Don't kick your tank...

[Nargol]

Hello people!
I am Nargol, I'm here to open most and a lot of peoples eyes (well, that's my hopes).
Just recently, 2 months or so, people (read dps'ers) have started to have these insane gear requirements on your everyday heroic.

Anyway, my gear is well off the so called requirement and I see myself as a pretty decent tank.
I was browsing mmo two days ago and this post gets my attention http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-du...-bad-tank-%27/
I suggest you read it before proceeding with this post.

Now, the guy was probably able to solo the whole instance with that gear and most likely out damage 40% of the damage dealers in the group.

You might wonder what this bufoon is on about now ye?
The idea of this campaign is to show people that you don't need 35k hp unbuffed to tank Violet Hold.
Most dps'ers think their 1,5k or less is fine for a heroic (I laugh at them and enjoy my 1st spot on recount). But they have the guts to say that you are a bad tank because you have less than 35k hp.

On to my campaign, I like to call it "28k is enough". The basic idea is to simply get ahold of blues and whatnot tank gear and run the daily heroics in it.
I personally like my t6 kit with a staggering 25k hp! I've completed all but Pit of Saron and Halls of Reflecttion with this gear.

My point is, don't judge the tanks and don't kick them until you see what they are made of (No, not the blues and greens), people ran heroics with the same old t6 just a week or two after Wotlk was released

You can discuss this on the EU forums tank section aswell: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....25283293&sid=1

[thorenSSE]

I approve of this thread.
People are way too spoiled nowadays.

[Deleted]

you can EASILY tank naxx10, and heroics with just 25K health.. you dont even need to be crit capped...

ive done it on my DK, with that health amount, and 480-490 defense... worked nice

:<

[Crieve]

Man, people these days are just spoiled. When Wrath first hit, I was a tank with 17k unbuffed doing heroics. They were difficult because of how under geared everyone was, (most were in quest blues and greens or season 2 pvp gear) and there were many wipes, but the fact of the matter is that we got passed it. Heroic Utgarde Pinnacle, from what I remember, was a wipefest every single time because healers didn't have the spell power or mana to heal a tank that's always on the edge of death due to the lack of defense and avoidance.

And you people complain about tanks with ONLY 35k. Good god, please shut the lock up. Back in my day, 17k was pretty boss.

[Nozh]

Speaking of tanking Naxx10, back before Ulduar I off-tanked it on my DK in PvP gear, sure they were pretty much OP tanks at the time but having 20ish avoidance and still facerolling it up says something about tanking requirements.

The only thing gear does for a tank in a heroic (save for maybe Halls of Reflection) is making the difference of pulling one pack of mobs or several.

Usually when I do heroics I sign as healer (shadow priest mainspecc) then if I see the tanks gear being 232-245 I just specc back to shadow and DPS the run and pop some heals because it's very much enough as someone on that gear level doesn't take any damage anyway.


Often it's the bad players that yell the loudest and want people kicked because even if they have the gear they are still bad enough that they need someone else to carry them, they're used to it and that's the way they want it, ignorant kids who think they know other classes when they can't even 1234 with their own.

Regarding your campaign, I'm not sure if I should call it a noble cause or whatever but it's more or less a totally pointless campaign, good luck anyhow if you want to carry through with it.

Cheers!

[Protlol]

I've actually done something similar, where I spec into fury, put on my 2h's are tank like that like...its pretty fun, and you get to top the DPS meters in most randoms.

[Xuany]

Yea people these days sure are spoiled, I remember way back before Ulduar if you got into a heroic group and the tank had like 25k-26k HP your like oh cool good run, and I mean you could still do it with 20k HP. But im not helping this either I normally just do my daily heroic everyday but now im carrying my druid buddy who just dinged 80 so he gets carried by a 48k buffed pally. :P

[badgerman]

20k hp is enough for the original heroics, thats what the tanks tanked them with when lich king went live, and tier 6 gear was good enough to tank naxx ten with so 20k hp is enough to tank a heroic, not gonna be easy on the healer but its about time they do something in heroics nowadays, with tanks in full t9 they can just /slack in heroics

[Lark]

Unless your server operates under different rules through some sort of magical trickery, you can't kick anyone for something like 15 minutes. If people are calling you a bad tank, go tank and make fun of them for not ripping. Most heroics can be completed in 15 minutes anyway.

Also 1.5k in a heroic is INCREDIBLY GOD AWFUL. Anyone who says that under ANY EXCUSE beyond having NO ARMS is a horrible horrible player who should probably just delete their character. I do 1.5k on most of my healing classes in heroics while healing.

I could double 1.5k on any of my 80's with the keyboard on my head as a hat. I kick these people out my heroics on principle.

[Razia]

My tank sits at 34k health unbuffed, and I'm still being asked once in a while "Are you geared enough to do this?", which is ToC and ICC 10 mans. Yeah, I am geared and skilled enough, trust me. I'm sorry if I don't have stam trinkets equipped, as for the most part, I personally believe that the use/proc on most the stam trinkets are weak. I don't raid that much anymore so my access is limited, but having about 50% dodge/parry combined isn't too shabby, wouldn't you say?
(Currently using Rune of Repulsion and Ick's Rotting Thumb)

That being said, I got a disc priest too, and I don't care what the health is of my tank. I know I'm geared and skilled enough on my healer as well to take care of any tank, regardless of their amount of health, avoidance, and defense value. If they can't hold aggro, that's a different story.

[Pitchkart]

I kinda have this problem. People demanding tanks with 30-40k HP, and people demanding DPS be 3000+. For heroics...

You can get through heroics with a tank with 25k HP, and three DPS with 2k DPS. And that's -easy-. You don't need 40k HP and 3-4k DPS.

I've been trying to gear up my warrior, and I'd been going as DPS, but building a tank set, so my DPS was pretty low, compared to the other guys. I'd offer to tank from time to time, but no one wanted a tank with only 24k HP.

But in a VH where the tank activated the event and dropped group... I hurried up and spec-changed and gear-changed and started tanking... tanked the whole thing with only 24k HP. And it was -easy-.

So yeah, you don't need a tank in full epics to tank heroics. People seem to be getting into this elitist mindset where "My tank that I've had since 3.0 came out has 40k HP, so why don't you?" attitude. Same with the DPS'ers. "A warrior could easily do more DPS than that," sure, but not in THIS gear.

[Fenixdown]

I approve of the message but I also must add it will get no real support form the palyerbase.

People always forget two things.

1. Not every player in the game started day 1 of Wrath.
2. Just because you're in full T9 doesn't mean the people who dinged 80 last week will be, as well.

Yes, gear is easier to get nowadays. Yes, heroics are not hard.

That bing said, I also should add this.

Players aren't spoiled. They're stupid. Yes,t here is a difference.

Just look at the posts that seem to shun new tanks. There's several dozens of them on just this forum alone. I mean, now it seems to be a crime just to be a new player. But that guy who's been playing since mid BC who's pulling 2k DPS in full 245s, oh he's okay because he's a "veteran player".

No, he's not okay. He's bad, and he'll never get better. If you fall under that cattegory, or fall under the category of thinking he is good, then both of you need to get a clue and shut up.

I support any new tank I get for a heroic, except maybe HoR. But I always, ALWAYS give a tank a chance. What's the worst that happens? The DPS pulls off him? That's YOUR fault, not the tank's. Watch your threat meter and stop blowing all your cooldowns 2 seconds into a fight.

I know the tank won't die, he has a disc priest with a GS over 5400. So that's not an issue to me. It means I might have to cast Penance as a healing spell instead of DPSing with it. Oh, no, let's all FREAK OUT! THE HEALER MIGHT HAFTA HEAL OMG!!!! :O

No, the people that just wnana boot a new player from a group, for any reason or circumstance, is just bad at the game and bad at life. Yes, I said bad at life. You don't fire someone who just started his job three days ago, do you? No. Unless they like, pissed in someone's coffee or something.

SO this is my campaign instead to boycott all stupid players in this game that think being new is some kind of sin. While I also support the OP, I think this cause will get much more results.

[op3l]

I tanked a heroic on my DK at 24k hp with a decent healer. Heroics are a joke and only idiots who do not have a single tank or healer require you to have 100k HP with 200% avoidance to tank heroic Utgarde Keep...

Me(the druid tank with 30k HP), a resto druid(with about 1750ish heals), and a DPS warrior(that did about 3k damage) 3 maned heroic UK in about 20 minutes. It's not hard folks.

[Nikoll]

My first heroics after wotlk I was at a amazing 18k hp. The people hitching aren't the people that made it to 80 fast and had to deal with that. Let them bitch, crush them as prot in damage.

[anywherenotes]

Well people just want easy runs. If you got a tank with 35k+, chances are even if healer dc's in beginning of a pull, you can finish the pull and be fine. It's the safety that people want.

Another reason people want 35k+ tanks is the amount of agro they generate, so you can nuke trash quick. I'm used to guild's MT's (on my main), and when I go on my new (last week) 80 warlock with terrible terrible 2k dps, and I dot up all mobs in the pull, and all of a sudden 2 of them are rushing at me ... it means tank is not even thunderclaping. I had same problem when I respeced to tank on my normally-boomkin druid, and offtanked ICC. Adds kept getting pulled off - I'm just not as good as normal tanks in ICC. So geared dps wants geared tanks just so they don't pull agro.

So yes, you're fine with 20k to tank most heroics, but geared dps will have to hold back, and if you pull a pat, you may die - people don't like that.

[Gestopft]

This is so true.

I was in H VH on my warrior (28k before commanding shout) and about 2/3 of the way through, one of the dps says "everyone but tank, want to do another one after this?"
I am sure that they were only looking at the size of my green bar, and ignoring the fact that I had kept aggro, kited Xevozz correctly, etc. There were no deaths, and it was going smoothly. It was just that these dps (ranging from 2-3k) somehow felt entitled to a tank with 40 hp or something. Ugh.

[Slapp]

I never judge the tank by gear, I judge by TPS. Yesterday I was in PoS with a 25k tank who dinged 80 two days ago and had never been in PoS before. We guided him through the instance in a nice manner, and made it thorugh without a single wipe. Not a single death even. Though, I should mention he was a mature player and a very fast learner, and the healer was quite a bit over average.

As I mentioned earlier, I judge by TPS. If the tank is doing ~2000 TPS, even if hes in blues, he's bad. Sorry, but he is. Yes, I know dps should hold back and watch their threat. But chances are, if he's doing 2000 TPS, he most likely only clicking one ability aside from auto-attacking. And that makes him a bad players, and god knows what else he might fail at.

Dont kick tanks with low hp. Seriously, 25k is what I tanked Naxx10 with on my old warrior, and 20k is enough for heroics, I shit you not.

[Leidus]

Also 1.5k in a heroic is INCREDIBLY GOD AWFUL. Anyone who says that under ANY EXCUSE beyond having NO ARMS is a horrible horrible player who should probably just delete their character. I do 1.5k on most of my healing classes in heroics while healing.

While I agree that 1.5k is pretty bad, I've found that one well geared, good dps can bring everyone else's dps way down. For example, when I spec Ret for heroics I do about 4-5k dps. In a lot of the heroics, the trash mobs die so fast that some of the other dps that would have been doing 2-2.5k are pushed down below 2k simply because the mobs die before they can really do much to them. Once we get to a boss I can see their dps shoot back up to what it was supposed to be.

I really don't think people should be kicking anyone from a group unless they're causing the group to fail. If they're a noob and their gear sucks but your group is still plowing through the instance anyway, why do you care? Just stop being an asshole for once and be happy you helped a noob get some gear so they can start being less of a noob.

[Tolar]

as long as you have like 35k HP and defence capped you can probably tank any heroic...as long as I heal.

[Protlol]

This threads full of ridiculous ideas.

People are stupid. This is a fact outside the game as well as in.
The normal person can not problem solve a simple issue.
This is why people go to school for 20 years before they get a 'profession'.

I was a healer when WOTLK first came out. A broken paladin healer with full mana regardless of what I casted. (thanks broken plea and ret/holy spec) Back when even if you chain casted your largest heal it was not enough in some cases. It was a spell power issue, their has not been a single time since WOTLK launched that i've ever not been able to carry a group as a healer.

If you honestly believe a tank with anything above 18k can't tank a heroic, you fall into the above mentioned category. The reason they need 18k is because without being defense capped they get 1 shot.

Quit complaining, you have no idea what it was like to drink after every pull for some healers, or to actually have to use a strategy against a boss to avoid taking massive amounts of damage as DPS instead of facerolling your fat sour cream and onion pringle fingers across the keyboard.

Get some rogaine, pay for some sex, I don't care what you do...just quit complaining like your entitled to something on a video game. You rolled what you rolled, don't like your tank? roll one.