Priest holy spec

[Menolól]

Hello everyone.

My current spec is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZsxtcbMqihhcuAo:0dN

It was meant as a hardmode healing spec and has worked out great in Ulduar hardmodes and heroic totgc.

However with the new T10 2-piece bonus -Your Flash Heal has a 33% chance to cause the target to heal for 33% of the healed amount over 9 sec. Would it be worth to max out Empowered Healing for a stronger hot? I am also considering changing my glyph of prayer of healing for either the renew one or holy nova

This is the spec im thinking about: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZsEzcbMqqhbeuVo:0Nf

Not having test of faith kinda sucks though


What do you think?

[fabian]

I think this topic would better off in: http://www.mmo-champion.com/class-pr...ld-discussion/

Since pretty much this topic is what that topic is, but on a bigger scale.

[Eletharin]

A few points on your new spec:

1. Without Divine Fury, you're only getting half the bang for your buck out of Serendipity. Spell Warding is nice, but in a pve setting, if you're not a tank avoiding the damage and maximizing throughput is more important then trying mitigate damage.
2. Empowered Healing will be really nice with the new T10 set bonus ... but if you're trying to pimp out flash heal take both the points in Surge of Light!! (steal one from Healing Prayers or drop Desperate Prayer if you can get by without it)
3. Test of Faith > Blessed Resilience. Even if 3% all the time is a greater increase to your total net healing, an extra 50% when somebody needs it is more valuable.

What I use is http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbuZfxxcb0qih0euAo. If you're hurting for regen and need to shuffle some points into Healing Prayers, I'd do it (take from Spiritual Guidance or Empowered Healing depending on the spirit on your gear), but if you're good on mana I really like this spec.


Happy Healing!

[Menolól]

fabian you're absolutely right my bad and thank you for your feedback eletharin. Im running double solace so mana is not an issue. I think ill try out your spec.

[harky]

Euw. Blessed Resil > Empowered Healing. No Healing Prayers. 2/2 Surge of Light. No B&S.

Hey guys, lets run with really bad specs and forget all the lessons we've learned in Wrath because of a tiny gain to Flash Heal, our least used and weakest spell. Great idea! Hey, just to improve it lets nerf all our heals to barely benefit one.... oh wait.

1. With Divine Fury you'll still be using Serendipity only for Prayer of Healing.
2. Empowered Healing will still suck with the T10 set bonus.
3. Test of Faith is only +12% not +50%. The 50% is target health.

The 2p T10 bonus is bad. It's bad as Disc. It's bad at Holy. If you insist on a Flash Heal/Greater Heal build... drop all those renew talents. Don't drop all those good healing buffs. Drop the ones that only affect one thing that you're trying to gear away from.

On a more serious note... go with a Renew spec. They perform better.

[Eletharin]

1. With Divine Fury and Serendipity, it is possible to sub a Greater Heal in for a Flash Heal without losing the cast time increasing your throughput.
2. 33% bonus as a HoT 33% of the time means that any talent that benefits Flash Heal will be 11% more effective, which is substantial. As a priest you should be using flash/greater heal sometimes ... otherwise we're just druids but not quite as good. Versatility is at the core of being a priest.
3. You're right, its only 12% increase, but its still provides more utility then the 3% static gain from Blessed Resilience.


Also, the spec I posted is a renew spec in that it does take all renew benefiting talents. Moving 3 points out of Empowered Healing into Blessed Resilience is an interesting idea though (even with the 2pT10 bonus) ... more math then I want to do this late at night, but I'll definately have to look into that.

[harky]

The reason you won't be using Serendipity on Greater Heal is that you won't be casting Flash Heal when you're needed on tank heals. It results in a HPS loss. You're better off chain casting Greater Heal if you have Divine Fury. For Serendipity to be wanted on Greater Heal you need to fulfill a couple of very specific things: First you need to have 5/5 Divine Fury. Second you need to be casting Flash Heal as a raid heal. Third you need to then switch to tank heals suddenly. In that case you will get one hasted Greater Heal at the beginning of the switch.

There are a couple problems with this. First Flash Heal sucks as a raid heal and is completely outclassed by Renew. Second is that you need Divine Fury in a spec intended to help raid heal, for which Divine Fury does nothing.

The problem with the set bonus is that a 11% stronger Flash Heal does not compete with Greater Heal. This goes for Disc as well as people will have to face up to as easy to obtain 264/251 gear starts replacing the easy to get 232/245 gear, gifting (or cursing) Priests with tons and tons of unavoidable haste.

Point three was just a correction, Test of Faith is certainly better, but both should be taken.

[Izenhart]

So;

You FH heal 5000, and crit 8000, you'll have a 2640 hot.

You spend 5 talent points in Emp. Renew.

You FH heal 6000, and crit 9000, you'll have a 2970 hot.


370 more hot-heal.

For 5 talent points?

[DaruneAlbane]

The reason you won't be using Serendipity on Greater Heal is that you won't be casting Flash Heal when you're needed on tank heals. It results in a HPS loss. You're better off chain casting Greater Heal if you have Divine Fury. For Serendipity to be wanted on Greater Heal you need to fulfill a couple of very specific things: First you need to have 5/5 Divine Fury. Second you need to be casting Flash Heal as a raid heal. Third you need to then switch to tank heals suddenly. In that case you will get one hasted Greater Heal at the beginning of the switch.

and holy priest chain casting greater heal on a tank as a tank healer is why people think priests cannot keep a tank up. GH is used for mid level spike damage .. the main healing spell you use while tank healing is flash heal/gh combo with a rolling renew/pom and GS when you know some BIG spike damage is inc.

EDIT:
Eletharin that build you have is almost what i have but i do not have SoL have HP instead been debating on flipping it down or doing 1 in each still debating.. i love having the option to be able to use PoH in massive aoe damage type fight "mostly used in combo with either a haste pot a haste /use item or hero" it gives a priest a huge surge in healing when needed.

[DaruneAlbane]

On a more serious note... go with a Renew spec. They perform better.

they perform better in a situation where they depend on other healers to do the main grunt work since a renew spec cannot really HEAL anybody just "top them off" .. they leave the real healing to OTHER healers

[magicism]

Omg.

Holy Priests are not tank healers.
Holy Priests are not druids.
I personally don't like the Renew way of doing things as it just seems like trying to mimic druids, just will only 1 spell, not an infinite mana pool and less wood.

Oh and you threw me a bit when in your first spec you had 5 points in Divine Fury and then 0 points in Empowered Healing, but then in your second spec you put 5 points in Empowered Healing and Spell Warding instead of Divine Fury.

From what I can see in this thread, is a debate over the previous Cookie Cutter spec from back in Nax times and a screwed up version of the new Cookie Cutter template. Check out the Talent Build Discussion thread for spec needs, don't make a new thread.

[harky]

they perform better in a situation where they depend on other healers to do the main grunt work since a renew spec cannot really HEAL anybody just "top them off" .. they leave the real healing to OTHER healers

Renew specs use Renew to top people off along with PoH for heavy AOE situations, PoM, CoH, and when 'grunt work' is needed, FH + Renew on targets which results in more HPS than a spec specifically for FH. The difference is you can also roll healing on multiple targets since Renew heals for substantially more than FH. Once you have multiples HoTs in place the HPS difference becomes obvious. Yes, you're mimicking a Druid. No, that's not a bad thing.

and holy priest chain casting greater heal on a tank as a tank healer is why people think priests cannot keep a tank up. GH is used for mid level spike damage .. the main healing spell you use while tank healing is flash heal/gh combo with a rolling renew/pom and GS when you know some BIG spike damage is inc.

Sorry, but that's how you keep a tank up in easy fights on normal modes. When you need to be on a tank for a decent length of time, like say Festergut with 2-3 stacks, if you're wasting time on FH you're not doing it properly. As soon as you commit to a tank you need to be dropping GH. The only reason to use FH is if you do not have Divine Fury in your spec. As soon as you take it you switch to GH. FH spamming stopped being able to keep up in difficult fights back in Ulduar. Not surprisingly that's also when Disc stopped being the premier tank healer. Now there is enough haste that GH can be quick enough to not cause gaps in tank healing. If you're on a tank as Holy that means so are all your other healers, since you're the last healer who should switch to tank heals.

[magicism]

Yes, you're mimicking a Druid. No, that's not a bad thing.

How is that not a bad thing? You start playing like a Druid then why bring a Priest? Just get another Druid. As they are ment to work like that they obviously do it better.
Holy Priests can get away with doing this until a time whe raid damage is getting more constant and HoTs arn't healing the targets up fast enough. But this will never happen because that would make the content too hard and everyone would complain that they can't just get 2 tanks healers and 4 people that shift+tab between everyone in the raid spamming 1.

And Holy is STILL not a tank healing spec.

[harky]

I never claimed it was, but you'll still have to heal tanks now and then.

Mimicking a Druid isn't a bad thing because it works. It works and you still have GS, PoM, PoH, Priest cooldowns, Priest Buffs and various other Priest-only perks. It's why Holy was doing well in ToGC, it's why Holy did well in Ulduar hard modes and now it's why Holy is doing well in ICC. If you can't accept that it works that's your problem.

[Zeuq]

How is that not a bad thing? You start playing like a Druid then why bring a Priest? Just get another Druid. As they are ment to work like that they obviously do it better.
Holy Priests can get away with doing this until a time whe raid damage is getting more constant and HoTs arn't healing the targets up fast enough. But this will never happen because that would make the content too hard and everyone would complain that they can't just get 2 tanks healers and 4 people that shift+tab between everyone in the raid spamming 1.

I tend to favor Renew, and yes it mimics a Resto Druid in many ways, but that doesn't mean the style is replaceable by another Druid. Take Twins HM as a good example. A good Holy Priest will heavily mimic a Druid with lots of Renew spam and CoH acting a lot like WG. However, we also bring PoM and soL which will do a lot to help keep up the people that get low, where Druids are focused primarily on blanketing the raid. Similarly, a Holy Priest still has PoH which is also essential in that fight since you really can't expect your soakers to get every single ball. So, sure, a Druid may put out more total HPS, but Holy isn't that far behind (I can hit 11.5-12k as Holy, a skilled druid will hit around 12.5-13k), and Holy has the right tools to help even out the damage for the druids so they can focus on their blanketing and keep the burst damage from killing people. So, I think that replacing your only Holy Priest in that fight with another Druid, without perfect execution by your soakers, will likely result in the healing being more difficult, lower HPS for all the Druids, since they can't just focus on what they do best, and a higher probability of people dying.

[Shrié]

I tend to favor Renew, and yes it mimics a Resto Druid in many ways, but that doesn't mean the style is replaceable by another Druid. Take Twins HM as a good example. A good Holy Priest will heavily mimic a Druid with lots of Renew spam and CoH acting a lot like WG. However, we also bring PoM and soL which will do a lot to help keep up the people that get low, where Druids are focused primarily on blanketing the raid. Similarly, a Holy Priest still has PoH which is also essential in that fight since you really can't expect your soakers to get every single ball. So, sure, a Druid may put out more total HPS, but Holy isn't that far behind (I can hit 11.5-12k as Holy, a skilled druid will hit around 12.5-13k), and Holy has the right tools to help even out the damage for the druids so they can focus on their blanketing and keep the burst damage from killing people. So, I think that replacing your only Holy Priest in that fight with another Druid, without perfect execution by your soakers, will likely result in the healing being more difficult, lower HPS for all the Druids, since they can't just focus on what they do best, and a higher probability of people dying.

I tend to favor Flash of Light... however Renew is good! We have the talent for a reason. Now you playstyle ultimately is what it boils down to... You can renew blanket the raid which IMO is bad, however taking imp renew talents and being able to keep 2-3 renews up while using PoM, Flashes, PoM and CoH to "plug holes" from unexpected burst damage is what a priest does best... We are the MOST versatile healer and we can nuke heal or HoT or nuke AE heals! We by no means should be the best at anything; tank healing or raid healing but we can do everything well enough to make us viable healers... cause in the end every healer has its roll. (priests cater to druids and make them look good )

[Jahnaca]

I heal on a druid and on a priest, both are termed and cubby holed as “raid” healers. I am here to tell you hell no.

Currently my druid is speced cookie cutter and my priest is holy. I have main tank healed on both, successfully. My off spec on my druid is “tank heals” nourish/healing touch focused and I heal tanks worse with that one then I do my “raid” heal spec. Same is said with my priest, I hate disc and don’t find it as versatile as holy. I am more successful as a healer when I spec for several options and not just one. My reasoning is because on the fly I can fulfill many roles with in the team of healers. This is my play style.

In a perfect world you always have the 100% perfect group make up and no one dies. This isn’t the reality most players deal with. In regards to how one should spec, one should look at what they PERSONALLY do as opposed to what someone else does. Your group make up might vary as does the role your called on to do. Play styles also vary

On classes which are so versatile key binding your keyboard to one or two spells and rolling your face across it doesn’t do the class any justice. Know when and how to use all the tools you have makes you a superior healer. Learning the play styles of your other healers and working to complement the team and not duplicate it also makes you a far better healer. Being adaptive and thinking outside of the box, priceless as a healer.

Last week for ICC I had two trees, myself and another and a shammy. I put both trees on the tanks because I know they do very well as solid tank healers. I spent most of the raid convincing the other tree he can do it as currently equipt and speced. He didn’t believe me and set himself up to fail, and he did. Showing him the pars where two similarly built trees (I have living seed, he doesn’t is the only difference) with identical glyphs and only being slightly geared differently, one tree is very successful and one isn’t is an eye opener. Why wasn’t he? Simple 1) he told himself he couldn’t and 2) never switched out his method of attack to suit the situation better, druids are “supposed” to only toss rejev you know because they “raid” heal. The comment, “I can’t use nourish because I am not glyphed for it” floored me, neither was I.. I admit, what I was able to do may not have been perfect, easy or the best way, but it got the job done with what we had on the table right then and there. In the future I might have to look at another option if the same type of healer make up pops up again, while it won’t be don’t make two trees main tank heal, it will likely be, don’t put that tree in the spot.

Finally as a player who is a druid and priest I can tell you, they are not interchangeable nor is one better then the other. Dispite which toon I play I miss something off the other. Druids are king of hots for sure, and movement, nothing replaces hotting on the run. Though I miss the several options of group and single target healing my priest offers while on my druid. I do find both classes do more then adequate at raid and or single target healing and can be used in any role in a pinch by just changing up what your spamming more of. I have found forums to be great sources of information but not the bible, what is good for player A might need to be tweaked for player B. I also found people who think only within the box only limit themselves.

[magicism]

I never claimed it was, but you'll still have to heal tanks now and then.

Mimicking a Druid isn't a bad thing because it works. It works and you still have GS, PoM, PoH, Priest cooldowns, Priest Buffs and various other Priest-only perks. It's why Holy was doing well in ToGC, it's why Holy did well in Ulduar hard modes and now it's why Holy is doing well in ICC. If you can't accept that it works that's your problem.

What you want from your spec is there as a side thought, it isn't ment to be the main part of your healing or you would have more talents specifically to do with it. It would be like a Druid picking up all the talents to do with Healing Touch in their Resto tree and then putting all the left over points in random shit they don't need and then trying to copy a paladin.

[harky]

The difference between a Renew spec and a GH/FH spec is pretty large. You're looking at a change of up to 16 talent points. The difference in talents is pretty massive. There is more difference between those specs than there is between a PVE and PVP spec for other healers. You can then look at a Renew/GH build that takes Divine Fury for spot healing on tanks and that's different once again.

You're looking at things the wrong way. If every talent improving renew is taken you need to spend a minimum of 54 talent points. Your remaining talent points are then spent to flesh out the build. A total of 28 points in Holy and 5 in Disc benefit Renew. That means just over 40% of the talents taken in the spec directly improve Renew.

It's like saying there's no difference between 57/14 without and 57/14 with Divine Fury. They function in a very different manner. 53/18 is shifted even more to the point that they aren't even used for the same purpose anymore. Renew specs essentially don't cast Flash Heal outside of SoL. Flash Heal specs often don't take SoL because it reduces their healing.

[magicism]

I am sorry, personally I don't see how you can make a PURE Renew Holy build without taking trash talents. 3 points in to Imp Renew, 5 Points in Holy Spec, 2 points in to Healing Focus and you are stuck. Inspiration doesn't apply to any aspect of Renew, you can put one point in DP but then you still need another 4 points. Divine Fury or Spell warding? Obviously Spell warding for lack of a better talent. 4 points considered wasted. Oh whats this next tier? Holy Reach doesn't include Renew? Neither does Improved Healing? Uh oh sounds like I am going to have to waste 3 points in Inspiration and another point in Spell Warding. I mean come on, it doesn't feel like Blizzard designed our tree to allow some kind of pure Renew spec.

Sure our tree is amazingly flexible and you can do alot of things and make so many minor changes that I haven't seen in any other trees that make a large difference but really, I just really dislike Renew specs. Because it removes all the skill it takes to play this class and really, it doesn't help anyone. You can sit there arguing with me all day about how alot of the holy talents directly affect Renew (Which they don't, alot of the talents are only brought in to the equations ONCE you spec in to Empowered Renew and even then they are slightly suspect. And I counted 9 to be lenient with Holy Concentration, obviously you counted blanket Spellpower and crit increases.) but in the end it isn't how Blizzard want us to play our class, we shouldn't be trying to compete on meters. Druids have the HoTs so we don't have to and can focus on burst healing when people are actually in danger instead of binding Friendly Tab and 1 to the same macro key on your logitech keyboard, setting it to toggle on and off and then going and making a cup of tea.