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  1. #21

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Evee
    TBH, they shouldn't have forced you to switch. A suggestion, yes. Something to try, yes. But a "you have to swap specs" eff that. After spending a couple weeks running into the brick wall that is sourfang my guild finally got him down. And guess what, no disc priest. It is not needed, and only serves as a scapegoat for the weak. Ranged need to be on top of adds, and tanks need to be on their A game. Next time you get told to switch, ask everyone else if they would mind not playing like a bunch of bitches who need a crutch.
    What a completely shitty attitude to have. I'm glad you're not playing in my guild. Also "brick wall that is sourfang" .... really?

    @ the OP: If you really have trouble downing Saurfang, be disc. You're vastly more helpful as Discipline than Holy on Saurfang. If you want to be a selfish prick and make the rest of the raid shoulder the load, by all means don't pick the best spec for a given fight. Once you get used to the fight and you're not having issues killing him, Holy should be fine again.

    I'm not saying it's a requirement, as a Holy paladin I just use Sacred Shield and Val'anyr procs to keep the Boiling Blood ticks to a minimum(we don't use a disc priest on our 10 kills and the last one had him at zero marks, 50ish BP).

  2. #22

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna
    Hello fellow priests,
    I'm part of a casual 10-man raiding guild and we've just downed Saurfang for the first time. I'm extremely glad to see the guild making progress, but I've got a bad feeling as well, because I was forced to go Discipline for it.
    I've been Holy as soon as level 10 and while I tried discipline and love a discipline priest in the raid, I don't particularly enjoy the spec. But now there's this boss on which we've wiped plenty of times and suddenly became a whole lot easier, just because I was trowing around shields. I've asked an officer if I should stay discipline and he said: "it's needed to down this boss'.
    So, what do you guys think, is a discipline priest really needed to defeat Saurfang?
    And do you know some arguments to convince my guild that me being holy is valuable to?
    I'd like to thank you all in advance.

    Ynna
    Best to go shadow instead and help on DPS so he doesnt get a mark of the fallen champion off...

  3. #23

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    If your guild is so bad that they NEED a disc priest to complete 10 man normal then they're in no position to be so dogmatic as to say you MUST run as disc.

    I'd say in 25 man hard mode guilds requiring a priest to go disc for an encounter would be a much more normal, and reasonable thing.

    Personally I'm disc/holy - if a fight is gonna go much better as holy then I'll respec, though I'll enjoy grumbling a bit about it

  4. #24

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Easiest is imo

    1 holy pala / disc priest / resto shaman
    1 holy priest / resto druid

    as your 2 healers, altho any combo works given that the raidsetup / gear / players is good enough.

  5. #25

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunterwep
    Best to go shadow instead and help on DPS so he doesnt get a mark of the fallen champion off...
    Fail, back on topic...you do not need to be disc, sounds to me like your raid has too many problems taking care of beasts/swapping tanks when they get the debuff.

  6. #26

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylith
    That we don't get to chose what our other part in dual specc should be? Like shadow or some pvp specc?
    If you are serious about PvE progression, your main tank already has two tanking specs, many of your healers already have two healing specs, and all your DPS keeps two specs viable to help the raid.

    So if you want to PvP or DPS, you shell out 50 gold to respec. I don't see the problem. If you aren't willing to do that, then your not serious about progression. End of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna
    The big deal is that I really don't like discipline pve. I also like to have a pvp spec as well and I'm not planning on respeccing every week.

    I'd like to keep my duel spec for pvp/farming. So my choices are either Disc pve and Disc pvp or Holy pve and Disc pvp. And like I've said I'm not particulary fond of discipline healing. While I appreciate the concept of preventing damage it just doesn't fit my playstyle.
    Then your not serious about progression, so, do whatever you want and either get a G-Kick, or hold your guild back, but don't cry about it. It's not -just- this fight that the attitude of "I want to keep this spec just for me to play by myself" is going to hurt you on.

  7. #27

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    People that say you must be Discipline are using you as a crutch. The "scapegoat" clause brought up here was a perfect example. It's not needed, not in the least. In 25's, it still isn't required for content. It helps, by all means. But if your Discipline Priest takes a night off (or a week, hey holidays!), that shouldn't be an excuse for your raid to start slacking and blame it on said priest's absence.

    If a delayed tank/melee AoE effect goes off at any time during that fight, you have more blood power than you should. That's their fault. If ranged aren't spread out like they should be? That's their fault as well. Swapping a spec that has stronger absorption mechanics/liabilities and having to build a gearset around that (Discipline gear is great for Holy, Holy gear not so much for Discipline) should be your choice. Not theirs. Saurfang has a lot going on, and a lot of variables that will cause bad players to need their hands held. You being Discipline gives them a bit of leeway so rather than improving their own performance, they can rely on yours.

    Main point: Them choosing your spec for you is actually worse for their performance, despite the kill you earned.

    Druid, Shaman, Paladin, or another Priest. There's no reason you can't 2-heal Icecrown, as Holy, with any other healer (With the exception of another Holy Priest, you might want to Dual Spec or roll a fail THH spec for that).

    Holy is fine. If your guild can't deal with it, find a new one.
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  8. #28
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    forced to go prot because we need an off tank ...
    forced to go arcane because its better dps ...
    forced to go disc because its better for a fight ...

    all the same

  9. #29

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna
    Hello fellow priests,
    I'm part of a casual 10-man raiding guild and we've just downed Saurfang for the first time. I'm extremely glad to see the guild making progress, but I've got a bad feeling as well, because I was forced to go Discipline for it.
    I've been Holy as soon as level 10 and while I tried discipline and love a discipline priest in the raid, I don't particularly enjoy the spec. But now there's this boss on which we've wiped plenty of times and suddenly became a whole lot easier, just because I was trowing around shields. I've asked an officer if I should stay discipline and he said: "it's needed to down this boss'.
    So, what do you guys think, is a discipline priest really needed to defeat Saurfang?
    And do you know some arguments to convince my guild that me being holy is valuable to?
    I'd like to thank you all in advance.

    Ynna
    So tanks should complain that they need to spec prot for raids because it's better?
    New and shiny compppppp!

  10. #30

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Icpie
    So tanks should complain that they need to spec prot for raids because it's better?
    No, though Blood tanks could be justified in complaining if they're forced to spec Frost for a single fight which is perfectly possible to execute as Blood. Nobody is suggesting healing as shadow here, which would be the equivalent of a Retri or Fury tank.

    It depends how serious your guild is about progression, the OPs guild doesn't sound very serious or they wouldn't be having such problems in the first place.

  11. #31

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Icpie
    So tanks should complain that they need to spec prot for raids because it's better?
    Completely irrelevant unless you are talking about Tanking DKs going Blood/frost/unholy because Palas/Warriors/Druids only have 1 spec. You wanna tank, you spec prot.

    Personally on normal there is no fight that REQUIRES you to respec, maybe its your execution that is at fault and not your healing methods? We didnt read any tactics on the fight the first night, went in 1 try for test, 2nd try was a kill.

    We have 1 shotted it every night since (on 10 man)

  12. #32

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Disc isnt needed, our 10man runs holy pally/resto shaman for 10mans and we do it fine.

    The fight is rather easy anyway, i did a pug on the weekend for 25man and we ended up downing him after 8, yes you heard it 8 marks were up >.>

  13. #33

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Icpie
    So tanks should complain that they need to spec prot for raids because it's better?
    That is not the same, at all
    Its like saying, hey your a feral dps druid... regem plz, ow and get those trinkets, cause we need you to tank
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  14. #34

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    As said before, not needed, very useful tho.
    Its "not needed" in the same way that a bloodlust is not needed. I suppose you could do it, but meh, you know you want that bloodlust.

    Also, aren't shamans terrible healers on that fight? Since everyone has to keep an 11yd spread, and chain heal has a 12yd range, people are very rarely in chainheal range - their most efficient heal doesn't work properly on that fight. Its like taking rejuvenation away from a resto druid.

  15. #35

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Disc Priest/Resto Shams = best combo for that fight imo
    Makes it super easymode

    Resto Shams can heal the tanks and melee all pretty easily with their chains, and the disc just shields the ranged with boiling blood, which just leaves the tanks getting smashed

  16. #36

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai
    Disc Priest/Resto Shams = best combo for that fight imo
    Actually, it's Disc Priest/Resto Druid. Although HolyPa/HolyPr works very nicely, on any fight including Deathbringer. The fight already is, as you put it, "Super easy mode"
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  17. #37
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    I only read halfway down the first page.

    I'm the Disc Priest in our guild and while doing 10 man Saurfang, I left the Healadin and Resto Druid to heal and went Shadow. We had 0 Marks because our tanks taunted swiftly, our melee stunned/snared the beasts quickly and the ranged DPS'd them down quickly.
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  18. #38
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    Yea me (Holy) and a Resto druid did it just fine last night. No troubles. :P

  19. #39

    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    one good disc priest can essentially trivialize the fight

    it isnt NEEDEd if your dps are geared enough but it is very very nice to have.

    Once hard comes are out , i would be amazed if it isnt a requirement at least at the start of hard modes saurfang kills.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Forced to go discipline because of Saurfang

    I run Holy/Disc as my specs. On the first week in 25, I ended up switching to Disc after 4-5 wipes, and we got him pretty easily. We had a similar experience in 10-man, except I swapped to Discipline sooner. However, after learning the fight and having people focus on staying spread out, Discipline isn't necessary and I've been running both as Holy because it's simply more enjoyable for me, even if it does make the fight a little harder.

    For 10-man especially, Discipline just isn't necessary because there's 3 main problems that lead to extra blood power that are all easily avoidable in other methods. First, how quickly are your tanks taunting? If they're waiting for the debuff to be called out on vent, that's 1-2 extra swings; they should be watching that debuff like a hawk and taunting immediately. How spread out is your raid? Blood Nova has a 10 yard range, so we typically have people spread out about 12 yards away from eachother; if it chains, that's double the damage and, thus, double the blood power. Finally, people should NEVEr be touched by blood beasts. Do you have a Holy Pally? Have him heal in the back with Righteous Fury to draw the blood beasts and have earthbinds/frost traps to slow them down, or Boomkins/Ele Shamans with their knock backs to keep them away from him. If you don't, have a Hunter Misdirect the blood beasts to a dps that is good at kiting like a mage with frost nova and blink. In fact, in 10-man, if you preposition well, no one should have to move at all, so blood nova should never be a problem. The only exceptions to moving are hunters running in to drop a trap and disengaging out, or whoever is kiting backing straight up, possibly onto the boat, then running forward again. Also, don't run more than 2 healers, more DPS means blood beasts die faster, he gets DPSed faster, less opportunites for blood power and, ultimately, fewer marks going out.

    So, really, Discipline is helpful if people suck at staying spread out or at not getting hit by blood beasts. Holy does just fine in that fight and, if the rest of your raid can stay attentive to positioning, may ultimately be superior because I don't see any reason why I couldn't keep up with all the damage solo as Holy IF no one gets hit by blood beasts and no marks go out; I don't think I'd quite be able to keep up solo as Discipline.

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