Paladin threat help

[enbee]

I would also replace that Taunt Glyph with the judgements one, and the expertise with the Hammer of the Righteous (if you so choose).

Don't.

If you're not hitcapped, the first glyph in should always be taunt.

[Maleia]

Don't.

If you're not hitcapped, the first glyph in should always be taunt.

K, we have two taunts, while i've seen it happen, it's low that both will miss. It's also still not possible to hit cap it. I've had it miss with the glyph. So there's no use it having something that doesn't work.

[Geary]

I also will suggest moving 5 points someplace to get Seals of the Pure. Drop Crusade..

I disagree. Crusade is better TPS than SotP per point on Gormok, Jaraxxus, Twin Valks, Anub and his adds... ie, everything but Icehowl and the worms.

[enbee]

K, we have two taunts, while i've seen it happen, it's low that both will miss. It's also still not possible to hit cap it. I've had it miss with the glyph. So there's no use it having something that doesn't work.

While I have noticed misses with the taunt glyph, it was always HoR and not RD, that part might've been misimplemented, either the glyph doesn't add to it, or it's spellhit, I'm thinking the former. That still makes RD 100% reliable (hitwise). It is perfectly possible to hitcap anything.

Also I see you're specced/glyphed/geared for dungeon tanking. That's fine and all, but the OP asked for raid advice did he not?

[enbee]

I also will suggest moving 5 points someplace to get Seals of the Pure. Drop Crusade, Drops PoJ, drop Command, drop vindication, it's not going to do jack on AoE fights, and any warrior/druid pug that comes in and shouts will over ride it, so they just wasted your time. Fill out Divinity it makes your healers like you more. Fill out SA if you're having issues with mana on easier content.

Missed that bit the first time I read your post.

Dear god that's some crap advice. First of all vindication will never be overwritten unless the warrior or druid in question has improved shouts (most of them don't). Second of all, you want to be self sufficient for mitigation debuffs.

Pursuit of Justice is only droppable if you runspeed enchant, which will still be less good than having PoJ, you drop stamina and a little speed. Having just 1 point in conviction, and 3 points in crusade is always going to be better than having Sotp, even ignoring the utility you lose by speccing into holy...



Disclaimer : I don't mean to be offensive, but I see so much bad advice being given out on these forums, stop it!

[Maleia]

Missed that bit the first time I read your post.

Dear god that's some crap advice. First of all vindication will never be overwritten unless the warrior or druid in question has improved shouts (most of them don't). Second of all, you want to be self sufficient for mitigation debuffs.

Pursuit of Justice is only droppable if you runspeed enchant, which will still be less good than having PoJ, you drop stamina and a little speed. Having just 1 point in conviction, and 3 points in crusade is always going to be better than having Sotp, even ignoring the utility you lose by speccing into holy...



Disclaimer : I don't mean to be offensive, but I see so much bad advice being given out on these forums, stop it!

Most come with it on my server (warriors/druids) also i meant to add in get tuskar's

[Geary]

While I have noticed misses with the taunt glyph, it was always HoR and not RD, that part might've been misimplemented, either the glyph doesn't add to it, or it's spellhit, I'm thinking the former. That still makes RD 100% reliable (hitwise). It is perfectly possible to hitcap anything.

Also I see you're specced/glyphed/geared for dungeon tanking. That's fine and all, but the OP asked for raid advice did he not?

It's spell hit (17%). Confirmed with extensive discussions/testing on Tankspot: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...iscussion.html

[Ninfetaz]

Well mate if you are using the 6969 rotation well you shouldn't be having problems! Anyways, if you change your libram to Libram Of Valiance your threat will go up for sure!

On a final note: Thorns on my server is the worst name ever.

[enbee]

It's spell hit (17%). Confirmed with extensive discussions/testing on Tankspot: http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/5...iscussion.html

The testing was done with HoR, which they seemed to have dropped the ball on when they added it, as it was added long after taunts were made melee hit.

All taunts were made melee hit pre 3.0, can look up the patchnotes if you are insistant

[Maleia]

While I have noticed misses with the taunt glyph, it was always HoR and not RD, that part might've been misimplemented, either the glyph doesn't add to it, or it's spellhit, I'm thinking the former. That still makes RD 100% reliable (hitwise). It is perfectly possible to hitcap anything.

Also I see you're specced/glyphed/geared for dungeon tanking. That's fine and all, but the OP asked for raid advice did he not?

Okay, specced for dungeon tanking, I still have raid completions like Ulduar Drakes, Most of ToGC cleared, Algalon, Death's Demise. So I think I'm set for raiding. I have more than one set of gear so you're most likely seeing my Threat set. As far as Spec, it's more than enough for MTing every boss fight thus far, since my guild does not distinguish between "Main tank" and "Off tank", myself and other other tank switch off every other night or when we feel like doing the other job.

[Geary]

The testing was done with HoR, which they seemed to have dropped the ball on when they added it, as it was added long after taunts were made melee hit.

All taunts were made melee hit pre 3.0, can look up the patchnotes if you are insistant

What happened in 2.3 was:

"Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by (melee) hit rating."

Which has nothing to do with defining the hit cap for taunt (still 17%.) Note, the word melee was not in the patch notes, I added it for clarification.

[Skiball]

Try this sequence when starting a fight:

Avenging wrath (large threat boost),
Holy Shield and Divine plea (these are up as you engage so you don't have to waste GCDs when trying to grab threat quick)
Hand of reckoning pull (dosen't do damage if it is already targeting you)
Avenger's Shield
Shield of Righteousness
Consecrate, start 969 rotation.

From my experience this is the easiest way to get initial burst threat. Good luck

[Maleia]

Try this sequence when starting a fight:

Avenging wrath (large threat boost),
Holy Shield and Divine plea (these are up as you engage so you don't have to waste GCDs when trying to grab threat quick)
Hand of reckoning pull (dosen't do damage if it is already targeting you)
Avenger's Shield
Shield of Righteousness
Consecrate, start 969 rotation.

From my experience this is the easiest way to get initial burst threat. Good luck

I usually try to wait until i'm in range to hit with judgement to pop wings, since it's off the GCD.

[Amran20]

Try this sequence when starting a fight:

Avenging wrath (large threat boost),
Holy Shield and Divine plea (these are up as you engage so you don't have to waste GCDs when trying to grab threat quick)
Hand of reckoning pull (dosen't do damage if it is already targeting you)
Avenger's Shield
Shield of Righteousness
Consecrate, start 969 rotation.

From my experience this is the easiest way to get initial burst threat. Good luck

Next time you're out, try this instead:

Holy Shield + Plea
Cast Exorcism, and when it's very close to completion, hit HoR, and about 80% of the time both spells will land for damage, follow with Avenger's, lay down a consecrate, pop wings and 969 it up.

[enbee]

Okay, specced for dungeon tanking, I still have raid completions like Ulduar Drakes, Most of ToGC cleared, Algalon, Death's Demise. So I think I'm set for raiding. I have more than one set of gear so you're most likely seeing my Threat set. As far as Spec, it's more than enough for MTing every boss fight thus far, since my guild does not distinguish between "Main tank" and "Off tank", myself and other other tank switch off every other night or when we feel like doing the other job.

Thats all well and good, but you're advising him to change to your spec, when it will give him no threat benifit over having conv/crusader.

Also remember you're the one who called him your guilds MT

[enbee]

What happened in 2.3 was:

"Taunt: The chance for this ability to land successfully on its target is now increased by (melee) hit rating."

Which has nothing to do with defining the hit cap for taunt (still 17%.) Note, the word melee was not in the patch notes, I added it for clarification.

You apear to be correct sir. All the more reason to keep the taunt glyph it seems...

[Maleia]

I don't have many issues with 274 hit rating. I think i've had HoR resisted once in the last two months. Hit rating fluctuated some here and there, but not drastically.

There's no reason to have a glyph that doesn't work. Find a way around it if you have to. If your other tank is dieing because he took a third stack of Impale, chances are pretty high that it wasn't the third impale, but a lack of use in cooldowns, not enough gear or a healing issue. Not saying that it can't be the result of it and not saying that you should go around slacking off, but if that's an issue, you should be open to any number of possibilities for areas of lack.

[Cardolan]

OP, one point for DS isn't going to help your raid, you need to either find a way to fill it out, or don't bother. If you're looking to MT bosses 75%+ of the time, then don't bother with that talent, you'll never get to use the ability.

I'm guessing this is your only set of gear for tanking. If this is a main toon and spec, and you're wanting to be serious about tanking, i suggest you start working towards multiple sets of gear, one for threat and one for avoidance, swapping out parts when needed depending on the fight, raid comp.

If you're going to just keep one set, i suggest you build an more all purpose set, and get another item or two with SBV, and a tad more hit. If you can get the SBV Glyph from Vezax still, try to pick one up, if not spend the triumphs for the Str libram. If you can as well, pick up a Greatness:Str card for easier content (anything outside of ICC and ToGC25 should be considered easy for your gear)

I would also replace that Taunt Glyph with the judgements one, and the expertise with the Hammer of the Righteous (if you so choose).

I also will suggest moving 5 points someplace to get Seals of the Pure. Drop Crusade, Drops PoJ, drop Command, drop vindication, it's not going to do jack on AoE fights, and any warrior/druid pug that comes in and shouts will over ride it, so they just wasted your time. Fill out Divinity it makes your healers like you more. Fill out SA if you're having issues with mana on easier content.

If you're looking to maintank bosses at all, Divine Sacrifice + 2/2 Divine Guardian is the best choice for your three filler talent points. He can lose the 2/5 Divinity, because it translates to pure overhealing anyway. Regardless of whether or not you'll get to use Divine Sacrifice itself, the 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds can be triggered by using Divine Sacrifice and then cancelling it again (using a macro).

He's a Paladin, he really doesn't need multiple sets of gear. If he's as well geared as his DPS, he won't have problems with threat. At most, he'll want the Libram of Valiance and maybe a DPS trinket, and they'll generally just be for when he doesn't need extra avoidance and wants things to die faster.

Replacing the Glyph of Righteous Defense with the Glyph of Judgement is about the only decent piece of advice you've given, but probably not worth it. Dropping the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance is a very bad idea.

No no no no no. The spec he has, aside from the two points in Divinity (and arguably the point in Seal of Command), is the best he could have.

[enbee]

I don't have many issues with 274 hit rating. I think i've had HoR resisted once in the last two months. Hit rating fluctuated some here and there, but not drastically.

There's no reason to have a glyph that doesn't work. Find a way around it if you have to. If your other tank is dieing because he took a third stack of Impale, chances are pretty high that it wasn't the third impale, but a lack of use in cooldowns, not enough gear or a healing issue. Not saying that it can't be the result of it and not saying that you should go around slacking off, but if that's an issue, you should be open to any number of possibilities for areas of lack.

It's not that the glyph doesn't work, it just doesn't add all 17(14 with misery or imp FF)% required to cap...

Even if a taunt miss doesn't always cause a wipe, sometimes it can, I'd rather not have that happen. Margins for heroic encounters are pretty thin early on, that is untill you have the gear to widen the margin, and a tank getting a 5th impale on gormok heroic the first week (3rd? what?) was most likely a wipe...

I can imagine saurfang heroic will be so much of a dps race that a missed taunt can cause problems for instance.

Point is, judgement threat is quite low, one of our lower threat moves even, increasing that by 10% isn't worth the minor chance of trouble, imo.

Your opinion vs my opinion, that's all.

[Azzzu]

If your guild master is one of those DPS too close to you on threat, then it's pretty much the gear difference which will cause that.