Druid tanks need major threat buff?

[Cardrels]

I have been playing bear tank since LK came out and I think we need a major threat buff. My gear is fairly decent, mostly il245 with some il232, and I use the correct rotation all the time. I even have Maul Macrod to every one of my skills. The problem I am running into is in a raid, I can generally pull about 7-9k tps but every pally I see, even less geared then myself, is facerolling 10k threat. Equally geared pallys are doing 13k-14k threat. Even using Berserk and spamming mangle with 5xLacerates up, I cant hit this mark. Do pallies just need a nerf or should they increase the threat on bears by a fair amount?

[kassy]

paladins are op, they have ben since 3.0, and tehy will be till cataclysm, there's no point comparing yourself to them. only reason you'd need a threat buff, is if the dps in your raid keeps pulling off you, which at 7-9k tps I find very hard to see should happen. and even the there's still paladins around for hand of salvation along with the fact that all pure dps classes have their own threat drops/reductions anyhow.

[Cardrels]

paladins are op, they have ben since 3.0, and tehy will be till cataclysm, there's no point comparing yourself to them. only reason you'd need a threat buff, is if the dps in your raid keeps pulling off you, which at 7-9k tps I find very hard to see should happen. and even the there's still paladins around for hand of salvation along with the fact that all pure dps classes have their own threat drops/reductions anyhow.

All blizz would have to do is nerf them 4k tps and they would be somewhat balanced with other tanks. : /

[Layuth]

Use Fairie Fire on cooldown, druid threat is not that bad. Keep trying to compare it to a paladin and you will only upset yourself.

[Yeran]

There's a lot of armor pen on our t10 set, which we are forced to get the 4p bonus anyway. Maybe that will help us on our threat, I'm definatly going to swap in some armor pen trinket for trash and see how it works out in numbers once I got more pieces.

[SoulPoetry]

i'd like to think tanks are at least a little above your average DPS when it comes to disparity, ie. my class does X but this class does X+1000, neeeeeerf. taunt was changed such so that their tps is your tps if you ever need to swap and if there is a fight for aggro situation, the higher tps would perhaps let your dps push their limits. it's all progress towards the same end so i'm quite happy to sit there providing FF, Demo Roar, attack slowing and Mangle if someone else is happy to MT.

[Horn]

Assuming you aren't losing threat, what would be the purpose of buffing druids or nerfing paladins?

[fattycop]

feral tanks need threat buffs cause pallies do more tps, good one

[anyaka21]

I have a decently geared feral tank offspec, 5.3k gear score, I don't have problems holding agro,
Add that I also have a 4.8k gear score Prot Paladin, and I can honestly say that I prefer tanking on my Druid. While at times paly tanking is easy, there are problems, especially mobs that like to stay out of consecrate, or CD issues with Hammer and Avengers Shield. Basically semi limited AoE tanking capabilities. Granted that are great, but honestly feral is 10x easier with swipe spamming and it being none directional.

Threat buff, no, but palys could use a little love.

[Degrador]

palys could use a little love.

You better be trolling...

[Nithian]

As a die-hard Agility advocate for bears since BC I'm calling shenanigans. The stam-stacking nonsense that so many druids still go for is the reason for 90% of these "OMG NO THREAT!!11" topics. If you want stam you're going to sacrifice other things. If you want more threat then simply build your tank accordingly. Crit is grossly underrated for bears imo.

My druid alt's stats:
55%+ Crit 25-man buffed
45k+ Life 25-man buffed
47%+ Dodge 25-man buffed
6.2-6.5k+ TPS single-target
Sub 4700 gearscore.... ;D

That's with mostly badge T9 and the OoN staff.... : With 5200+ ballpark GS gear(especially a top-end staff/polearm) I don't see 10k TPS being a problem at all...which isn't even necessary imho. I can hold off 7k DPS now no prob, with a 3-3.5k TPS increase I would think 12k DPS wouldn't be tough either.

[badgerman]

Our threat is pretty good actually, no point in comparing us to paladin tanks atm cus there just so OP there in a league of there own, with huge burst threat, passive last stand and passive reduced damage with no CD and a prevented killing blow etc.

But our threat and tanking capabilities are pretty decant already so i dont think we are in dire need of any buffs as we have gotten a lot in this expansion believe it or not, although i do miss our ridiculously high armour like we used to have in tbc

[getefix]

As a die-hard Agility advocate for bears since BC I'm calling shenanigans. The stam-stacking nonsense that so many druids still go for is the reason for 90% of these "OMG NO THREAT!!11" topics. If you want stam you're going to sacrifice other things. If you want more threat then simply build your tank accordingly. Crit is grossly underrated for bears imo.

My druid alt's stats:
55%+ Crit 25-man buffed
45k+ Life 25-man buffed
47%+ Dodge 25-man buffed
6.2-6.5k+ TPS single-target
Sub 4700 gearscore.... ;D

That's with mostly badge T9 and the OoN staff.... : With 5200+ ballpark GS gear(especially a top-end staff/polearm) I don't see 10k TPS being a problem at all...which isn't even necessary imho. I can hold off 7k DPS now no prob, with a 3-3.5k TPS increase I would think 12k DPS wouldn't be tough either.

See, it's great to have good threat. But your health pool isn't big enough to bring you somewhere where you would need to have threat that high.

Unless you have the very very best gear, you won't be able to survive a fight gemming full agility. Even with the best gear available right now you would find yourself very spiky if you gemmed full agility. Don't start stam stacking by any means, but stat balancing is what gear choices should be all about.

[exochaft]

In terms of managing aoe threat while maintaining solid threat on the main target, a prot pally will have us bears beat easily. The AoE capabilities that a prot pally will use are "fire and forget," and a helluva lot less spammy than Swiping, and 9 times out of 10, the AoE situations favor a pally since you generally don't have to kite packs of AoE fodder (and if you're a smart prot pally, you get the hang of pre-placing Consecrations so you can nab groups on the fly). If you misplace a Consecration, anything greater than 3 (or 4 mobs depending on how you glyph) might be semi-problematic... I've had that issue with adds spreading out on different people, and none on my consecration. But honestly, I had an easier time recovering the situation as a pally since you have so many tools to get mobs off ppl as a prot pally. Alright, I'll even admit the single-target threat of a prot pally is still rediculously high as long as the boss is focusing on you. In crap gear against a raid boss (we're talking several blues), I was maintaining 7k threat sustained (10k burst) with a gearscore of 3999... good luck doing that with a bear with similar gear.

However, I don't think this means druids need a threat buff at all. This is equally an issue with prot warriors, as well... not sure about the DKs, I haven't tanked with mine yet. I'd say this is more of an issue where Blizz should take another good look at pally threat (considering they already nerfed Righteous Fury once in terms of threat). By no means is this an immediate issue, though. Even with the threat discrepency, no tanking class is in serious threat trouble for the current content. No one really cares about deaths on trash (unless it's nonstop dying from aggro loss), and most boss fights aren't big on the AoE tanking component... so no tank should be in trouble yet.

[Elunedra]

paladins dont count in IC ^^

itsall undeath hey get a 1% paive dmg boost, thier exorsirm crits and holy warth is imba ofc

as my personal TPS in the first 1-5 secs on a fight its low when i am stacking lacerate but when i ave ful 5 stacks i can keep argo off others whi my 7-9K tps

aoe tps hoever i epic fail only like 4K now i got the +20% dmg on swipe its a lot better

[spenzer]

paladins dont count in IC ^^

itsall undeath hey get a 1% paive dmg boost, thier exorsirm crits and holy warth is imba ofc

no pally tank is using exorcism while tanking . casting while tanking is bad REALLY bad. if we say holy wrath do around 4k average 30sec cd 4000/30 =13.33 x1.01 (glyph) =13.46dps so a 0.13dps increase is imba? thats the reason pallys do 3-4k more tps then druids? :S

[Cortano]

Bear wear is essentially DPS gear, and our threat is balanced around that. Where bears fall behind is when other classes swap in DPS gear, their threat skyrockets. The same is true of some wacky DPS/tanking builds that other classes can do, sacrificing survivability for crazy aggro. (bears mostly have all the bear talents that make a DPS difference already.)

Swipe is pretty weak by itself; I'd love to see demoralizing roar get an added threat component (something that builds up over time: the lifebloom of theat.)

Obviously stuffing stamina in every slot, still using the crafted resistance gear, and continuing to use a nightmare staff wouldn't help with keeping aggro either.

[sparks]

we need something like conc I will agree with that but even my sorry A can do ok in ICC instances.
Now I am not saying I am good and my pally can do HOR and 3.2K dps tanking. He can also grab agro
about 5 times faster than my bear.
Bears need time to get aggro, while all the other classes don't
Our cooldowns are slow as hell, basically its 2006 design with no changes.
poor work buzzard, and you say we need tanks. While in that same sentence you "DO NOT" even mention druids in all your statements.
But continually say DK, then pally and lastly warriors.
Plate optimized for tanking falls like rain, all jewelery is specific for plate tanks we are insulted.

F u blizzard

[Gog]

Although I haven't had too many times when I have been wanting for threat on my bear, I think that a bear specific tanking tier set would be nice. They would be the only class with four tier sets though.

I have a similarly geared prot pally and they both do about the same single target threat, the bear is really good in that regards although it does have the mace from the BH questline whereas the pally has a 232 weapon. Damn you RNG gods.

Overall I don't have a problem with threat, and swipe is great in that it hits straight away, rather than waiting for consecrate to tick if there are more than four mobs for hammer of the righteous to hit. Adding a threat component to the roar would be a handy addition though, even if it applied a aoe buff to the druid similar to the one that unholy DKs can spec for (can't remember the name, its been too long).

I must say I was doing 7k DPS on early trash in ICC 10 on the pally which I thought was a bit overpowered.

[osumat]

The only problem with bear threat is dumbass dps. The only time I lose threat is on non raid aoe pulls (if they don't focus in a raid, they are gone). For some reason the dumbass [insert dps class here] focus fires a target that has only been damaged by the tank with swipe. Swipe will hold aggro anytime the dps class does aoe like he/she is supposed to (blizzard, volley, SoC, hellfire). If I see a dps, especially in the random heroics where I have a pocket healer on vent with me, focus a target repeatedly they get saved once and after that I tell the healer to let them die. BTW, I have NO REASON to run heroics, but when I suffer through the wait on my alt mage for a tank, I kinda like to give back when i'm on my tank. Of course when I am on my mage I pray for a decent tank. When I queue on my tank, you PRAY for me to be in your group.