New Ret cc/interrupt idea!

[Nikoll]

There are a hundred ways to give us an interrupt while also making us sacrifice something else that are better than completely fucking us over by taking away our Hand spells. Some of them have already been suggested in this thread. I've suggested one way myself.

Giving up burst is fine. Giving up a little CC is fine. Giving up the ability to do any hand spell, when all three of them are integral in PvP (HoF is self explanatory, HoS is self explanatory, glyphed HoSalv is incredible) goes beyond that. It is crippling. Most decent paladins would just end up ignoring their "interrupt," since what is the point of having an interrupt if it simultaneously interrupts YOU?

That's what the tooltip on the ability should read: Interrupts your target and yourself, and for the next 10 seconds, neither you nor he can cast anything useful."

Do you not understand how blizzard thinks here? If we get an interupt it is going to be one that is so useless in pvp it will not be useful and in pve a last resort. We have been asking and suggesting things for years. And i think the closest we have gotten was giving up bubble for it (completely against that). Do i nessisarily want this? no. Do i think it is the only way we will get it? Yes.

[Ronark]

rogues can has stunlock+spelllock. Hunters can chain cc+silence , so do dk's , mages, others.

I was being pro-active to stop the QQ that people would yell for giving paladins an interrupt by making it cause a small CD on HoJ.

[Athael]

Do you not understand how blizzard thinks here? If we get an interupt it is going to be one that is so useless in pvp it will not be useful and in pve a last resort. We have been asking and suggesting things for years. And i think the closest we have gotten was giving up bubble for it (completely against that). Do i nessisarily want this? no. Do i think it is the only way we will get it? Yes.

I disagree. Blizzard doesn't 'hate' paladins, as much as you'd like to think they do. I've played a ret paladin since 2.2. They didn't get remotely competitive in any way, shape or form until 2.3. They didn't get OP until 3.0 (And believe me, they were OP in 3.0. I remember bubbling and popping wings, then taking out 4 guys at once with a pure holy damage Divine Storm). Blizzard overbuffed the class and the only reason they've nerfed us so many times is because, in their own words, they were afraid to overnerf us after everything we've gone through, and that's why they didn't do it enough the first time, or the second time, or even the third.

It's bad economic sense to hate your customers, especially when ret paladins are currently taking up the biggest market share of class/specs in the game. They want to fix us, they just don't know how. There are some good ideas out there, and some bad ones. God knows Blizzard has made lots of mistakes.

But your idea just sucks above and beyond any nerf they've ever given us.

[Ronark]

But your idea just sucks above and beyond any nerf they've ever given us.

Pretty much.

[Nikoll]

I disagree. Blizzard doesn't 'hate' paladins, as much as you'd like to think they do. I've played a ret paladin since 2.2. They didn't get remotely competitive in any way, shape or form until 2.3. They didn't get OP until 3.0 (And believe me, they were OP in 3.0. I remember bubbling and popping wings, then taking out 4 guys at once with a pure holy damage Divine Storm). Blizzard overbuffed the class and the only reason they've nerfed us so many times is because, in their own words, they were afraid to overnerf us after everything we've gone through, and that's why they didn't do it enough the first time, or the second time, or even the third.

It's bad economic sense to hate your customers, especially when ret paladins are currently taking up the biggest market share of class/specs in the game. They want to fix us, they just don't know how. There are some good ideas out there, and some bad ones. God knows Blizzard has made lots of mistakes.

But your idea just sucks above and beyond any nerf they've ever given us.

I'll never say that 3.0 wasnt way too much. I hit someone for 48k that day. 48 god damn kay. And my ret gear was hog-poj heroic and s2 gear and gorehowl. did have wings and zerker buff, though. (wish i still had the SS. damn CPU crash).

And i still stand by if we are getting an interupt it wont be a bread and butter one like a rogue/war. We will have to give up something. Even if it is it shares a CD with HoF. We WILL have to give up something.

[Athael]

I'll never say that 3.0 wasnt way too much. I hit someone for 48k that day. 48 god damn kay. And my ret gear was hog-poj heroic and s2 gear and gorehowl. did have wings and zerker buff, though. (wish i still had the SS. damn CPU crash).

And i still stand by if we are getting an interupt it wont be a bread and butter one like a rogue/war. We will have to give up something. Even if it is it shares a CD with HoF. We WILL have to give up something.

See, that's the thing. I was running around in a mix of S4 and T6 in 3.0 and the wotlk beta. I was absolutely destroying people. I was practically a raid boss. Immunity + 50% damage buff + holy damage divine storm = get a tank and a few healers to kill me, because you're gonna be there a while. Oh shit, I'm low? Lay on hands, and phase 2 begins! With any luck my unlimited mana will keep me up until my bubble comes off cooldown again!

I enjoyed it a lot, because it felt like, after more than a year of getting fucked in the ass by any other class at all, I was finally getting some payback. But that had to end, sadly.

Back on topic: Giving something up is, as I said, fine. Paladins have thus far been balanced without an interrupt, if they were to get one, I would expect it to require a choice.

But forcing us to choose between interrupting and locking out all our major PvP abilities is not a choice. At least, it's not a choice anyone but a retard would make.

Remember back to either 3.2 or 3.1 on the PTR. For about a day, the patch notes read something like, "If Crusader Strike is used on an enemy while they are casting, their damage and healing is reduced by 50% for X seconds." It was taken off the patch notes later and the devs said it found its way there by accident.

THAT is the kind of choice that I'd consider reasonable. You now have to choose whether to unload a full rotation of attacks, or hold off on one of your key damaging strikes until the enemy starts casting, thus hurting your DPS. That tradeoff is much more reasonable.

[Nikoll]

one of our attacks being an interupt isnt something that will happen. wow has moved to off GCD interupts and i dont see them giving us one that has a gcd.

how about as i said in my last post, it shareing a CD with hof? a choice, one that can hurt you in pvp if you choose to make it, while not being all that much of a pve change where hof is very situational.

[Athael]

one of our attacks being an interupt isnt something that will happen. wow has moved to off GCD interupts and i dont see them giving us one that has a gcd.

how about as i said in my last post, it shareing a CD with hof? a choice, one that can hurt you in pvp if you choose to make it, while not being all that much of a pve change where hof is very situational.

We understand what you're proposing, repeating it won't suddenly make us have a change of heart. We just don't like the idea. There are some sacrifices that are acceptable, and some that are not. I agree that, however unfair we might feel it is, they probably will not give us a free interrupt without any sacrifice on our parts. However, I am not willing to sacrifice any Hand spell, be it Freedom or any other, for an interrupt. I get more use out of those than I would an interrupt in most situations.

I would be willing to have to choose between an interrupt and full damage. I would be willing to have to choose between an interrupt and some other effect, like RV ticking or the Vindication debuff. I would even be fine with a consequence-free interrupt on a really long cooldown (and indeed, sometimes I do use repentance as an interrupt). I would not be willing to choose between an interrupt and a Hand spell, that is too much to ask.

[Nikoll]

RV ticks or vindi debuff? what, the kick removes them or something? uh, no chance there of that happening (oh no, the priest you interrupted got all that AP back. watch out!). unless they give us a new strike that is the interrupt that is unlikely as well. It will change pve too much and force them to rehaul again. that leaves forbarance/faux forbaracne lockout and hand spells to play with. A full hand lockout for 10 seconds is probably to much, but when/if we first get it that is what i'd expect it to be on the ptr. then from there taking it down to shareing a CD with hof. You may not like it, but you know they will take something away and not just a lame ass debuff like vindication.

[Horn]

I don't see why people are so insistent on us having to give something up for a simple interrupt; if we were talking about a snare, i could understand because we are semi-balanced around not having that. We're under represented in arena due to lack of offensive tools in the Retribution toolbox anyway.

[Nikoll]

I don't see why people are so insistent on us having to give something up for a simple interrupt; if we were talking about a snare, i could understand because we are semi-balanced around not having that. We're under represented in arena due to lack of offensive tools in the Retribution toolbox anyway.

but we have a lot of defensive utility. That is why i see it as likely to trade defense for offense.

[holymoo]

Ok so I'm looking at how shitty Repentance is and decided to come up with some way to fix it so ret has a better cc and possibly a decent interrupt option. So check this, it would use the same DR as everything else and be a .5 or a 1 sec cast time. NO cd and it would start with a 6 second, 4 second and then a 2 second. Then obviously the DR would kick in and make them immune. People would still be broken out with damage taken but the way you could use it is like a cc or an interrupt. Damage might have to be nerfed a little more for this to be an option but what do you guys think?

Sorry mate BUT NO!

[Athael]

I don't see why people are so insistent on us having to give something up for a simple interrupt; if we were talking about a snare, i could understand because we are semi-balanced around not having that. We're under represented in arena due to lack of offensive tools in the Retribution toolbox anyway.

Because Blizzard generally acknowledges that retribution paladins are already, while not perfect in arenas, quite well balanced. Their words, not mine.

So if we make a math problem out of it, assume that Perfect Balance is the number 1.

We think we are less than 1. Blizzard thinks we are 1. If they gave us an interrupt with no cost of any kind, we would be 1.1 or higher. That's OP. So to tone us back down, we now have to lose .1 in some other category. Blizzard has addressed retribution's poor representation in arena brackets. I don't recall the exact words, but I can paraphrase. It went something like: "We see a lot of data and have a lot of people coming to us explaining that retribution paladins are very poorly represented in high level arena. But then you also have people coming to us complaining about how retribution paladins are unstoppable in battlegrounds, getting top killing blows, damage done, and healing done, and very few deaths."

At least, I understand that's the common way of thinking about the subject. We are balanced around the way we are right now. We are not underpowered in the eyes of the developers. That means that we won't get upgrades, we can only get sidegrades.

Frankly, I bristle at that paraphrase I just gave you guys because BGs don't matter right now. Who gives a shit if we're the fucking kings of lolbgs if we can't compete in arena? BGs are fun, yes. But I also want to get nice gear from PvPing, because that's also fun - getting upgrades.

I guess, as I said earlier in this thread, we'll have to wait until Cataclysm/rated BGs to be relevant in PvP in the way that rogues and mages are.

[iktankniet]

ill be locking this topic because i made another topic where everyone can post their idea