Fury Warriors and Shadowmourne

[Admuntour]

Hello, I'm a officer in a guild progressing in 25 man Icecrown.
Now for the past 4 days I've had some heated debates with a fellow officers over who should get Shadowmourne between a retribution paladin and a fury warrior.
We haven't considered loyalty or attendance cause, the officer in question seems to believe that, since fury warriors dual wield 2h weapons, they scale worst with 2h weapons and in his opinion because of this fury warriors should be the last to get Shadowmourne.

I find this disgusting cause it seems like discrimination against a certain spec just cause its different from the rest of them, even though they do similar DPS.
I set out to prove he was wrong, I looked at DPS logs from world of logs and even ran some Rawr simulation with them in their current gear and in T10 gear. And the warrior and paladin do similar DPS.

The officer in question still doesn't believe me, and I want to bring new evidence to bear.
Now my math isn't so good as to calculate for myself how they would scale with the weapon and T10. So I ask you fellow forumers to give your opinion on the matter and if possible provide me with solid calculations to support my case.

[Pzyclopz]

My lore-sense is tingling. Giving a soul-stealing weapon to a Paladin...

We haven't considered loyalty or attendance cause, the officer in question seems to believe that, since fury warriors dual wield 2h weapons, they scale worst with 2h weapons and in his opinion because of this fury warriors should be the last to get Shadowmourne.

Well you might take loyalty and attendance into account, since (imho), it's only fitting that the most loyal/highest attendant gets the weapon.
Giving the best gear to the person who raids the most is a no-brainer.

[Ceara]

We haven't considered loyalty or attendance cause, the officer in question seems to believe that, since fury warriors dual wield 2h weapons, they scale worst with 2h weapons and in his opinion because of this fury warriors should be the last to get Shadowmourne.

There is your problem. Consider loyalty and attendance and you'll find who deserves it.

If someone has earned it, they have earned it. Don't give it to someone just because of their class, thats how rediculous loot drama starts.

[NGRazor]

Even if its say... 200 dps difference... that's hardly enough to give it to someone who is less loyal.

[DarkenedDaern]

I would give it to the Fury Warrior. As far as I know, Fury Warriors are one of the speccs that scale best with strength as it affects all of their abilities directly, the Fury warrior will also benefit a lot more from the ArP than the paladin will. Fury Warriors get +20% Strength from talents, while Retri paladins get +15% Strength from talents (please correct me, if I'm wrong)

[Deleted]

Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 114.

Paladin?
They scale worst with ArP for what i know.

[Whitcher]

BiS is BiS. Give it to whoever is most loyal/senior/whatever.

[Gyrkan]

Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 114.

Paladin?
They scale worst with ArP for what i know.

Yes that's why i can't even understand why your guild want to give it to a pally, it's the worst thing you could do besides giving it to a hunter(if it would've been possible).

[Alendar]

Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 114.

Paladin?
They scale worst with ArP for what i know.

Armour Penetration will become a much better stat for us Ret Pallies once we have the 2T10 set bonus. We'll be using a lot more physical attacks with that bonus.


OP: There are too many factors involved to calculate who the weapon gives the absolute best DPS for (Who scales best with ArP? Who scales best with a slow weapon? Who scales best from the strength proc? Whose talents make the shadow damage scale best?). It's Best In Slot for all three classes in all specs. Give it to whoever is your best member in terms of loyalty, attendance, performance et cetera.

[Alendar]

Yes that's why i can't even understand why your guild want to give it to a pally, it's the worst thing you could do besides giving it to a hunter(if it would've been possible).

*points at my previous post* And even though ArP may not be the most ideal stat for Ret Pallies, it's still a DPS increase. If Shadowmourne had Haste, would that mean that it should only go to Ret Pallies or Unholy DK's? No. I'm sorry for being rude, but what you are saying is absolutely ridiculous, and anyone who simply dismisses Ret Pallies in this matter, should have their head removed.

[Melynx]

Don't give it to a Pally...

[Stolid]

Going just by class and not considering the important factors such as attendance, ability, etc.. Paladins would receive Shadowmourne last in my guild.

Before any Rets flip their shit, read the first part of the first sentence again. Of course, you WOULD consider who's actually earned it in your raids.

[quez]

The one who deserves it most gets it, if both the fury warrior and the ret pally deserves it then give it to the warrior, since they receive more dps from the stats given.

[Ceara]

The problem with Loot Council is that the council usually really only knows about a small number of specs in the game and their "educated decision" is more or less a guess.

[Szubie]

I would give it to the Fury Warrior. As far as I know, Fury Warriors are one of the speccs that scale best with strength as it affects all of their abilities directly, the Fury warrior will also benefit a lot more from the ArP than the paladin will. Fury Warriors get +20% Strength from talents, while Retri paladins get +15% Strength from talents (please correct me, if I'm wrong)

Ret paladins have a talent that changes 1/3 of all attack power to spell power.

But comparing multipliers isn't the way to decide who gets the weapon. Classes damage dealing abilities are balanced around these multipliers, so it's not as clear cut as 'look, bigger %, means it's better for this class'.

Arp isn't very far behind haste for Ret, and the gap will close even further with 2 piece Tier 10. In Ulduar and ToC, BiS weapons had arpen for retribution, and it's the case again here. I wouldn't say not to give it to a ret paladin, as it's clearly the best weapon for them, as any other class; and while arpen might not benefit them quite as much as other classes, other factors have to be taken into account. For example, with more haste, paladins will get the proc from shadowmourne more often, and with many 'hidden' physical strikes to refresh dots etc which can cause procs on weapons such as Byntoll the Bone Arbiter, Ret may indeed get the most from the proc of the weapon itself.

Really the best way to decide who gets the weapon is by loyalty, performance and dedication. Not by class.

[VincentWolf]

For all the saint that is there in the world, don't give it to a lolret. Whenever you give good loot to a ret, Gods kills a kitten.

[LilLokBigE]

For all the saint that is there in the world, don't give it to a lolret. Whenever you give good loot to a ret, Gods kills a kitten.

This is so so very true.

[Gyrkan]

*points at my previous post* And even though ArP may not be the most ideal stat for Ret Pallies, it's still a DPS increase. If Shadowmourne had Haste, would that mean that it should only go to Ret Pallies or Unholy DK's? No. I'm sorry for being rude, but what you are saying is absolutely ridiculous, and anyone who simply dismisses Ret Pallies in this matter, should have their head removed.

Mature ppl is mature.

[Titanshammer]

I have played around on Rawr with all 3 classes with the different dps specs with Shadowmourne. I have to say all of them are about the same dps with in 100 dps of each other with full BiS gear minus Lich King loot as we haven't seen that yet. So if you are gonna give it to someone, give it to the person that most deserves it.

Also for all the talk about not giving it to a ret pally due to the arpen. I say this.. with our BiS having over 400 haste rating and our 2pc reseting DS Arpen is a good stat to go for, for a dps increase. Our BiS includes but is not limited to... Arpen Boots, Arpen Belt, and maybe Arpen ring... with either Arpen weapon Shadow's Edge / Shadowmourne or Byrntroll ' the Bone Arbiter.

As for the OP, the officer that is saying fury warriors do not benefit from it due to the damage reduction of them dual wielding 2 2handers... he is just a retard.. our fury warrior is always in the top 3 with well above 8k dps..


AGAIN GIVE IT TO THE MOST DESERVING PERSON, LOYALITY, ATTENDENCE, SKILL!!

[Elessa]

Rets actually benefits most from this weapon. Rets have more haste which will trigger the proc more often, more weapon attacks, which also triggers the proc more often. They don't get as much str from it as a fury warrior but they gain more than 60% of the str as Spell Power. They also scale best with weapon damage and speed. They dont get as much benefit fromt he Arp, that's true, but it is not a useless stat either.
People saying that you are stupid if you give it to a ret are probably warriors or blood dks who will never get it.