2PT10 (2low?)

[Datosh]

Waht did u think??

The Boni just make 2,5% of my total Healing in a fight i used Flash Heal 40% (as Holy)

[Danner]

Since it stacks, it's granting 11% extra throughput on Fheal (33% procchance, 33% extra throughput => 33%*33% = 11%). That means if your fheal is responsible for 40% of your healing done (a high number imo), that's a 11%*0.4=4.4% HPS increase.

[DaruneAlbane]

Danner 40% is not a high number it is in the right range for a holy tank healer or a good reactive healer.
Give a holy priest a decent amount of haste + crit have them know how to properly use serendipity stacks and Guardian spirit keeping PoM bouncing with a renew running on a couple of primary targets. Diff play styles

[Danner]

True, but... Holy Tank Healer?
I reserve my right to taunt the idea, monthy python style

Yes, Holy can tankheal if pressed. The basic idea is to take advantage of serendipity/gheal rotations, using ProM and renew and pray dearly that the tank won't take major damage spikes more often than every 25 seconds or so.

Our single target throughput is low (even with the setbonus in question) compared to all other healers. Our Gheal "rotation" is utterly clunky and does not take into consideration how often tanks are actually taking spike damage, making you have to chose between saving Serendipity-Gheals for countering spikes, or maintaining enough HPS. You need some serious regen gear to be able to keep this up anyway, and if you gear for that you will have too low throughput - or vice versa. We're just not designed for MT healing. The only way a holypriest is MT healing is when seriously overgearing content and fheal spam somewhat suffice. In a few months we will be there. Until then, the idea's mother is a hamster and its father smells of elderberries. :P

You don't put paladins on raidhealing, and you don't put holypriests on MT healing. It's that simple. Holypriests are flexible enough to be able to pick up the slack when a paladin dies, but we're not flexible enough to be able to remotely do the job as good as a discpriest. And last time I checked, most discpriests are quite unhappy about their MT healing abilities these days.

Now, you can always go heavy mental strength for the sweet int bonus (= afford heavy use of Gheal). But this will cost you GS, which is a major letdown considering that's the best part of the holy tree. You can use GS as a throughput booster to fix some of the spike damage. But that is alot more unreliable than just letting a paladin, druid or shaman do the job. You can forsake a lot of your raidhealing ability as holy, by heavily talenting for throughput talents. This will also help a lot, but... again, the build will be weaker than a discpriest. And then what is the point? You will still need two builds to heal properly, why not let the MT heal build be disc, which is genuinely good at it (relative)?

--

I'm willing to be persuaded of otherwise though

[Noobwrench]

I think the 2 piece is kinda weak, the 4 piece is nice enough to make me waer the set though.

@ the above poster, you talk about this game like a shadow priest couldn't effectively heal all current content. Holy is more than sufficient to heal a tank in this easy, easy game.

[Danner]

Holy can certainly tankheal with fheal spam alone in most content. It's the bleeding edge hardmodes and cases of tanks not being silly overgeared where this is not possible.

If not, get an ToC geared tank. Ilvl 245 at most. Then try to heal that guy through ToC25HC Northern Beasts. Kinda hard, no?
A paladin can do it. A holypriest most certainly can not.

In a few months when Heroicmodes in ICC open up, we'll have that debacle all over again.

[Zeuq]

@ the above poster, you talk about this game like a shadow priest couldn't effectively heal all current content. Holy is more than sufficient to heal a tank in this easy, easy game.

Holy is capable in most cases, but far from ideal. As Danner pointed out, we simply cannot match both the longevity and throughput of other classes on a tank. Of course I can MT heal in ToC 25 or other crap like that, but I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it in ToGC 25 especially since a Holy Priest's abilities are best suited for other tasks. Any raid running ToGC 25 and having a Holy Priest MT healing, unless ALL of their healers are Priests, is just making the fight more difficult than it needs to be.

[DaruneAlbane]

If you cannot heal a tank as holy in hard modes then you are either not spec properly or you are not that good of a player sorry to say that.

I do agree it is a bit more challenging but when you have 2 out of 5 flash heals crit for between 10-12k ... and a normal flash heal is 6-7k you do not really have a problem healing them.

edit: with hasted GH for big spikes and GS for the OCRAP moments

[Kelesti]

If you cannot heal a tank as holy in hard modes then you are either not spec properly or you are not that good of a player sorry to say that.

I do agree it is a bit more challenging but when you have 2 out of 5 flash heals crit for between 10-12k ... and a normal flash heal is 6-7k you do not really have a problem healing them.
edit: with hasted GH for big spikes and GS for the OCRAP moments

How does a 6k flash heal crit for 12? Last I checked, heal spells don't have a crit modifier, and as such are stuck at 1.5x. Your 6-7k turns out to 9-10.5, nowhere near 12.

Secondly, "Oh crap" moments happen frequently. It's the point of reduced tank avoidance, and unavoidable (mostly magical) damage. It hits hard, and it has to be healed through. Perfect example (even before Icewell Fradiance) was Gormokk. "Oh crap" was happening roughly every 30 seconds when another Impale went out. Holding your own between 3, 4, and 5, when you can only Guardian Spirit one of those? Yeah not happening. Another perfect example? Marrowgar. He hits hard (personally I don't think he needed the nerf). Between his saberlash, his cleave, and his hard hitting auto attacks, there's a fair bit of damage going out (not to mention fire), at both regular and sporadic intervals. Mitigation's lower, tanks are still getting hit hard, and more frequently.

Falling behind on outgoing HPS is not an option, and weaker spells that -might- crit aren't enough, but slower spells that -might- land in time are just as bad.

If you're trying to tank heal as Holy in hard modes, I hate to say it but you're doing it wrong. And nobody runs with 3/3 Improved, 5/5 Empowered Healing anymore. 70 second cooldown on Guardian Spirit isn't enough to catch up, Mental Strength and Soul Warding would not be worth dropping it, and the problem with Serendipity is you can't "hold it" for Greater Heal #2, like you can with an "on use" trinket.

[Ândrömèdâ]

I do agree it is a bit more challenging but when you have 2 out of 5 flash heals crit for between 10-12k ... and a normal flash heal is 6-7k you do not really have a problem healing them.

- 2 out of 5 crit FH sounds big for a holy priest imo (with my disc, raid buffed i run 40-45% so I would assume it would be more 3 out of 10 or something right?)

- 6-7k normal FH value : sorry but I don't think any normal geared holy would be so low with SPI throughput. Playing disc my normal FH hit this range so it would be strange you got the same with holy

- In 10 man normal raid, there should not be any trouble for holy with apropriate template

- In 25 man, nobody's solo healing a tank. Pala, disci are always helped by raid healers.

- In hard modes then you mostly have 2 healers dedicated on the MT. Disc + Holy proved efficient just like pala + drood or pala + disc. Of course pala + disci is pretty much easier i have to admit, but this doesn't mean that any other healer combination would not be feasible. (Once again no miracle : if you're raid healer then you have to tune your template in order to be better at tank healing, this sounds obvious but anyhow better saying it I guess )

[Danner]

I don't believe in 7k non-crit flash heals. Really. You may hit a warlock in fel armor for that amount, but no way are you hitting a tank for that amount.

You need 4343 spellpower to see a 7k fully talented non-crit fheal. I'm a thousand spellpower below this with optimal raidbuffs enabled. Sure, I'm stacked heavily on the regen front, but even the spellpower stacker in my guild is not surpassing 3.6k raidbuffed at the moment. That takes you at best to 6.5k fheals.

Also, no holypriest would be caught dead with 45% crit. Sorry, no way. We want haste over crit, as crit if giving us nothing beyond a wildly diminishing return on holyconc uptime.

Ultimately, your argument about speccing for tank healing fails on another point though. A discpriest is BETTER at single target throughput than a holypriest. He has stronger single target burst capabilities thanks to penance and a very excellent shield. He has overall more throughput as fheal is stronger. He also brings unmatched damage mitigation to the table. Anything the holypriest can offer, the paladin can offer twice over in terms single target of healing potential.

If you have to specc for tank healing anyway, which you so strongly advocate, why not go disc?

[Zeuq]

You need 4343 spellpower to see a 7k fully talented non-crit fheal. I'm a thousand spellpower below this with optimal raidbuffs enabled. Sure, I'm stacked heavily on the regen front, but even the spellpower stacker in my guild is not surpassing 3.6k raidbuffed at the moment. That takes you at best to 6.5k fheals.

FTR, 4343 SP is not out of the question. I'm still not quite gemming full throughput--some of that throughput is Haste and some of the non-throughput is just being lazy since I'll be replacing pieces in a week or two max)--and I hit just shy of 4.2k with a Demo Lock in the raid or just over 4k with an Elemental Shammy. I'd easily hit 4.3k, if I regemmed straight SP or with a couple more upgrades. It doesn't detract from the overall point at all, but the gear is definitely available to achieve that level of spell power.

[Ândrömèdâ]

I am a disc priest

I do not say holy was as good for tank healing as a disc , I just say this is not impossible in most situations. nothing more^^ Some specs are better for some roles that is clear but this doesn't mean you can't assume another role properly (event if more difficult or less optimum i mean).

Let's just see : how many disc priest are raid assigned in PUGs by uninformed players? "You're a priest,, you raid heal". First you try to explain then either you leave party, either you mute and do what they want. And even in that unoptimized position you can still fulfill your job, don't you think? (i am not speaking about hard modes there of course)

[Danner]

I am a disc priest

Aha. That explains the crit

I'm just saying it's very suboptimal to MT heal as holy. When the tank takes silly spikes every 2 seconds, even discpriests are at a disadvantage. I kinda wish this wasn't true; priests are supposed to be versatile. But as holy, our versatility is limited to many types of grout. You need a real healer (paladin primary, druid / shaman secondary) to keep a MT up. Holy can certainly add to it, but when it all comes down to it, we don't have penance. We don't have a godly nourish or swiftmend. We don't have riptide/HW/LHW combos. Our tool is serendipity/Gheal combos, which sadly takes too much time to build up to be reliable.

[DaruneAlbane]

and that is the point i wanted to make i did not say it was EASY healing as a holy priest on a main tank "way easier in 10m then 25m though" but if as all the data shows that the 2p t10 stacks .. it will help level out those "damage" spikes

2-3 k tic from the stacked flash heal + 3k renew + 6-12k flash heal + gheal for spike damage + GS when in an OCRAP moment or when you know a really really big hit is inc

EDIT: and i can see where they going on the 2p though gives them 2 separate dials they can turn for priest to boost up their healing leading up to cata dial 1 chance to pop hot dial 2 amount it pops for

EDIT: again .. sigh LOL and i do agree that for a non tank healing holy priest or the renew/pom/coh priest the 2p bonus is not the greatest but the 4p for them is

and that is not really counting the bonus healing you get from other players talents which will/can shift all those numbers up by 5-10% depending on situation

and in 25m raid situation the way we normally assign healers for tank is 1 primary and one "floating" we run with 5 healers so the other 2 are assigned to the raid

on high raid damage situation we have a 6th player that is shaman that is normaly ele that flips back and forth as needed

if you want you can search for my posts i have linked my toon often enough that you can find it. my ultimate goal for stats is 1600 int 1500 spirit 25% haste 30% crit 4k sp unbuffed 1200/600 in/out mp5 "nice to have a high goal to aim for"

if you also look at my gear you can tell if it does not have spirit on it as a cloth piece i do not pick it up but it is making it a bit hard to hit my haste/crit goal so am planning on doing duo

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51849
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50008

which will free up some stats in other pieces of gear that i can flip

[Worshaka]

Waht did u think??

The Boni just make 2,5% of my total Healing in a fight i used Flash Heal 40% (as Holy)

If FH accounts for 40% of your healing as holy you're playing holy terribly wrong... while the makeup of healing changes dramatically between encounters, FH reaching 40% is just bad unless you were asked to MT heal which you should only ever do in rare circumstances.

Generally speaking you will see PoM, CoH, PoH and Renew all eclipse your FH output. (again encounter dependant).