ST + IST vs. Shadow Affinity + Improved VE

[Shadowy]

Is ST + IST still a better choice than Shadow Affinity and Improved VE?

I'm not in a guild now and mostly running random HC's, would the extra SP outweigh the threat loss and the extra self-healing?
And what about raid-environment?

I have heard this has changed in 3.3 and I'm curious about the opinions of fellow priests.

[KresnikHellfire]

In raiding, I use ST & IST purely for the dps gain, and the extra regen provided by IST helps a little bit with mana (which has become a little more of an issue with the haste changes).

Shadow Affinity is worthless for raiding, pretty much, as I've never had any problems with tank aggro.
Improved VE is nice, but the healing is still quite low. I doubt it will save any lives in a raid, but it's a nice small boost, but in my opinion, not worth taking over IST.

[Deyus]

Is ST + IST still a better choice than Shadow Affinity and Improved VE?

One of the main reasons for adopting ST/IST (even before the 3.3 spirit changes) is that it provides better mana regen than Focused Mind. I use a build that keeps both ST/IST and Improved VE. Try this out: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...6,wJy-OR,10958

Improved VE is generally worthwhile - maybe not so much in 5 mans, but for raiding it is very useful in circumstances where the raid damage is high, or groups require a low level of constant healing (Anub'arak).

[Zeuq]

Improved VE is generally worthwhile - maybe not so much in 5 mans, but for raiding it is very useful in circumstances where the raid damage is high, or groups require a low level of constant healing (Anub'arak).

Pretty much this. If you can afford to drop points from Focused Mind, pick it up; if you can't, don't.

[Shadowy]

Pretty much this. If you can afford to drop points from Focused Mind, pick it up; if you can't, don't.

I think I'll do this, drop 2 points in Focused Mind and go imp VE, I don't have any mana problems atm so no big deal.
Thanks for the info all

[jonish]

Is ST + IST still a better choice than Shadow Affinity and Improved VE?

I'm not in a guild now and mostly running random HC's, would the extra SP outweigh the threat loss and the extra self-healing?
And what about raid-environment?

I have heard this has changed in 3.3 and I'm curious about the opinions of fellow priests.

wow your tanks must be terrible if you have been speccd for -threat talents at any point as a shadow priest. Having 3 points is Shadow Affinity in a raid spec is probably the biggest waste of 3 talents points in all of WoW.

imp spirit tap has been the way to go since day 1. you move talents from elsewhere to get imp VE if you want it , much like I have.

[JohnGalt]

I was actually wondering if you are having the same success as I am with IMP VE?
As a priest I can only speak for myself but I'm pulling 5-6k dps on a single target in 10 mans with strict 10-man gear.

With regular VE I heal myself about 750 hps effectively making me a null for a raid healer's priority as I can top myself off pretty quickly unless I'm being focused. This also adds 150 hps to the raid more or less a weak healing stream. Doesn't do too much but definitely doesn't hurt. Adding 67% to that healing amount puts me at 1250/250 for those numbers respecively. Again, it's nice but maybe all that worth while.

Due to the improvements in haste I find myself running out of mana a bit quicker than usual and rather than use dispersion I was wondering if it made more sense to drop points out of Imp VE and Inner Focus and throw them into Focused Mind.

I know i'm trying to hijack this thread but I think that the Imp ST debate is pretty much over as everyone should have it now.

So the questions is:
Do the mana issues we currently suffer (I know they're not that big) warrant dropping Imp VE and Inner focus for Focused Mind?

[Bizatch]

i actually use all of these except shadow affinity and im raiding top end.

now raid wise, obviosly we use insanely good tanks, aggro is NEVER a threat.
and pre 3.3 aggro was NEVER a problem anywhere with any tank tbh.

Yet now i run the new heroics etc, and use random tanks. being specced imp VE does actually cause me threat issues the same as it did inTBC. the damage and healing combined does make alot of threat.

im never going to spec reduced threat, just wondering if anyone else has had any aggro touble since our dps was buffed and VE is permanent buff????

im running 3300 spell power self buffed and around 700 haste fyi.

[TheRabidDeer]

i actually use all of these except shadow affinity and im raiding top end.

now raid wise, obviosly we use insanely good tanks, aggro is NEVER a threat.
and pre 3.3 aggro was NEVER a problem anywhere with any tank tbh.

Yet now i run the new heroics etc, and use random tanks. being specced imp VE does actually cause me threat issues the same as it did inTBC. the damage and healing combined does make alot of threat.

im never going to spec reduced threat, just wondering if anyone else has had any aggro touble since our dps was buffed and VE is permanent buff????

im running 3300 spell power self buffed and around 700 haste fyi.

If its a 5 man just click off VE, the healer shouldnt be having any issues such that it would require you to use VE anyway.

[Pitpat]

Our threat dump lasts for 10 seconds and talented the cd is only 30 seconds, consequently create a macro that binds fade to mind blast or something which means you are only generating threat 66% of the time you are casting. Also popping it before you pull allows you to dps for 8.5ish seconds while the tank is grabbing things. Even with imp ve with popping fade on cd i cannot imagine you would ever over agro even a poorly geared tank

[TheRabidDeer]

Our threat dump lasts for 10 seconds and talented the cd is only 30 seconds, consequently create a macro that binds fade to mind blast or something which means you are only generating threat 66% of the time you are casting. Also popping it before you pull allows you to dps for 8.5ish seconds while the tank is grabbing things. Even with imp ve with popping fade on cd i cannot imagine you would ever over agro even a poorly geared tank

Fade isnt a threat dump, it also doesnt reduce the amount of threat you are doing. It temporarily reduces your current threat (but you still put threat out). It functions almost the same way as if you were bopped from a paladin or you iceblocked.

[Pitpat]

wrong, it causes no threat to generate for the duration of fade, read the spell detail

[Weena2]

Imp VE i havent found to be useful for anything so far in TOC except twins hardmode the first week we were doing it. As someone mentioned above about 'Anub group healing' well that comes down to two things. One you will be overhealing with Imp ve meaning anub heals more, or two you are not doing enough dps to keep your group up without imp ve (which is only 6,667dps). If its the later one then you probably shouldnt be doing TOGC >.>

In all honesty its a personal choice, and personally the gain from VE is to minimal to pick up for two talent points

[d4rky]

wrong, it causes no threat to generate for the duration of fade, read the spell detail

FAIL ... if you have no idea ... just ...

Fade out, temporarily reducing all your threat for 10 sec.

[Pitpat]

read the word all following reduce, also use it and see what happens using a threat meter, you will not show up on the meter until after fade has dropped

[fabian]

read the word all following reduce, also use it and see what happens using a threat meter, you will not show up on the meter until after fade has dropped

You still cause threat when faded, just at a reduced amount. Your aggro is also temporarily set to 0 for the duration of the effect but once the effect is over, you gain the threat you had before plus additional threat caused during the effect.

[Deyus]

One you will be overhealing with Imp ve meaning anub heals more, or two you are not doing enough dps to keep your group up without imp ve (which is only 6,667dps). If its the later one then you probably shouldnt be doing TOGC >.>

At full single target DPS it overheals, but the majority of Anub P3 is a multi target fight where a fairly large proportion of our DPS won't produce healing. Pre 3.3 we would would not have taken the time to put VE on the adds, and had to be careful about the amount and timing of AoE / DoT's on the adds to avoid losing group members. At this time Imp VE allowed us to increase our net DPS if executed properly. The changes in 3.3 allow us be more aggressive with AoE, though I agree the HPS is high if VT is up on all 4 adds.

Definitely a personal choice though. If you don't mind me asking, where do you put the two points from imp VE?

[Worshaka]

wow your tanks must be terrible if you have been speccd for -threat talents at any point as a shadow priest. Having 3 points is Shadow Affinity in a raid spec is probably the biggest waste of 3 talents points in all of WoW.

imp spirit tap has been the way to go since day 1. you move talents from elsewhere to get imp VE if you want it , much like I have.

Perhaps your dps is fail like most shadow priests, if you weren't approaching 15K dps on hard mode Hodir you were bad and tanks were most certainly struggling for threat... not to mention vezax and threat reduction certainly helped with AoEing large amounts of trash.

Thats not to say I suggest everyone take it but its not as black and white as you make out.

[richay]

I've done 21k dps on hodir and tank had 0 problems keeping agro with 0 threat talents. Get new tanks. -Threat is waste.

[Grath]

Imp SF has always been enough for me... but we have skilled tanks and if ure good enough with ure fade u really cant pull agro... the only times ive ever pulled threat was vezax but even than u press 1 button and u got no more agro for 10 seconds, and if u still have it after that something is definitely wrong.. is that talent really worth it when u have a 10 second threat immunity?