Fury Warriors and Shadowmourne

[DarkenedDaern]

Hi my name is Spell Damage. Have we met before? I ignore armor and I dont need 100% arp to do a lot damage.

I think I miswrote: I meant, Warrior benefit more from ArP than Paladins, because Warriors doesn't have spell damage, which Paladins do. It was in response to Aelith, who said that Warriors only scaled with strength.

[Lucky_]

with the 2 piece t10 bonus arp will be much better for paladins than it ever has been

Still being valued as "bad stat, avoid". As opposed to warriors in general who live by it. As opposed to blood DKs, who live by it. As opposed by UH DKs, who have it valued far higher then rets ever will.

ArP is best for warriors, great for DKs after current patch, and average at best for rets. You can dance around that fact all you want, it won't change. Not with T10 bonuses, not with "will spam more physical attacks", nor with anything else. At least until judgements and seals start doing physical damage, or at least be affected in some way by ArP.

Spell power abilities simply do too much of their total damage for paladins to take ArP seriously in the current patch without major changes. UH DKs were in the same boat until 3.3 patch. They were "changed" to want ArP as much as blood DKs and almost as much as warriors. Paladins did not have such a change.


All that said, frostmourne is BiS for all three classes, hands down. Crying "who will get most out of it", in terms of absolute value is warrior > DK > pally. In terms of value for the guild, it's still the person with best play skill and attendance.

[Naydie]

/facepalm

It's only annoying kids who will try to make you believe an orange pixels item is better for their spec, just so they can get it.

IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT'S THE LAST INSTANCE. GIVE IT TO SOMEONE WHO DESERVES IT MOST REGARDLESS OF CLASS.

There.

[Lucky_]

It should also be noted that if current theorycrafting holds, then 2nd BiS weapon for paladin - heroic Bryntroll will most likely be very close behind Shadowmourne for paladins due to its fast speed and it proccing on judgements.

[6ev4enko]

I think I miswrote: I meant, Warrior benefit more from ArP than Paladins, because Warriors doesn't have spell damage, which Paladins do. It was in response to Aelith, who said that Warriors only scaled with strength.

No you didnt miswrite, what I tried to say is that paladins have abilities that benefit from ArP ( crusader strike and divine storm ) which are less than warrior's BUT paladins dont need the ArP for other skills like Exorcism and Consencration and judgement. Which means ArP isnt bad for pallies.

[DarkenedDaern]

No you didnt miswrite, what I tried to say is that paladins have abilities that benefit from ArP ( crusader strike and divine storm ) which are less than warrior's BUT paladins dont need the ArP for other skills like Exorcism and Consencration and judgement. Which means ArP isnt bad for pallies.

I never said ArP was bad for a paladin, I only said that Warrior's benefit more from it

[Spectrez]

Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 114.

Paladin?
They scale worst with ArP for what i know.

Armor pen for pally? lawl give it to the fury warr. even if the pally is 10 times more loyal than the warr. that is a waste if you give arm pen to a pally..

[Fano7]

the Fury warrior will also benefit a lot more from the ArP than the paladin will. Fury Warriors get +20% Strength from talents, while Retri paladins get +15% Strength from talents (please correct me, if I'm wrong)

Rets will be doing alot more physical dmg with T10. While Paladins only get +15% strength, the strength goes to ap which goes to +30% sp. Also, it is techincally best to give it to a ret pally. They gain the most out of the proc, doing the most attacks per min, and the scale better with the stats. Look it up if you don't believe me.

[6ev4enko]

FOR THE PEOPLE SAYING THAT ARP IS BAD FOR RET:

Get some fucking knowledge of the fucking ret paladin. And read some of my posts little above and FIGURE OUT that we need ArP for only 2 skills and the other skills ( spells ) get more damage from SP ( which is got from Str ) AND IGNORE ARMOR. Which EQUALS warrior benefiting from ArP for all abilities.

[DarkenedDaern]

Rets will be doing alot more physical dmg with T10. While Paladins only get +15% strength, the strength goes to ap which goes to +30% sp. Also, it is techincally best to give it to a ret pally. They gain the most out of the proc, doing the most attacks per min, and the scale better with the stats. Look it up if you don't believe me.

"Equip: Your weapon swings have a chance to drain a Soul Fragment granting you 40 strength. When you have acquired 10 Soul Fragments you will unleash Chaos Bane, dealing 1900 to 2100 shadow damage split between all enemies within 8 yards." - please, enlighten me, because I don't really think that a Paladin has more weapon swings per minute than a Fury Warrior

[Weena2]

I'm not trolling here but to be honest how does the ret do equal dps to the fury warrior? Fury warriors do insane dps at the moment and i would say if they're both doing equal dps and have equal attendance and loyalty, well your better off giving it to the ret.

EDIT: reading all this, wouldnt Shadowmourne be best for a Blood DK over any other classs/spec?

[6ev4enko]

Which means that you will lose the stacks faster.

[DaGhostDS]

so much misinformation in this thread its laughable..
Attendance and loyalty 1st

last i checked the proc scale with damage modifier like http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31868 and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20057
and
+15% str and 30% of your ap in Spell power wich is used by all attack

[DarkenedDaern]

Which means that you will lose the stacks faster.

Ah, true, true, you got me there - but then we'll have more of the AoE dmg proccs, so we'll see

[fabian]

so much misinformation in this thread its laughable..
Attendance and loyalty 1st

last i checked the proc scale with damage modifier like http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31868 and http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20057
and
+15% str and 30% of your ap in Spell power wich is used by all attack

If it scales with talents, would that mean Unholy DKs could potentially have a new spec, only when said DK has Shadowmourne?

[Ascal]

Give it to the most loyal raider/ the one with most attendance.....
FFS i could write hundreds of words explaining why this weapon is best given to a ret. then again i am definitely biased.
and i am sure a warrior could write thousands of words why this weapon is best given to a warrior. then again, he is biased.
if you're looking for a definite answer, you won't find it in this forum.

give it to the person who deserves it most. end of story.

[Derlan]

So, Im just going to say, Shadowmourne is perfectly itemized for Warriors and blood dk's, its great but not perfectly itemized for ret paladins, unholy dk, or frost dk.

Now, I could be incredibly wrong since i dont track these changes terribly closely, but if i recall Slam, is still not weaponspeed normalized. This means that the 3.7 speed allows the player to utilize more of their attack power on that ability, making that proc hit harder. Couple this with the 4piece tier set and frankly i find it difficult to imagine a more perfectly itemized for warrior weapon.

That said....I have no idea how well the 10 stack proc scales with spell power or if it even does and that could play a fair role in who the axe is "best" for

[haaku]

All i see i retri paladins saying that will benefit more from it than a fury war, with nearly no data to back it up.

really, give it to the most loyal one, benefit or not.

[Juikkinen]

Hello, I'm a officer in a guild progressing in 25 man Icecrown.
Now for the past 4 days I've had some heated debates with a fellow officers over who should get Shadowmourne between a retribution paladin and a fury warrior.
We haven't considered loyalty or attendance cause, the officer in question seems to believe that, since fury warriors dual wield 2h weapons, they scale worst with 2h weapons and in his opinion because of this fury warriors should be the last to get Shadowmourne.

I find this disgusting cause it seems like discrimination against a certain spec just cause its different from the rest of them, even though they do similar DPS.
I set out to prove he was wrong, I looked at DPS logs from world of logs and even ran some Rawr simulation with them in their current gear and in T10 gear. And the warrior and paladin do similar DPS.

The officer in question still doesn't believe me, and I want to bring new evidence to bear.
Now my math isn't so good as to calculate for myself how they would scale with the weapon and T10. So I ask you fellow forumers to give your opinion on the matter and if possible provide me with solid calculations to support my case.

Its just a pixalz :<

[Glnger]

give it to the person that isn't gonna /gquit the next day for a more progressed guild