malfurion stormrage

[willjones410]

I don't think they are from Theramore possibly some militants who served Jaina's father who was killed by Orcs...

Doubtful, there seem to be a lot more Alliance in the area then what the few remnants of the Kul Tiras fleet is capable of.

But like I said before, we'll see.

You are aware what the other option Alliance had other then prision camps right?

Of course. King Terenas was cool enough to not be so full of anger as to resort to that though. *hugs the old king even though he's dead, sad at your fate and eager to free your soul from Evilsword.*

You should be thankful that was the result you got.

Well so should you be, honestly, because if it had been different there would have been no Thrall and no new Horde to help defend the World Tree, right? Unless you're one of those nitwits who think that they didn't need the Horde there to help defend the world.

I can't help but laugh at people like that. So full of anti-horde feelings they just deny the lore and prefer to make up their own realities. 0_o

Also no I'm afraid a small force that Archimonde ripped through at Hyjal will attone for the years and years of killing done by the Horde to the Alliance.

First, that was no small force that was there, a great many orcs died defending that tree. Please try to be more respectful.

Second, if it doesn't then I hate to think of what does, but I believe that the orcs have paid enough and have done enough to clear the air. Others obviously don't agree, but to me, that's like a parent standing outside a prison and then murdering the person who molested their child the second they step outside the gates, even though that person served his thirty year sentence. I can certainly understand the parent's argument in doing so, but according to the law, he's still in the wrong for pulling the trigger.

Of course in this situation of Alliance invading South Barrens and destroying tauren villages, it would be more like the parent attacking a friend of the person who molested their child. In that situation the parent's argument becomes a lot weaker.

Even as we speak simply having Garrosh belittle the Alliance King shows a lack of respect on Thrall's part to keep his peons in check when dealing with possible allies. :-\

I'm not denying this, but I am saying that people seriously need to appreciate Thrall's position in this situation.

By blood and lineage, Garrosh Hellscream is leader of the Warsong Clan, just as his father was, and that grants him a place of power. Add the fact that he is the son of Thrall's mentor and best friend and it would lead Thrall into giving Garrosh a seat of power in the Horde, thinking he would do a good job. Foolish? Perhaps, but I'm not claiming Thrall is perfect either. He does have a trusting nature, as we see with Garrosh and Sylvanas.

Some might say "well he shouldn't have given Thrall a position of power." True he couldn't have done so, but that would break Horde customs, which would have left Garrosh insulted, and since the entire Warsong clan, some of the best warriors in the Horde, answer to him first and Thrall second, that might have been foolish. Especially with the Lich King attacking.

These are examples of why the Horde is not perfect. I never claimed it was perfect. Far from it infact. I played Alliance mostly in Warcraft 2. I love the Horde now because as far as I'm concerned their not the bloodthirsty animals they were back then. Like I said earlier, I think Garrosh will find his better niche in the future.

I'm just frustrated by the fact that a lot of Alliance players out there can so easily point out all the wrongs that the Horde is doing but can't own up to the fact that their faction is acting like jerks too.

[badgerman]

Malfurion is with the Alliance http://www.wowwiki.com/Malfurion

im actually gonna say WoWWiki is wrong,
malfurion was in the emerald dream when tyrande joined the alliance (which blizz only did as the alliance needed more races so they added night elves and gnomes)
malfurion more than likely doesnt even know about the night elves joining the aliiance and i sincerely doubt that he would care about such an affiliation or that he would prefer one faction over the other, he cares about nature, night elves and druidism.

and to all you people constantly complaining about the warsong lumber in ashenvale do we ever complain about the dwarves tearing apart the land in south barrens and attacking small horde settlements? didnt think so

[twrule]

and to all you people constantly complaining about the warsong lumber in ashenvale do we ever complain about the dwarves tearing apart the land in south barrens and attacking small horde settlements? didnt think so

The gravity of digging up parts of a barren (it's in the name)and sparsely populated wasteland for archaeological purposes without permission doesn't really measure up to that of slashing and burning through a sacred forest (surrounding the world tree), killing many of it's protectors of 10,000+ years as well as their demigod, and then continuing the deforestation out of spite more than anything. That's why those aren't compared often.

[Aldarc]

One would assume he would tear Orgrimmar to the ground... but thats just wishful thinking

That sort of assumption is not wishful thinking, it's barbarous thinking. Thankfully Malfurion's does not have your hateful personality or genocidal disposition.

I don't think they are from Theramore possibly some militants who served Jaina's father who was killed by Orcs...

Have you seen the names of the units guarding Northwatch Hold? Theramore Marines. It is more than likely that even if Theramore does not launch the attack, it would be the staging point for the Alliance forces who do.

You are aware what the other option Alliance had other then prision camps right? You should be thankful that was the result you got.

And this is why I find most of your analyses quite suspect, Phenomina. It is the result that "you" got and not the result that the "orcs" got. Who is "you?" A number of those arguing against your stances in this matter have confessed that they play both Alliance and Horde with fervor, myself included. You personalize this conflict in a way that is unhealthy for discussion. That calls to question your own objectivity in this matter. So what do you, Phenomina, have at stake in this conflict?

Also no I'm afraid a small force that Archimonde ripped through at Hyjal will attone for the years and years of killing done by the Horde to the Alliance.

The path of redemption is long and arduous. The Horde is clearly not there yet, but seeking to create further animosity with the Horde would certainly impede their road to redemption would it not? The story of the New Horde is one of redemption and survival in a world that hates them. It is hard to find redemption when they are never given the opportunity.

Even as we speak simply having Garrosh belittle the Alliance King shows a lack of respect on Thrall's part to keep his peons in check when dealing with possible allies. :-\

A lack of respect on Thrall's part? This is a feeble attempt here at most to belittle Thrall. Jaina has earned the respect of the Horde, and Garrosh does not show nearly as much ill will. What has Varian done to earn the Horde's respect? (And yes, I am aware of the other side of the equation: the Horde, in all its history, has done little to earn Varian's respect. But respect is a two-way street.)

The gravity of digging up parts of a barren (it's in the name)and sparsely populated wasteland for archaeological purposes without permission doesn't really measure up to that of slashing and burning through a sacred forest (surrounding the world tree), killing many of it's protectors of 10,000+ years as well as their demigod, and then continuing the deforestation out of spite more than anything. That's why those aren't compared often.

How so? Force in this conflict was initiated by the night elves on orcs who were not informed of their offenses. But let's remove the events that led to Cenarius's demise from the equation and simply look at current activity. Who is at present committing the atrocities? You will find that both sides are being harsh. Just because one wrong is happening in the barrens while one wrong is happening in a forest does not matter. If you want to play the "ancestral lands" card, then Mid-Kalimdor would certainly be as much the tauren ancestral land as Northern Kalimdor is the night elves ancestral land.

[willjones410]

The gravity of digging up parts of a barren (it's in the name)and sparsely populated wasteland for archaeological purposes without permission doesn't really measure up to that of slashing and burning through a sacred forest (surrounding the world tree), killing many of it's protectors of 10,000+ years as well as their demigod, and then continuing the deforestation out of spite more than anything. That's why those aren't compared often.

Explain that to the Tauren. Many of those "sparsely populated wastelands" the dwarves are tearing up are holy to them. Being shocked that they would be so upset over dwarves digging them up for any reason is about as stupid as someone being shocked at finding an arrow in the chest after they were caught digging up some indian burial ground.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Though IF Malfurion would become Alliance instead of Neutral, it would mean a total war against the Horde that the Alliance might even win...

[HolyshockTalniEU]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Cenarius

Arm yourself with knowledge

Because they drank from the blood of Mannoroth AND because they're savages, they killed him.
It's like a man defending his home when it's being robbed and then getting killed by the burglars. Would you agree with the burglars?

http://www.wowwiki.com/Malfurion_Stormrage
i do he is in the Emerald dream.

[Phenomina]

That sort of assumption is not wishful thinking, it's barbarous thinking. Thankfully Malfurion's does not have your hateful personality or genocidal disposition.

One would think he might when he wakes up and see's the chaos the orcs have done to his sacred lands and people.

Have you seen the names of the units guarding Northwatch Hold? Theramore Marines. It is more than likely that even if Theramore does not launch the attack, it would be the staging point for the Alliance forces who do.

It blocks the coastal approaches to Theramore from the north, forcing any Horde assault to travel south and navigate the marshes in order to reach Theramore Isle. Looks like more of a defensive settlement that Horde assault.

And this is why I find most of your analyses quite suspect, Phenomina. It is the result that "you" got and not the result that the "orcs" got. Who is "you?" A number of those arguing against your stances in this matter have confessed that they play both Alliance and Horde with fervor, myself included. You personalize this conflict in a way that is unhealthy for discussion. That calls to question your own objectivity in this matter. So what do you, Phenomina, have at stake in this conflict?

When I give opinions in this forum I do so from my characters Alliance standpoint. That is the fun part of it, that is why it's not boring like politic talk where I do have a stake. Don't you preach to me what is healthy about discussion or not, I have not said anything that is " unhealthy " for gameplay.

I am certain that almost all players have played both sides Alliance and Horde as I have but usually they prefer one, if you don't * shrugs * I'll correct it.

Be thankful the Orcs did not get exteriminated when they were captured. The Alliance showed mercy on them and on Orgrim Doomhammer after they witnessed the loss of a great leader and even more countrymen, something that the orcs have yet to repay.

The path of redemption is long and arduous. The Horde is clearly not there yet, but seeking to create further animosity with the Horde would certainly impede their road to redemption would it not? The story of the New Horde is one of redemption and survival in a world that hates them. It is hard to find redemption when they are never given the opportunity.

Clearly not there? Are you serious? Have you even started on that road?

A good start would be to apoligize to the Alliance for the crimes commited against them, then after that you have a peace talk with Varian after you have Garrosh stay at home so that he doesn't provoke our King, which he has yet to be reprimanded for.

Then you can apoligize for the terrible experiments that the Forsaken have conducted on Humans and the negligence shown by the Horde in what is known as wrathgate. Once thats done you can apoligize for ambushing and killing Alliance members who were assaulting the Scourge ( a common enemy )

Then for good measures you can cease operations of lumber in Night Elf ancestral lands.

That is your road to redemption :-\

Also Never given the opportunity? Are you serious? Varian has almost been killed TWICE from attending peace talks with the Horde, don't preach about no opportunity.

How so? Force in this conflict was initiated by the night elves on orcs who were not informed of their offenses. But let's remove the events that led to Cenarius's demise from the equation and simply look at current activity. Who is at present committing the atrocities? You will find that both sides are being harsh. Just because one wrong is happening in the barrens while one wrong is happening in a forest does not matter. If you want to play the "ancestral lands" card, then Mid-Kalimdor would certainly be as much the tauren ancestral land as Northern Kalimdor is the night elves ancestral land.

Are the orcs informed now of there offenses? Have they stopped?

As for presently committing atrocities? the Horde are still doing the same shit

As for the dwarves in Mulgore read the following

After Brann Bronzebeard visited the dwarves of the digsite he knew he needed to act before his friends were put in greater danger. While he visited Thunder Bluff he suggested to Cairne Bloodhoof that he send a group of his own people to work with the dwarves in exchange for making sure that the land was properly cared for. Cairne agreed to bring up his offer to his council of elders for discussion. Apparently it worked, as Baine Bloodhoof asked a group of young tauren to act as emissaries to the dwarven excavation of Bael’dun to convince the dwarves to cease their careless digging. Given enough effort, the tauren apparently convinced the dwarves to allow a shaman to oversee their site to make sure that the land is properly cared for during the excavation, and that the dwarves return to the land as much as they take.LoM 40, 47.

Mean ol' dwarves... :-X

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Malfurion_Stormrage
i do he is in the Emerald dream.

Guess for some reason he will appear in Cata :P

[The_Harvan]

Why is this in debate?
Metzen's heart is with the Horde, he said this himself, and wowwiki also says that his favourite hero is Malfurion, so is Metzen going to make Malfurion hateful and pit him against the Horde? Unlikely...
You gota look at the facts both inside and outside the lore...

[Phenomina]

Why is this in debate?
Metzen's heart is with the Horde, he said this himself, and wowwiki also says that his favourite hero is Malfurion, so is Metzen going to make Malfurion hateful and pit him against the Horde? Unlikely...
You gota look at the facts both inside and outside the lore...

I agree it is very unlikely. :'(

[MushroomBomb]

I will not be surprised if tyrande and malfurion owns us in cataclysm the owner of druid "pwnage" and a imba priest got something too say about the neverending struggle that is azeroth. thrall will be a advisor, jaina will own. (the most powerfull sorcerer in azeroth), cairne will be the leader of hope, sylvanas windrunner will pwn the lich king with jaina in wotlk i think. bolvar will never succumb too the lich king. he will be a leader in some way.(or the guy from the Q where adal saves the guy) he will maybe be the lich king.

but.one thing is sure. the most OP drood will have a important role in cataclysm:P

I laughed. I really did. Jaina is but a breadcrumb in the Arcane wastelands compared to my Mage.

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Why is this in debate?
Metzen's heart is with the Horde, he said this himself, and wowwiki also says that his favourite hero is Malfurion, so is Metzen going to make Malfurion hateful and pit him against the Horde? Unlikely...
You gota look at the facts both inside and outside the lore...

Well they made Malfurion this Jedi who doesn't share hatred for his enemies, maybe because of that reason.

Bit silly though if that's the case.

[Auroro]

I laughed. I really did. Jaina is but a breadcrumb in the Arcane wastelands compared to my Mage.

Jaina have more power than your little mage. Your mage would be one shot by the Lich King while Jaina hold her ground while we were dealing with Lich King's most loyal Death Knights, Falric and Marwyn.

[Phenomina]

Jaina have more power than your little mage. Your mage would be one shot by the Lich King while Jaina hold her ground while we were dealing with Lich King's most loyal Death Knights, Falric and Marwyn.

That is true she was solo fighting the Lich King for at least 10 min

[Aldarc]

One would think he might when he wakes up and see's the chaos the orcs have done to his sacred lands and people.

Might, but not likely. He would perhaps level the lumber camp, but to destroy Orgrimmar? That is the sort of overkill not appropriate to druidic sense of balance.

It blocks the coastal approaches to Theramore from the north, forcing any Horde assault to travel south and navigate the marshes in order to reach Theramore Isle. Looks like more of a defensive settlement that Horde assault.

I am sure that it is, but that defensive settlement is dangerously close to Horde lands, much like I am sure that you would insist that Splintertree Post is for the Night Elves. But when the Alliance do burn down Camp Taurajo, where do you think the Alliance troops will come from? Bael Modan? Theramore? Northwatch Hold? And there is still the Kul Tiras presence in Durotar, and Horde missions indicate aggressive intentions.

When I give opinions in this forum I do so from my characters Alliance standpoint. That is the fun part of it, that is why it's not boring like politic talk where I do have a stake. Don't you preach to me what is healthy about discussion or not, I have not said anything that is " unhealthy " for gameplay.

I am certain that almost all players have played both sides Alliance and Horde as I have but usually they prefer one, if you don't * shrugs * I'll correct it.

In the future then I would prefer not to be addressed as "you" when talking about the actions of Horde or Alliance.

Be thankful the Orcs did not get exteriminated when they were captured. The Alliance showed mercy on them and on Orgrim Doomhammer after they witnessed the loss of a great leader and even more countrymen, something that the orcs have yet to repay.

And how are losing invading nations normally treated by the victors? Does this match with what you would like? The enactment of vengeance may shallowly satisfy emotional pain, but it is not just.

Clearly not there? Are you serious? Have you even started on that road?

A good start would be to apoligize to the Alliance for the crimes commited against them, then after that you have a peace talk with Varian after you have Garrosh stay at home so that he doesn't provoke our King, which he has yet to be reprimanded for.

Then you can apoligize for the terrible experiments that the Forsaken have conducted on Humans and the negligence shown by the Horde in what is known as wrathgate. Once thats done you can apoligize for ambushing and killing Alliance members who were assaulting the Scourge ( a common enemy )

Then for good measures you can cease operations of lumber in Night Elf ancestral lands.

That is your road to redemption :-\

Rise of the Horde says, "yes." Warcraft III says, "yes." Warcraft III: the Frozen Throne say, "yes." Lord of the Clans says, "yes." World of Warcraft says, "yes." And finally Metzen says. "yes." Anyone who earnestly believes that the Orcish Horde is not on the path to redemption is clearly in a case of lore denial.

Also Never given the opportunity? Are you serious? Varian has almost been killed TWICE from attending peace talks with the Horde, don't preach about no opportunity.

Of course the Horde cannot speak of opportunity, they were attacked by Kul Tiras while building Durotar. They Alliance did not give them much time before aggressions began. At the time of the initial orc-night elf conflicts, the night elves were a separate faction.

Are the orcs informed now of there offenses? Have they stopped?

The hostilities have already been initiated between the Silverwing Sentinels and the Warsong Clan. Their fighting comes from unofficial grudges and not official Horde or Alliance policy. The Horde still needs lumber, and there is not many surrounding places that provide a suitable logistical location.

As for presently committing atrocities? the Horde are still doing the same shit

Have they invaded the Eastern Kingdoms lately or indicated any intention to do so? (Forsaken excluded. We already know of their actions with Gilneas, though there may be other reasons for the Forsaken's actions that we are not presently aware about. But then again, the Forsaken are the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" component in the Horde apart from the Horde Proper [orcs, trolls, tauren].)

As for the dwarves in Mulgore read the following

Mean ol' dwarves... :-X

I'm quite skeptical of how these Brann journal's hold up in the long run. Metzen has indicated that some lore is more canonical than other lore. And in the game their actions in Mulgore indicate no intermediary settlement or tauren oversight whatsoever. And how does this absolve them of their actions in regards to the tauren surrounding Bael Modan?

[Charo]

I thought Rhonin was the most powerful mage/sorcerer in azeroth. Or am i wrong?

Yeah... I don't see how Jaina > Rhonin...

[Aldarc]

Yeah... I don't see how Jaina > Rhonin...

Certainly not with Knaak writing.