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  1. #41

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai
    Disc Priest/Resto Shams = best combo for that fight imo
    Makes it super easymode

    Resto Shams can heal the tanks and melee all pretty easily with their chains, and the disc just shields the ranged with boiling blood, which just leaves the tanks getting smashed
    The tank dosn't even get smashed in 10man. It's more of a tickle.

    Disc is pretty good for the fight and easly solo healed on 10 by a Disc Priest or Holy Paly.

  2. #42

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna
    Hello fellow priests,
    I'm part of a casual 10-man raiding guild and we've just downed Saurfang for the first time. I'm extremely glad to see the guild making progress, but I've got a bad feeling as well, because I was forced to go Discipline for it.
    I've been Holy as soon as level 10 and while I tried discipline and love a discipline priest in the raid, I don't particularly enjoy the spec. But now there's this boss on which we've wiped plenty of times and suddenly became a whole lot easier, just because I was trowing around shields. I've asked an officer if I should stay discipline and he said: "it's needed to down this boss'.
    So, what do you guys think, is a discipline priest really needed to defeat Saurfang?
    And do you know some arguments to convince my guild that me being holy is valuable to?
    I'd like to thank you all in advance.

    Ynna
    Cant imagine any fight where disc priest isnt needed, sure it lacks some aoe healing power but hes shields are make up for it, ussualy all 25 mans raid should have 1 disc and 1 holy there and for most 10 mans disc is more superior then holy, ofc if you run with a pally healer on your team holy is a better choise since of the aoe healing, run with shaman or druid go for disc.

  3. #43

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    This fight on 10man is easily done with 1 healer, my guild tried last week with only 1 healer, and boss went down really fast.

  4. #44

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Simple player
    Cant imagine any fight where disc priest isnt needed, sure it lacks some aoe healing power but hes shields are make up for it, ussualy all 25 mans raid should have 1 disc and 1 holy there and for most 10 mans disc is more superior then holy, ofc if you run with a pally healer on your team holy is a better choise since of the aoe healing, run with shaman or druid go for disc.

    We run Holy Pally + Resto Shaman. I play a Balance druid and take care of both adds (im usually the only ranged). The most marks I have ever seen for our 10-man is 1. Have a melee stun/root 1 add after I typhoon them. I nuke one to 50% melee takes over to kill, while I kill the other.

    The fight does not require any specific classes. Certain classes make it easier but in the end if you are having problems it boils down to your other raid members failing at execution.

  5. #45
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Basically, you said you are in a casual guild and you are having trouble with the last boss of the current ICC. That makes sense to me, you are not fully decked out in gear, you might not all know the latest theoryfact and be fully/properly gemmed and enchanted and probably use the pig feasts and sometimes flasks.

    You just changed to make the fight easier as others were not able to adapt. If you want to stay Holy, tell the tanks to taunt faster and the Ranged to do more damage and the melee to stop AoE pulling the beasts and land some stuns/slows.
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  6. #46
    The Patient Kalas's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Why are you complaining about having to switch specs just for one fight? Healing it as disc makes it incredibly easy to manage his BP gen, absolutely worth switching for. I had to go holy a couple times for ToGC for AoE healing and sprint shields, but I didn't bitch and moan and post a QQ thread in a WoW forum.

  7. #47
    Mechagnome Hexus's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    As far as controlling Saurfang's blood power is concerned, there's no substitute for good execution and kiting of the blood beasts.

    Disc shields are only partially viable on 10 man since on 25 (and almost certainly 10 heroic) the beasts will easily punch through the shields and continue to gnaw on their target.

    I believe in discipline priests, but you're more likely to win by controlling the blood beasts and keeping priests like you in the spec that they're more comfortable with.
    Always forgive your enemies, nothing annoys them so much. ~attributed to Oscar Wilde

  8. #48

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Maybe it's a plus side to being in a hardcore guild, but I was able to 2 heal Saurfang with me being my PVP disc offspec (I'm Shadow main). Hell, I don't even have a healing set at all. Try pvp disc next time, if your guild is doing the fight correctly at all, not a single debuff should go out.

    Also an edit :

    Ignore the idiots telling you to stop QQing. This forum just like trade chat is filled with people who will respond with comments that don't benefit the community at all.
    Bleh

  9. #49

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Stay Disc for a few weeks. When your raid has enough gear from ICC it'll be easier to switch back to holy and do the encounter easier.

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  10. #50

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    As some have said, a disc priest, while making this encounter easier, is far from needed to beat it. Our priest is Holy in my 10 men group and this week we wanted to try Saurfang with only one healer. Our Holy pally solo healed this quite easily, finished the fight with something like 40-50 BP and 0 marks.

    So, IMO there is something your guild is doing wrong if you struggle on that fight. Ranged/heals not spreading enough? Blood Beasts not kited (maybe even worse, tanked)? Are your tanks taunting as soon as the other tank has the debuff?

    Make sure everyone understands the fight mechanics and it should make it a whole lot easier.

  11. #51
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexus
    Disc shields are only partially viable on 10 man since on 25 (and almost certainly 10 heroic) the beasts will easily punch through the shields and continue to gnaw on their target.

    I believe in discipline priests, but you're more likely to win by controlling the blood beasts and keeping priests like you in the spec that they're more comfortable with.
    shields arent there for helping people live through blood beasts. i have never shielded someone who is being targeted by blood beasts unless they are completely obvious that they will get hit once, but even then mostly they get away (blink, disengage, etc).

    shields are the most useful thing for mark and when people get bloodboil. my only job on the fight is to heal marked people and if youve never tried it with a disc priest doing that (i'm paired with a druid as well) then you should sometime

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  12. #52

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Any ability damage done by Saurfang gives him runic power. That include mark damage, blood nova, blood beasts and the boliing blood debuff. A shield can primarily prevent damage from 1 tick of mark, or one tick of the blood boil. This means that instead of gaining 3 runic power, the boss gains 2 runic power over the course of a boiling blood debuff.

    Big deal, you may say.

    But, this is a very big deal. Because Saurfang also gains runic power from the mark damage. If you can delay the time until you get the first mark, you increase the time-until-the-fight-turns-hard by more than a third. This means that instead of ending the fight with 10 debuffs on 25-man, you end the fight with 3 debuffs. That's a massive difference. healing thorugh 10 debuffs is a royal PITA. healing through 3 debuffs can be done blindfolded.

    And that is why disc is awesome on saurfang.
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  13. #53

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Any ability damage done by Saurfang gives him runic power. That include mark damage, blood nova, blood beasts and the boliing blood debuff. A shield can primarily prevent damage from 1 tick of mark, or one tick of the blood boil. This means that instead of gaining 3 runic power, the boss gains 2 runic power over the course of a boiling blood debuff.

    Big deal, you may say.

    But, this is a very big deal. Because Saurfang also gains runic power from the mark damage. If you can delay the time until you get the first mark, you increase the time-until-the-fight-turns-hard by more than a third. This means that instead of ending the fight with 10 debuffs on 25-man, you end the fight with 3 debuffs. That's a massive difference. healing thorugh 10 debuffs is a royal PITA. healing through 3 debuffs can be done blindfolded.

    And that is why disc is awesome on saurfang.
    Except that Holy can also prevent one tick on 10 man. And a large chunk of any raid's Blood Power will most likely come from the Beasts not being handled correctly, as well as spreading out properly to avoid Blood Nova (which is 2 Power-per hit). Disc makes each a little easier to handle, in that it can dish shields on multiple people. But realistically, if your guild requires it of you, I hate to say it, but they're just bad.

    There's no requirement at all, even with getting the 3 marks on 25. Stop letting your guild use you as a crutch by bending over for them and running Discipline. It's not letting them improve, it's making them rely on you when there's no reason to. They're lazy, they won't get better, and if they fail the encounter you not being Discipline is a scapegoat for them admitting that they're absolutely terrible.

    If someone likes Holy? Great. Be Holy. There is not a single encounter in this game where a Holy Priest must respec Discipline to get the content done. Not one now, not one in ToGC, or Ulduar. And certainly not one later in the Plaguewerks and beyond.
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  14. #54
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    It's totally not necessary assuming you have a good raid setup, last week that I did it (on vacation currently) I pugged it on my shadowpriest and not only did we one-shot it, we got the achievement too. So it's definitely not necessary - but what works for my pug doesn't necessarily work for another, or your guild.

    The lowest dps in that 10m pug was > 6k, and with two trees keeping us up, the raid healing was pretty beast. If your group needs a disc priest at the moment to make it less painful, imo stick with disc - but when your dps step it up you'll likely find it pretty cake as Holy too.
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  15. #55

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Dual spec, one holy, one disc. I don't see what the issue here is...
    If you're a good holy healer then use holy outside of this fight. I'm assuming they didn't say you have to heal as disc 100% of the time, just for 1 fight.
    If the fight goes much smoother with disc then you're just making it harder for the other 9 people because of your refusal to help out as best you can.

  16. #56

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    In response to the opp. its your dumb ass guild leader that is making you switch not the fight.

    Saying disc is a must in this fight is retarded as on 10 man my guild has a holy pally solo heal it for the entire wing. that means every boss is solo heal able. the only real challenge is the gunship battle and that is all about positioning.

    I hate posts like this that imply a fight requires a disc priest. its all horse shit. your in a lower progression guild. There is nothing wrong with that. however it also means you will struggle with current content. that struggle is lessened by having a disc priest in the raid with you. thats it.


    Disc priest is absolutely zero percent required for this fight.

  17. #57

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Is it so mutch of a pain to use a spec that benefits the fight? Im a disco at heart but il go holy if the setup/fight requires it even when im not to familiar and comfortable with the spec.
    Paying $15 a month doesn't give you the right to win, it gives you the right to compete, the rest is up to you.

  18. #58

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Another strategy is to let the first mark die.

  19. #59

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by ohlins
    Is it so mutch of a pain to use a spec that benefits the fight? Im a disco at heart but il go holy if the setup/fight requires it even when im not to familiar and comfortable with the spec.
    Do your Death Knight tanks have to dual spec two tanks, or your warriors running around with a full Prot build and an Unrelenting Assault Arms/Prot hybrid because it's better for "some" fights? Is that all they're supposed to do? Are they not allowed to Arena, BG-honor farm, solo quest, or DPS? Good for you that you dedicate this character to nothing but PvE healing. Disc gear works pretty decently for Holy, but gear tailored to Holy's stat weightings is pretty crummy for Discipline, and building that second set (fourth, for me actually) isn't really something someone should be forced into.

    It is much of a pain when you lose the whole feature of "dual spec" and what it's supposed to accomplish just because your class has two healing trees. Death Knights have three tanking trees. Warriors have two tanking builds. They aren't forced to, Priests shouldn't either.

    Quote Originally Posted by zizfizziks
    Dual spec, one holy, one disc. I don't see what the issue here is...
    If you're a good holy healer then use holy outside of this fight. I'm assuming they didn't say you have to heal as disc 100% of the time, just for 1 fight.
    If the fight goes much smoother with disc then you're just making it harder for the other 9 people because of your refusal to help out as best you can.
    Issue is as said above. And sure, you don't have to heal disc 100% of the time. You just have to keep it in your off spec 100% of your time in Icecrown because if you don't and they wipe, they'll blame it on you. Saurfang is not difficult, if you're making it "harder" for 9 other people, maybe they should L2FP the game? Spread out 12 yards. Drag beasts out of melee, and kite them until dead. Make sure to taunt. DPS boss. Pick up loot.

    That's the fight. If they can't understand these concepts, they need to learn them or they need to stop playing. If they're relying on a gimmick right now, in that absorbed damage does not trigger Blood Power (I'm assuming it will in the near future, in all honesty), I hate to say it but they need to figure out what the hell they're doing wrong and work on it. If they can't, then well good luck on getting further in Icecrown, with your fucking terrible guild.

    And Kootz pretty much summed up the rest of my point. Content has yet to actually require any spec since TBC. Your raid makeup could have a grand total of one melee, and you might have some trouble with a few fights but nothing truly difficult with a little more planning. Discipline is zero percent required. Hands down. If you think it is, tell your warriors and Death Knights that they have to run two tank specs at all time or /gkick. See what they have to say to you, if you think it's "weighing down on 9 other people".
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  20. #60

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    We killed him in 10-man a few weeks ago with a holy priest shielding people..

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