snare effect when cast on yourself.

This would make for better mobility and allow HoF to be used more prudently, or exclusively on partners. Cleansing yourself against opponents like Frost Mages would not be as much of an impossible mana wasting process, because the magic dispel portion could potentially remove the Frost Nova, but if it doesn't and removes 1 of 5 stacks of Winter's chill, the movement impairing dispel portion will only target the Frost Nova. In addition, it allows the cleansing of physical snares from yourself.

The second change allows Repentance to also interrupt casting and removes it from the GCD. The idea is for the spell to function similarly to how HoJ used to function when it interrupted casting of players. This was considered a bad mechanic and scrapped because the devs felt that it was a cheesy and clumsy mechanic in PvP to have a stun + interrupt in one spell. However, it was beautifully balanced and very effective.

The ability gave HoJ a very powerful way to interrupt heals, catch a poly cast and lockout blink, lockout shadow spells from Warlocks to prevent fear casts etc. It did all that an interrupt would do, but it also meant that the stun of HoJ was used as well. This was a balancing factor, as if the stun stuck it's duration, it was a stun and not an interrupt, if the stun broke, it was an interrupt and a short stun. A standalone interrupt combined with HoJ and Repentance becomes too much lockdown for Ret, but if one of the other lockout effects are triggered at the same time, it does not become as overbearing.

The third change is to cause CS to take 12 seconds off of Repentance's cooldown with each successful hit. This change was made because 1 minute is too long a cooldown for an interrupt / gap closer ability, but about right for a CC.

Instead of lowering the cooldown and making it too powerful for CC, it is changed so that it can be used about every 16-20 seconds given the proper conditions of melee range / prioritizing Crusader Strike. This puts a limiting factor on it's decreased cooldown, that is less overtuned for locking a target down.

[Schippi]

i am sorry, but santa claus denied

[Powell]

WTB moar threads about interrupts/slows/gap closers..

please any moderator just make a sticky where paladins can put their ideas, theres like a million of these already.
the repentance seems nice though, you can sacrifice a CC for a interrupt, and an additional interrupt for PvE could be handy.
but not with the Fanatiscm part, either one or the other, not both, evenso there should be a limit to like 30seconds or smt.

the PuJ part is OP, and you prolly know it.

[grimmhammer]

As we all know from PvE, CS cannot be used on cooldown when you are filling your GCD budget with other abilities, and as we all know from PvP, you can't spend 100% of your GCDs on DPS, and you can't spend 100% of your time in melee.

Those things considered, Fanaticism would only realistically allow for Repentance about every 30 or more seconds.

As far as PoJ being OP I simply disagree with you.

Ret Paladins don't have the mana bar to support cleanse spamming, and even if they did Snares are more reliable than cleanse, so removing a snare usually means about 1.5 secs before another is applied.

Therefore, I feel that spending a GCD and 5% Base mana on Cleanse warrants the spell targeting a snare each cast when cast on the Paladin, who's mobility is based on clearing movement impairments rather than applying them.

[Ronark]

I don't like Repent being a CC and an interrupt.

What happens when I need to CC a mob, but then interrupt another?



EDIT: The more I think about this, why not make Seal of Justice deal the same damage as the old Seal of Command (i.e. SoC with no chain effect) and give a chance to reduce movement speed by X for 4 seconds instead of a chance to stun?

[grimmhammer]

I don't like Repent being a CC and an interrupt.

What happens when I need to CC a mob, but then interrupt another?

CC with Repentance, interrupt with HoJ.

[Powell]

a interrupt on 30 sec cd ok.
wind shear/kick/mindfreeze/slam say hai.

you paladins have to stop saying "ohlook, that class has that interrupt and that snare, and that MS effect, why cant i have it?" its getting really old. work with what you have and take it as a challenge.
if you cant handle it then you either come up with a good idea or reroll a class that has them and stop whining about it.

on the PoJ reply:
how many classes have an undispellable snare?
blood dks, with the glyph, wich i rarely ever see in arena, and warriors.

they are both melee classes, they are bound to melee you eitherway, if are tunnelvisioning their partner in arena and just keep chasing him then your doing it wrong. force them into defensive.

anyway
if you want a change make it either work like enhancement shamans have with frostshock.

Path of Justice:
increases the range of Judgement of Justice by 10yards, in addition your Judgement of Justice has 50/100% chance to increases your movement speed by X% for 3seconds, if used on targets at or further then 15 yards from you.

or

Grasping Justice:
increases the range of Judgement of Justice by 10yards, in addition your Judgement of Justice has 50/100% chance to root the target for 3seconds, if used on targets at or further then 15 yards from you.
or
increases the range of Judgement of Justice by 10yards, in addition your Judgement of Justice has 50/100% chance to slow the target by X% for 3seconds, if used on targets at or further then 15 yards from you.

or

Holy Hands:
whenever your HoF is dispelled the cooldown is reset to Xseconds
or
Whenever your HoF is dispelled you are immune to snares, roots and movement imparing effects for Xseconds
or
HoF is undispellable
or
Whenever HoF is dispelled the dispeller is rooted for Xseconds.

[Kairu]

Holy Hands:
whenever your HoF is dispelled the cooldown is reset to Xseconds
or
Whenever your HoF is dispelled you are immune to snares, roots and movement imparing effects for Xseconds
or
HoF is undispellable
or
Whenever HoF is dispelled the dispeller is rooted for Xseconds.

This, I like.

[grimmhammer]

on the PoJ reply:
how many classes have an undispellable snare?
blood dks, with the glyph, wich i rarely ever see in arena, and warriors.

they are both melee classes, they are bound to melee you eitherway, if are tunnelvisioning their partner in arena and just keep chasing him then your doing it wrong. force them into defensive.

It's really not to help with snares that are currently undispellable, it's main function would be to simply ensure that if you're casting cleanse on yourself it's going to be targeting any active slows no matter what.

If this change went through only bad Paladins would dump mana and GCDs dispelling something like Hamstring off of themselves over and over again.

It's more about preventing 5-6 at a time Cleanse sprees to remove one snare / root.

anyway
if you want a change make it either work like enhancement shamans have with frostshock.



Grasping Justice:
increases the range of Judgement of Justice by 10yards, in addition your Judgement of Justice has 50/100% chance to root the target for 3seconds, if used on targets at or further then 15 yards from you.
or
increases the range of Judgement of Justice by 10yards, in addition your Judgement of Justice has 50/100% chance to slow the target by X% for 3seconds, if used on targets at or further then 15 yards from you.

Those are very cool ideas, and are pretty unique mechanics. however I just don't feel like there are snares in store for Paladins.

Holy Hands:
whenever your HoF is dispelled the cooldown is reset to Xseconds
or
Whenever your HoF is dispelled you are immune to snares, roots and movement imparing effects for Xseconds
or
HoF is undispellable
or
Whenever HoF is dispelled the dispeller is rooted for Xseconds.

Those are all far more powerful than the PoJ change I posted.

[Guesswho69]

Did blessing of freedom magically disappear or something between last night and today?

The only thing a pally would need more of is an interrupt, but a gap closer? Do you know how much damage a paladin can unload on a toon in the space of 5-10 seconds?

[Ronark]

Did blessing of freedom magically disappear or something between last night and today?

The only thing a pally would need more of is an interrupt, but a gap closer? Do you know how much damage a paladin can unload on a toon in the space of 5-10 seconds?

Do you know who much damage a Warlock/mage/ele shaman unload on a toon in the space of 3-5 seconds?

[Kairu]

Did blessing of freedom magically disappear or something between last night and today?

The only thing a pally would need more of is an interrupt, but a gap closer? Do you know how much damage a paladin can unload on a toon in the space of 5-10 seconds?

It removes the roots, it removes the stun, then either gets dispelled, or it takes you another 12 seconds to get TO your target, in which case the blessing is gone, and you are now rooted.

[Baabinator]

My idea's would lead to a slightly-weaker-VS-melee retribution paladin, and slightly-stronger-VS-casters retribution paladin

Swift Retribution:
Your aura's also increase casting, ranged, and melee attack speeds by 1/2/3%. In addition, whenever you succesfully dispel a magic effect from yourself your movement and attack speed are increased by 5/10/15% for 3 seconds.

Divine Purpose:
Reduces your chance to be hit by spells and ranged attacks by 2/4% and gives your Hand of Freedom spell a 50/100% chance to remove any Stun effects on the target, and causes your Judgement of Wisdom to increase the target's mana cost by 150/200% for 5 seconds.

The Art of War
Increases the damage of your Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm abilities by 4% and when your melee attacks critically hit your next Flash of Light or Exorcism spell becomes instant cast. And increases the range of your Judgement of Justice by 10/20 yards and slow the target down by 15/30% for 3/6 seconds, but reduces the damage of your Judgement of Justice by 10/20%.

And in addition to the Art of War talent change, this talent should compliment it.

Fanaticism:
Increases the critical strike chance of all Judgements capable of a critical hit by 4/8/12% and reduces threat caused by all actions by 10/20/30% except when under the effects of Righteous Fury. In addition, your Judgement of Justice ability now has a 50/100% chance to interrupt enemy spells, locking out that school for 5 seconds but increases the cooldown of Judgement of Justice by 5/10 seconds

Hope you like, and it isn't too overpowered

[Ronark]

Why did you nerf my PvE?

[Kairu]

The Art of War
Increases the damage of your Judgement, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm abilities by 4% and when your melee attacks critically hit your next Flash of Light or Exorcism spell becomes instant cast. And increases the range of your Judgement of Justice by 10/20 yards and slow the target down by 15/30% for 3/6 seconds, but reduces the damage of your Judgement of Justice by 10/20%.

And in addition to the Art of War talent change, this talent should compliment it.

Fanaticism:
Increases the critical strike chance of all Judgements capable of a critical hit by 4/8/12% and reduces threat caused by all actions by 10/20/30% except when under the effects of Righteous Fury. In addition, your Judgement of Justice ability now has a 50/100% chance to interrupt enemy spells, locking out that school for 5 seconds but increases the cooldown of Judgement of Justice by 5/10 seconds

Hope you like, and it isn't too overpowered

Maybe, just make the first one range, no slowing, and keep the second one as the 17s interrupt.

Issue would be, though, other judgements stay up? (Light,wisdom) OR would all 3 be gone for the timer?

[grimmhammer]

Did blessing of freedom magically disappear or something between last night and today?

The only thing a pally would need more of is an interrupt, but a gap closer? Do you know how much damage a paladin can unload on a toon in the space of 5-10 seconds?

Hand of Freedom is a very powerful mechanic, and combined with cleanse and PoJ /JoJ is probably enough for Paladins to have good mobility while still being slightly weak against kiters.

The problem is that HoF is 9/10 better used on a partner, leaving a void in the Paladin's mobility toolkit.

The idea I posted is simply a selfish mechanic for Paladins to keep their 'get out of jail(snares) free card' mechanic on themselves when they are using their most powerful group utility member on a group member.