New Idea: Glyph of Claw(redesign)

[Qhara]

So as we know Claw is the basic CP builder attack for our lower level kitties until we get mangle.
On one night I was looking at my spell book and saw claw. I was thinking: "is that were claw ends?"

So i thought why make it dull when it can be better. Then i got this idea for claw to be used again.
(I also looked at the glyph and it is boring as the skill itself.)

Redesign for Glyph of Claw: Adds an additional combo point after a finishing move lands.
Basically after a Rip or a FB lands, you have a guaranteed 2 pointer skill.
(I also think that it would consumes a Predatory Strike Buff)cuz the buff ,imo, is kinda useless on PvE, so i put it on use.

So what do you think. Will it be as helpful as i imagine? Would it just destroy the whole Kitty Dps. Is my idea
even fit to discuss.

Oh yeah i know people out there will think "the kitty rotation itself is complicated, you thinking of putting another skill on the rotation?"

Im open for comments and suggestions. So feel free(maybe). =X

[Asotcha]

sounds like the rogues glyph of sinister strike, that has a 50% chance to add a combo point not too familier with kitty dps but sounds like a reasonable idea

[Basmothel]

They admitted Glyph of Claw was only useful for low level Druids when they implemented it.

Claw is destined to be replaced by Mangle. Blizzard doesn't want to make Claw too useful as they want you to be specced Feral (thus having Mangle) to be able to do decent DPS in Cat Form.

[Gasillio]

Kitty dps at high levels is annoying as it is to be great (yes some people are better than others, don't flame me for being bad - kitty is my alt's offspec).
The rotation is complex, and has many buttons. No need to add more buttons.

[Qhara]

Thank you for your honest replies.

I just want all skill to be put on use. I, myself also familiarized the rotation and have no problem what to press next. And also i have a decent dps with my current gear.
http://us.wowarmory.com/character-sh...Tundra&n=Qhara (i have a feral as an offspec cuz of guild needs.)

I think the idea of having a challenge within a challenge is nice imo.

[Melonberry]

You want to make the most difficult rotation harder by adding something that will actually lower your dps AND waste a glyph slot?

Count me out.

[Niter]

I despise Mangle animation, the effect, the sound, all of it. I think it is fairly stupid and has nothing to do with actually clawing, so I would love to get Claw back as viable option.

I believe they should gives us two 'rotations' to DPS. The first would be the one we already have and the other would be using Claw, Shred and Ferocious Bite, creating some synergy between Claw and FB. The second one would do less DPS, of course.

This way we could have: a short rotation for mobs with less HP, a quick rotation to PvP (Rip is amazing but it takes too long) and an even harder rotation to highest DPS kitties out there, trying to squeeze in a Claw before using Ferocious Bite, in order to improve FB damage.

Let's say a kitty does 10K with the current 'rotation'. With the second option, the same kitty could get like 6K. It would be enough to kill trash, for some solo situations and a good weapon against mobs that keep running away before you can get our normal 'rotation' going, like Ymiron (UP) and Anub (AN), just to point out easy examples.

[Horn]

You want to make the most difficult rotation harder by adding something that will actually lower your dps AND waste a glyph slot?

Count me out.

[Krayzz]

You want to make the most difficult rotation harder by adding something that will actually lower your dps AND waste a glyph slot?

Count me out.

He's right, it's fine how it is. There is no reason to change it or use it.

[shagrarz]

[quote]You want to make the most difficult rotation harder by adding something that will actually lower your dps AND waste a glyph slot?

Count me out./quote]

This....end of story.

[Melonberry]

I despise Mangle animation, the effect, the sound, all of it. I think it is fairly stupid and has nothing to do with actually clawing, so I would love to get Claw back as viable option.

I believe they should gives us two 'rotations' to DPS. The first would be the one we already have and the other would be using Claw, Shred and Ferocious Bite, creating some synergy between Claw and FB. The second one would do less DPS, of course.

This way we could have: a short rotation for mobs with less HP, a quick rotation to PvP (Rip is amazing but it takes too long) and an even harder rotation to highest DPS kitties out there, trying to squeeze in a Claw before using Ferocious Bite, in order to improve FB damage.

Let's say a kitty does 10K with the current 'rotation'. With the second option, the same kitty could get like 6K. It would be enough to kill trash, for some solo situations and a good weapon against mobs that keep running away before you can get our normal 'rotation' going, like Ymiron (UP) and Anub (AN), just to point out easy examples.

Claw does less damage than mangle. Mangle costs less energy. Mangle also puts up a necessary debuff for shred, rake, and rip. So you either have the current rotation, or claw + FB. Even if claw gave 3 combo points if used right after FB, you'd lose a ton of dps. If you tried to work claw into the normal rotation, you'd lose dps AND a glyph spot, so only you would use it. Even assuming the glyph and everything would give more dps, it would have to be more than 3% dps to even warrant taking the glyph.

So really. Argue all you want, but it would be a large nerf for the 2 people who want to use it.

[Hegar]

You want to make the most difficult rotation harder by adding something that will actually lower your dps AND waste a glyph slot?

Count me out.

As much as i hate purely negative posts, ^this.

Your idea is, in a word, bad - the drop in damage from wasting energy on claw would not make up for a gauranteed extra combo point.

Crit of above 50% whilst in combat is incredibly easy to get, meaning you are really only adding less than 50% chance for another combo point. Secondly, combo points themselves are not hard to come by the reason you should only ever use a finisher on 5pts is becuase of the superior energy:damage ratio - energy is the limiting stat.
The poor energy:damage ratio of claw makes it absolutely unusable in cat dps.

Then of course you come to the fact that kitties don't have the glyph slot to spare.


The quest to make every item in your spellbook usable is both unnecessary and impossible. Some abilities are so poor that the only way to make them useful is to supersede them with something else.

[Qhara]

Again, thx for the honest post. Even though majority is negative.

For my part, im just concern in reason being Claw is just a training wheel.
I only want best for every skill given. No argues though.

The idea might not be viable at PvE. Any thoughts for PvP maybe?

[Hegar]

For my part, im just concern in reason being Claw is just a training wheel.
I only want best for every skill given. No argues though.

The quest to make every item in your spellbook usable is both unnecessary and impossible. Some abilities are so poor that the only way to make them useful is to supersede them with something else.

Give it up man :P

It may seem counter-intuitive to have a spell with a use-by date on it, but it happens all the time (how many priests use the 'Heal' or "Lesser Heal" spells?)
Having a training skill is not necessarily a bad thing, and having vastly superior equivalents of basic cat-form abilities that feral specced druids can use and other specs cannot is a good thing as well.

Resto doesn't need to be able to get good use out of Rip, Balance is fine with no good reason to press Tiger's Fury, and Ferals don't need to use Moonfire, wrath, starfire, or claw.

[arel00]

Again, thx for the honest post. Even though majority is negative.

For my part, im just concern in reason being Claw is just a training wheel.
I only want best for every skill given. No argues though.

The idea might not be viable at PvE. Any thoughts for PvP maybe?

Thing is, Claw IS designed as a training wheel for ferals.

It used to be on Resto's cat bar for arena to maim peple and get a longer CC streak, I have no idea if it's used right now tho, been ages since I've done any arena.

The glyph idea, anyway, is good per-se. If they decide to change Claw's aim, it could be it. Yet I'd rather see it implemented in a talent you already take or on higher ranks of Claw. Wasting a glyph slot isn't worth it.

[Niter]

All of it

I understand and know every single thing you said, but it is fairly obvious that Claw would have to be changed in order to have things working like I said. The spell as we have it now does not even deserve to be mentioned and it is not practical in any sense.

I would love, however, that Claw was a good, valid alternative do Mangle but working differently. To be honest with you, I liked Cat better before. It sure is fun in PvE when fighting a boss and you keep you bleeds, buffs and debuffs up, it is a somewhat hard 'rotation' and it is fun, one can really tell who is good at it and who is not.

However, I like PvP too and I find that our 'rotation' is quite cumbersome and, depending on the scenario, very weak. Of course a full, good Rip does a lot of damage. However, before you can get that to work you must have Mangle, Savage Roar and then another 5 combo points to get Rip going. Shred is what really saves us, but when there is the latency issue (yours or your target's) or the enemy is strong and smart enough, you get very few Shreds off and the damage gets screwed really fast. Also, if you end up having to use Maim (which is now not nearly as useful as it was in the past) you screw all your work to get a good Rip off. And if we cannot keep Shredding and do not put that good Rip on our targets, we are almost harmless, IMO.

Most classes do not have to use a Mangle (debuff and CPs to SR), then get Savage Roar going (and only now we are actually doing some damage!), then use another 3 GCDs to get the damage going and it is not really that bursty, especially due to the changes to Resilience. So you see, we lose about 5 GCDs (best case scenario!) to get our really damaging move going. And it is a DoT and we are not Warlocks or Rogues, we have poor ways to keep a target being hit often and unable to retaliate easily... So Feral Kitties are really viable, but they know that their skill must be great and even then most will admit that the spec still needs a few tweaks.

The same issue can be found when fighting trash that you know that will die quickly. If you get 3 mobs, you will Swipe. If you have 2, you may want to damage each at a time and in those situations Druids in general (Feral and Moonkin) are kinda lowish on the meters compared to others who are really more bursty nowadays.

It is not really a necessity, but it is something I would like to have, a change I would like to see =]

[Balduvian]

The Feral Rotation should definitely have some extra spells/abilities in it, right? :

Nah, just think of Claw as a lower rank Mangle, with another name.

[Melonberry]

Most classes do not have to use a Mangle (debuff and CPs to SR), then get Savage Roar going (and only now we are actually doing some damage!), then use another 3 GCDs to get the damage going and it is not really that bursty, especially due to the changes to Resilience.

To a lesser extent, Slice and Dice buff, then get Hunger for Blood going. (Which is why hfb isn't used in pvp, feral just doesn't get a choice)

But really, feral just isn't the easiest class, and doesn't have a lot of utility. A rogue would have vanish, feint, cc, etc while the feral doesn't have half as much.

I'd love to see feral a bit better off in pvp, but mangle, savage roar, and FB would still be better than trying to add in claw. Shred actually doesn't do much more DPE than mangle.

[KresnikHellfire]

It may seem counter-intuitive to have a spell with a use-by date on it, but it happens all the time (how many priests use the 'Heal' or "Lesser Heal" spells?)

While I'm not going to get into the whole claw-mangle-rotation debate (my druid is only level 60), I'd have to say this is pretty much the only occassion in the game where this happens, other than claw being the levelling move. I've levelled the majority of classes in the game at least to about the 60 level, and claw being a combo-point builder for feral until 50, and lesser heal/heal being the big heals for priests until... whatever level it is, are the only examples.

And the way to view lesser heal/heal, is that they are basically downranks (if you played when downranking existed) of Greater Heal.