Which meta for enhancement?

[Eramyl]

I am using chaotic at the moment, with a +10 stats gems in my t9.25 chest for the blue socket bonus and a +6 stats gem in the 25m TOC pants off Anub for the socket bonus as well.

Two guildies tell me two different things. One says keep what i have, the other says I need a relentless ( 21 agi and + crit dmg) as to only have one prismatic. He also mentioned that i should only use chaotic when i have the set bonuses to compensate for using two prismatics. The chest set bonus is either 12 or 16 AP and the legs are 6 agi I belive.

TL;DR What meta do i use when.

[skyclops]

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20765-shaman_enhancement/

[sicness]

[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] is the best choice for a metagem as it only requires 1 sub-optimum blue gem. However if you have 2 socket bonuses that you want to activate that require blue gems then the [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is an acceptable alternative. These gems will scale with your crit rating. The 3% crit damage can be roughly approximated to raise your DPS by 0.03 * Crit Rate. At 30% crit rate this amounts to roughly 1% gain in damage dealt.

For easy reference.

[Applesaus]

*sigh* Why does everyone just blindly quote EJ for everything and assume it is the ultimate word? I don't know if you guys bothered to even look at anything else on that page, I'd guess not, because if you had you would have noticed that it is WAAAYYY out of date.

The paragraph just above what you guys quoted says "In general terms, Hit and Crit gems will have the highest return for investment. Shaman that are geared in Sunwell items will probably find that Agility or just AP gems are superior. Simulation is required to find the best fit for your gear."

The section just above that suggests that http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42607 is the best option for our totem slot.

I dunno about you guys but I'm not still in BC nor am I still in Sunwell gear, and no way in hell am I still gemming hit and crit or using the glad totem over QE. The relevant information from this page is the bolded portion. The lesson today is have some common sense and think a little for yourselves. The Enh Shaman F.A.Q is regularly updated and is a more relevant resource for information.

To the OP: My suggestion would be to sim it. I just use Rawr and check my DPS with each meta gem in the slot and use whichever is superior. Generally I would say that Chaotic Skyflare is better but that may depend on your gear, I can't say for sure. Read the the Enhance Shaman F.A.Q gems section for a little more info.

[Gargz]

woooaaahhh Apple, I didnt say you could shamrage yet. Have a beer sir. After drinking that beer, if you wish to shamrage then go ahead. :P

[Applesaus]

woooaaahhh Apple, I didnt say you could shamrage yet. Have a beer sir. After drinking that beer, if you wish to shamrage then go ahead. :P

I gots a little frustrated wif dese here silly brainless people :P

P.S. where have you been Gargz? You quit for a while or somethin?

[Eramyl]

The EJ guide confirmed both mine and my guildies arguments, so please don't be so rash with others, yesterdays information can still be viable today.

Another question, it mentions if I have 2 socket bonuses i wish to fulfill then chaotic is the way to go. Which bonuses are worth it? I know 16 ap is and that is where I have my nightmare tear, but is 6 agi worth an enchanted tear? Or should i look for 12 ap or more agi?

[Barawr]

Another question, it mentions if I have 2 socket bonuses i wish to fulfill then chaotic is the way to go. Which bonuses are worth it? I know 16 ap is and that is where I have my nightmare tear, but is 6 agi worth an enchanted tear? Or should i look for 12 ap or more agi?

This is where the sim WILL help you the most. If you wish to do the math by hand be my guest though. For some the extra physical/spell crit from 21crit vs. 21 agil outweighs the easier to please meta with even a minor socket bonus. For others not so much. Again it all has to do with YOUR gear.

[Eramyl]

My gear is in limbo as I recieved several upgrades last night in ICC, what I am asking is which socket bonuses do i look at fulfiling over others? Or even which ones are great enough to warrant having two prismatics over just one and the R.E.D. meta, such as the 18 ap in the t9.25 chest.

EDIT However if you have 2 socket bonuses that you want to activate that require blue gems then the [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is an acceptable alternative.

2 socket bonuses that you want to activate that require blue gems <---- What size bonuses warrant that.

[Renzokuken]

With the advent of Nightmare Tear, it's generally accepted the CSD plus 2 prismatic +stats gems is a slight DPS increase over RED.

But as has already been said more than once, you should sim both configurations to find which is best for you.

[Deleted]

6 to all stats is 18AP. Add in a 12AP bonus and you get 30 AP. UR makes this 33AP. We get some small amount of crit too but lets just pretend that makes 1 AP. So, 6stats gives you 34AP.
40AP becomes 44 with UR. The difference between the two is 10AP.

So, which do you think is better: 10AP and 21 AGI, or 21 CRIT?

[Applesaus]

The EJ guide confirmed both mine and my guildies arguments, so please don't be so rash with others, yesterdays information can still be viable today.

So you're gemming hit and crit and going for the gladiator's totem?

While it is generally true that most information carries on from day to day, like the assumption that the sun will rise, using out of date information to reach a conclusion when a problem arises is just bad logic. ALL the other info on that page, although it was once relevant and important, is behind by at least 12 months. People once thought that the world was flat, and they were ok with that idea, but when they finally realized that it wasn't it's not like people were saying "we knew the world was flat yesterday, so its still important to think that way today"

In a rapidly changing universe yesterday's information can still have relevance, but it is at risk of becoming obsolete due to new discoveries or changes. This is also true in WoW where things are always changing and new information is being discovered. The availability of gear and information has changed the way that the shaman cummunity plays. My point is that you can't take pre LK theorycrafting and apply it to what we have in front of us now.

I digress, and I wash my hands of this conversation. You may continue thinking that the world is still flat.

[Omanley]

6 to all stats is 18AP. Add in a 12AP bonus and you get 30 AP. UR makes this 33AP. We get some small amount of crit too but lets just pretend that makes 1 AP. So, 6stats gives you 34AP.
40AP becomes 44 with UR. The difference between the two is 10AP.

So, which do you think is better: 10AP and 21 AGI, or 21 CRIT?

+6 all stats gives 18 ap through 6str/agi/int, yes. but do you want to tell me that the melee-crit-part of 6 agility is only worth 1 ap?

1 agility has the same stat budget as 2 ap.

for enh, the stats would look something like that:

2ap = 2 ep
1 agi ~1.7ep
1 crit-r ~ 1.8ep

so 6 agi would be more like => 1.7 *6 = 10.2 ep ( worth 10.2 attackpower in total, take the 6 attackpower and it´s meleecrit component is worth ~4.2 ep/attackpower)

dont forget that intellect adds a little spellcrit

so comparing relentless with chotic could look like this:

21 crit-r + 6 all stats + 12 ap vs 21 agi + 40 ap => 21 crit + 18 ap + melee crit worth +10.2 +12 ap vs 21 agi +40 ap

factoring in blessing of kings, the ep could look like this:

21 * 1.8 + 18*1.1+10.2*1.1+12 vs 21*1.1 +40 => 80.82 vs 63.1

chaotic wins with ~ 17.7 em ( equal to 17.7 attackpower ) assuming agi is worth 1.7 em for you and crit-r 1.8.

sim your stat values and replace them, also replace the socket bonus you get if necessary. keep in mind socket bonuses get better with higher gear. the breastplate dropping from tocg25 beasts has a 16ap bonus for example.

the better your socket bonus the more advantage you will get out of the chaotic one.

do not forget that the +6 stat gem gives also a little evade and armor from agility, a little mana and spellcrit from int, a little manareg from spirit, and everything scales with kings.

[Deleted]

The differences being raidbuffed and assuming a 6 stats gem in a 12 AP blue socket.

21 CRIT gains you an extra 0.17 melee crit, 0.45 spell crit
6 to all stats and whatever that gets you (too hard to value due to rounding, didn't bother)

21 AGI gains you 57AP.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

[sicness]

*sigh* Why does everyone just blindly quote EJ for everything and assume it is the ultimate word? I don't know if you guys bothered to even look at anything else on that page, I'd guess not, because if you had you would have noticed that it is WAAAYYY out of date.

The paragraph just above what you guys quoted says "In general terms, Hit and Crit gems will have the highest return for investment. Shaman that are geared in Sunwell items will probably find that Agility or just AP gems are superior. Simulation is required to find the best fit for your gear."

The section just above that suggests that http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42607 is the best option for our totem slot.

I dunno about you guys but I'm not still in BC nor am I still in Sunwell gear, and no way in hell am I still gemming hit and crit or using the glad totem over QE. The relevant information from this page is the bolded portion. The lesson today is have some common sense and think a little for yourselves. The Enh Shaman F.A.Q is regularly updated and is a more relevant resource for information.

To the OP: My suggestion would be to sim it. I just use Rawr and check my DPS with each meta gem in the slot and use whichever is superior. Generally I would say that Chaotic Skyflare is better but that may depend on your gear, I can't say for sure. Read the the Enhance Shaman F.A.Q gems section for a little more info.

Yet if you read what I quoted from EJ it says exactly what you'd find out in the sim most likely, that if you have two socket bonuses of +12 AP or more that require a blue gem you're better off going for the skyflare one. It's purely based upon your current gear and my quote shows that clearly I thought.