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  1. #41
    The Patient tehmark's Avatar
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    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Eletharin
    A few points on your new spec:

    1. Without Divine Fury, you're only getting half the bang for your buck out of Serendipity. Spell Warding is nice, but in a pve setting, if you're not a tank avoiding the damage and maximizing throughput is more important then trying mitigate damage.
    Wrong

    Holy is for raid healing. You should be using your serendipity for prayer of healing, not greater heal

  2. #42

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Those fights just do not favor a healer who primarily spot heals.
    and that is a renew build priest you talking about there .. can only "spot" heal and assist with real healing

  3. #43

    Re: Priest holy spec

    No, that refers to any Holy Priest. They are not good when there is sparse intermittent damage. They get forced to tank heal, or stand around waiting for something to do. Marrowgar (except bonestorm), Deathwhisper and Saurfang are all like this and Renew specs actually do better on those fights because there are multiple targets to roll renews on. It's just something that Disc does better.

  4. #44

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by DaruneAlbane
    and that is a renew build priest you talking about there .. can only "spot" heal and assist with real healing
    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    No, that refers to any Holy Priest. [...]because there are multiple targets to roll renews on. It's just something that Disc does better.
    Last I checked, shields prevent incoming damage, but you still can't prevent random damage. You can buffer them after the fact, and wait for someone else to heal them while you buffer someone else. The safety net that Danner related it to, sure. They still need to be brought back up. And again, a Discipline Priest that spams 25 people with Power Word: Shield is padding meters, not doing their job.

    As for:
    They are not good when there is sparse intermittent damage. They get forced to tank heal, or stand around waiting for something to do.
    This can be said of the Resto Shaman, Resto Druid, etc. Tanks needing healed don't really care which source it comes from, so long as it's there. Holy's more than capable of "filling in" so long as you don't expect them to "take over." And if you're standing around, waiting, why not a Holy Fire or two? Even if damage is light on your end, if there's any movement a free B&S works nicely for anyone (Go go Assassination Rogues keeping up their DPS loltation!).

    All healers except Paladins get bored when there's so little to do. I'm personally surprised most of the people who play Holy Paladins haven't committed a mass suicide yet, because nothing's really changed for them since 3.0 was still in TBC (except the gearing issue from Illumination in 3.1).
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  5. #45
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Priest holy spec

    Kelesti, I remember you as a proud defender of the Discipline tree.

    Did I miss something?

  6. #46

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by {_Izenhart_}
    Kelesti, I remember you as a proud defender of the Discipline tree.

    Did I miss something?
    You missed tab targetting on Twins to meter-top like a shitty druid that forgot to spec Wild Growth.

    I am a proud defender of the Defender of the Discipline tree. When people were saying "Discipline is completely useless, bring a real healer" I brought in the value of the tree. When people learned how to /tab-friendly -> Shield, just to pretend to be a retarded Resto Druid that didn'g spec Wild Growth, but sits ontop of effective HPS and called that actual output, I'm sorry.

    I am a stronger defender of the Holy tree. People jumped on the bandwagon once the realised that even "the best guilds" must be bringing discipline for something, and so the skilled Holy Priests are few and far between. Discipline is a strong safety net, but those who can't play Holy are now playing Discipline because suddenly they think it's -better- all around, and infecting those around.

    Discipline is lauded as a "tank healer" in 10's. While running a variant of the 14/57 Holy spec, switching points around but still staying that deep into Holy, I can tank heal 10's too. Sure, I can't tank heal 25's, but neither can Discipline. I can raid heal, disc can cycle through bubbling everyone (which is not real healing, by the by), and I can heal them both before and after, while Discipline just cycles through target per target, accomplishing nothing real.

    So "anything you can do I can do better" is not a song that applies to Discipline. I don't need to defend Discipline anymore, people have seen its value. But I'm not letting anyone who enjoys Holy's fast, reactive playstyle be weighed down because people keep saying Discipline is better. Penance is better. Discipline is not.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  7. #47

    Re: Priest holy spec

    I can understand the dislike of bandwagon jumpers and I can understand the feeling that Holy isn't somehow an inferior spec. What I really can't grasp is how all of your comments have come off as claiming that Discipline is somehow bad. Most Priests are bad. Most WoW players are, in fact, horribly, horribly bad. However, that's really nothing against any spec, or class, it's just that WoW has a huge player base and many of those players aren't good gamers in general.

    Discipline offers stronger tank healing and more flexibility than Holy. Does that make them better? At several things it does, but on others it doesn't. We're still sitting at a point in raiding where the first healer picked in any 25 man should be a Discipline Priest and the second a Paladin. Does that make Holy Priests, Druids and Shaman bad healers? No, but with the way raids are laid out they are not as high of a priority. There are some exceptions when healing is extremely light, like say Saurfang, but in general that's just the way it works. You need strong tank heals and an adaptive healer so Disc + Paladin gives you both as a base. I can also understand not liking raid shielding, but pretending that it doesn't work isn't going to help matters at all. There are fights where raid shielding is by far the largest benefit to the raid. Would you also discount partial raid shielding on say Gormok, where you can pre-shield the entire melee group before the silence?

    Discipline shines because while other raid healers are forced to be reactive, they can be predictive. Do baddies do it? No. Do good Disc Priests do it? Yes. Right now Discipline is favored in ICC on a few more fights than Holy. That's just the way it is. Holy is fine in most fights, but does struggle on a few. If you want to defend Holy don't do it against Disc, Disc isn't the issue. The issue is Resto Druids, which share an almost identical toolbox, but all the shared spells are stronger. You swap Disc for Holy in fights that don't have much raid damage, but that's it. You can use Druids to replace Holy on any fight and the fight will play out the same unless you need GS. That is a legitimate problem. Holy vs Disc really isn't.

  8. #48

    Re: Priest holy spec

    I would however argue, Kelesti, that penance is a major part of being a discipline priest. Yes, there is the long cooldown. Yes, it is a problem preventing discpriests from being interchangable with paladins, druids or shamans on the MT healing job. But Penance is awesome, and it does make all that much of a difference when it comes to MT healing. A holypriest with penance would be a worthy challenger to druids when it comes to throughput. The fact that the discpriest isn't... is the problem.

    The problem is largely not the priest though.

    The problem is:

    - Paladins. Since they are so wildly better than the other healers when it comes to single target theroughput spamming, the designers have to take them for granted, and accord damage spikes accordingly. That means incoming MT damage will be effing insane. Nerfing paladins to about a quarter of their throughput relative to tank HP is the first necessary step for changing over to cataclysm style healing. I don't see that happening without paladins getting something else in the raidhealing department. But it absolutely must happen.

    - Druids. I just argued that MT healing must be less spiky. Ironically, raid healing must be MORE spiky. When everyone keeps on taking 15-25% of their HP pools in damage every few seconds, a HoT is the best tool to counter it. And if hots arent overall better than direct heals, the hots are unfortunately pointless. But as long as damage always accomodates hots, druids will always be the better healer. This is a design issue solved by making raiddamage more spiky. This will even the tables between druids and the other healers. But.... druids are first and foremost in need of a massive nerf to their mana. Either spells get more expensive, or they get less income. We can't spend another expansion with druids removing the bluebar from their unitframes.

    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  9. #49

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Most Priests are bad. Most WoW players are, in fact, horribly, horribly bad. However, that's really nothing against any spec, or class, it's just that WoW has a huge player base and many of those players aren't good gamers in general.
    It's like the circle spammers from the various stages of cooldown-free between 3.0 to 3.1. Except without even meters to justify their position, they invented their own that puts everything they do at 100% effectiveness. Many players are complete and total shit, but for some reason they get away with it as Discipline alot easier than they do with anything else.

    We're still sitting at a point in raiding where the first healer picked in any 25 man should be a Discipline Priest and the second a Paladin.
    This I'd have to disagree wth. First healers picked are the ones who can do their job, regardless of Class. Then, after they're along, you pick up what fills your needs. So long as your group is somewhat stable, you have an idea of who you're bringing for that night. I don't seek out a Discipline Priest to be the "first healer" I bring, especially when mine can't make it.
    You need strong tank heals and an adaptive healer so Disc + Paladin gives you both as a base.
    As an Adaptive healer, you can bring any non-Paladin to fill that role, including a Holy Priest. They all do it well, as a base.
    I can also understand not liking raid shielding, but pretending that it doesn't work isn't going to help matters at all. There are fights where raid shielding is by far the largest benefit to the raid.
    Tabbing between Friendly targets, hitting your next one with a Power Word: Shield every GCD is not nor will it ever be a real benefit for the raid. Might as well have brought the resto druid for those fights you say Holy fights for the spot. There are fights where strong absorbs mean a lot. But playing like that is not effective healing.

    Would you also discount partial raid shielding on say Gormok, where you can pre-shield the entire melee group before the silence?
    I said it a couple months ago, and I'll say it again. When the fear of your melee being one-shot is not present, it takes longer to shield them up than it does to precast a 0-stack Prayer of Healing and have it land less than half-a-second after the damage goes out. So yes, I would discount shielding there. I would not discount a Shield (and maybe a Mending) on the person who has a snobold beating on them just prior to the stomp going out, to help them survive. This is different.

    I'm not sure where this came from:
    You swap Disc for Holy in fights that don't have much raid damage, but that's it.
    Because on fights like Hodir, Twins, Anub'arak phase 3, etc, while Discipline is focussing on one target at a time, people are still dying. When the shield pops, they don't stop dying but you never actually brought them up in health, nor can you shield them again. That is beginning to carry through Icecrown as well. Massive Raid damage should never be handled by Discipline, only assisted by them.

    The resto druid vs holy priest debate resurfaces. Again. Except, the Resto Druid looks good on meters, and is exceptionally strong at maintaining people's health pools at stable points. There are few fights where even in constant damage, people aren't still being bursted beyond repair. Discipline is nice for a person or two, holding them off, but for raid-wide burst recovery you currently (and should always) want a Holy Priest. The fastest burst recovery a raid has. Guardian Spirit is just the icing on the cake.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  10. #50

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    I would however argue, Kelesti, that penance is a major part of being a discipline priest. Yes, there is the long cooldown. Yes, it is a problem preventing discpriests from being interchangable with paladins, druids or shamans on the MT healing job. But Penance is awesome, and it does make all that much of a difference when it comes to MT healing. A holypriest with penance would be a worthy challenger to druids when it comes to throughput. The fact that the discpriest isn't... is the problem.
    Penance is awesome. 100%. But even how awesome it is, it's not enough. Yes it is a major part of what it is to be Discipline. Even considering Penance though, Discipline just doesn't keep up, because as you said, the problem is balancing around Paladins.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  11. #51

    Re: Priest holy spec

    I completely agree with Kelesti. I've been asked by a few guilds that I've applied to if I knew how to lolbubblespam, and I've told them all that my 3 year old can do that, but that's not what makes Discipline good at raid healing, in the event they need to. People seem to forget that Discipline still has PoH and, with Borrowed Time, it works almost as fast as Holy's version. People freak out when they see that I use PoH during a raid with them, but I guess they only expect me to tab-target through friendly targets, spamming shields. I hate the label that's been placed on Discipline with the "lolbubblespam". I began running Discipline during my guild's Sarth +3D attempts to have a little more damage mitigation and I've loved it ever since, so I doubt I'll go back to Holy full time, but I will keep it as my off-spec to easily switch between the two.

  12. #52

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Okay, first, on fights where raid shielding is viable, those absorbs are in fact 100% effective. The unavoidable incoming raid damage makes any shield cast fully absorb its maximum amount before the 30 second expiration. That's just the way it is. I'm sorry if you don't like it. 'Inventing' a meter wasn't done to justify anything, it was done to try and actively monitor what was happening. It's something that Blizzard needs to give more support to and it's something they've admitted to.

    In regards to the first two healing spots, I think you missed the point. The combination of Disc + Paladin is the function of strong tank healing and there isn't another healer that can adapt as quickly as Disc. Now, I understand you think I mean 'spam shields + tank heals', but that isn't what I mean. I also understand that you don't seem to appreciate that idea that reducing incoming DPS is helpful to the raid, but it's something you'll need to get over and actually study to see the benefit of and that's well outside what can be done in a forum debate.

    One of the great benefits of PW:S is that you do have a 30 second window to throw it up. On my example of Gormok, if you have say 7 melee, you would not be spending 7 GCDs to pre shield all 7 melee in order. You would be shielding melee well in advance and using BT's haste on the tanks. The final melee shield's BT would then be used for a haste PoH to top off any extra damage melee took. Now, taking your example of a fight like Hodir, you're again overlooking how simple the fight is as Disc and how well Disc can do on it. Not through just tab shielding, but through BT. Holy will handle the fight by rolling renew, CoH and bouncing PoM with some SoL procs and PoH mixed in if it's completely needed. Disc will handle it in a very simple way, they will PW:S a target, then PoH damage, and keep doing that while throwing out PoM and if its needed they'll Penance someone very low.

    I don't care to get into the Druid vs Holy debate, but I will say this. Holy is the fastest healer to bring up the raids health in the short term, while Druid is the best healer to bring up the raids health in the long term. Unless the raid is taking near-fatal damage constantly a Druid is a more stable way to bring a raids health up. The only fight that fits a model that would make Holy the superior healer at bringing the raid up overall is 10 man Yogg when using a stacking strategy. I realize it looks good to be able to pop peoples health up very suddenly, it's actually not of a large benefit unless there is an actual risk of death due to the extra couple seconds the raid takes to top off. Boss design has not taken that route because it would require Druids to be buffed and they're already considered a bit too strong. The best Holy has been able to do is to mimic the Druid playstyle so that they can compete a little better.

  13. #53

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    Okay, first, on fights where raid shielding is viable, those absorbs are in fact 100% effective. The unavoidable incoming raid damage makes any shield cast fully absorb its maximum amount before the 30 second expiration. That's just the way it is. I'm sorry if you don't like it. 'Inventing' a meter wasn't done to justify anything, it was done to try and actively monitor what was happening. It's something that Blizzard needs to give more support to and it's something they've admitted to.
    So the fact that your Resto Druid HoT'd someone up, but the shield blocks all damage makes the Discipline Priest effective, but not the Druid. Or that 2 people in a group have been shielded while a Prayer is already outbound, so the Holy Priest is at best 66% effective, when Discipline's shields are all 100%, right. The meter was invented because people who use meters to justify positions didnt' feel Discipline was pulling its weight. People have since used that same meter to justify a meter-topping playstyle, despite its inaccuracy. Cycle targetting is a waste of a spot, when even a Paladin can do it better because they leave a HoT behind on Flash of Light, or splash little bits on Holy Light.
    That's just the way it is. I'm sorry if you don't like it.
    Your words sum that up.

    I also understand that you don't seem to appreciate that idea that reducing incoming DPS is helpful to the raid
    Renewed Hope dropping the raid's DPS by 3% is useful. Single target is not dropping the raid's incoming DPS, it's really not. Tab targetting a single target buffer zone reduces "effective" incoming DPS less than a tab-targetting Rejuv does. The only difference is you can see the damage from a druid, when you can't from a Discipline Priest.

    One of the great benefits of PW:S is that you do have a 30 second window to throw it up. On my example of Gormok, if you have say 7 melee, you would not be spending 7 GCDs to pre shield all 7 melee in order. You would be shielding melee well in advance and using BT's haste on the tanks. The final melee shield's BT would then be used for a haste PoH to top off any extra damage melee took. Now, taking your example of a fight like Hodir, you're again overlooking how simple the fight is as Disc and how well Disc can do on it. Not through just tab shielding, but through BT.
    First you say that Tab-Shielding is 100% effective and I should get over it, and now you bring out into the forefront the real tools of a Discipline Priest? I've always agreed that anyone that's Discipline using their tools is a good Priest. I've always believed that haste beyond Borrowed Time is not wasted. And I've been vocal about such things. However, the recent surge of "Priests should be doing:" here has mostly been about (As Cayleypriest put it) "lolbubblespam". This is not using a Discipline Priest's tools. This is being a shitty Resto druid that never spec'd Wild Growth. If you agree with this point, then the debate on this front (that most priests are terrible, and can "get away with it" easier as Discipline because of this style of thinking), is for the most point over.

    Holy will handle the fight by rolling renew, CoH and bouncing PoM with some SoL procs and PoH mixed in if it's completely needed. Disc will handle it in a very simple way, they will PW:S a target, then PoH damage, and keep doing that while throwing out PoM and if its needed they'll Penance someone very low.
    Holy will be bouncing Mendings at all times, have Renews going out both before and during, and Prayer entire groups. Squeeze a Flash in on someone who's low, whether instant or not. Circle is nothing more than a "clean up" spell, because it screws with your potential group-based output. A Disc Priest who uses Prayers and holds Penance is a benefit, one who does not but tab targets is a hindrance. But even with 25% haste on Borrowed Time, it's faster to cast an unhasted Prayer on group wide output. This of course has to be remembered, but mostly can be worked around (just like it can with Holy and Serendipity).
    The best Holy has been able to do is to mimic the Druid playstyle so that they can compete a little better.
    I'd have to disagree with that. But merely because it's never been about competing, and more complementing. Tab targetting shields is not complementing. Discipline using their tools as intended is a powerful force.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  14. #54

    Re: Priest holy spec

    I think part of this might be a misunderstanding. To clarify if that is the case: Raid shielding only works on one fight fully and one other fight for ~1/3rd of the fight (Festergut). Other than that it should be avoided, but on those two fights in particular yes, it is a good strategy. Other then that, no, it's meter padding and stupid. Very, very stupid.

  15. #55

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    I think part of this might be a misunderstanding. To clarify if that is the case: Raid shielding only works on one fight fully and one other fight for ~1/3rd of the fight (Festergut). Other than that it should be avoided, but on those two fights in particular yes, it is a good strategy. Other then that, no, it's meter padding and stupid. Very, very stupid.
    Exactly.

    And Holy's still a good spec. :P
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  16. #56

    Re: Priest holy spec

    TL;DR: Meaningless argument based on false assumptions and lawls.

  17. #57

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    If you agree with this point, then the debate on this front (that most priests are terrible, and can "get away with it" easier as Discipline because of this style of thinking), is for the most point over.
    ...Pretty rich statement right there. You turned the discussion into which priest spec is "stronger" because you have
    an issue with running pugs? And I say running pugs because raiders tend to not complain about players they would ONLY see in a pug, and even more make such ignorant statements.

    Here's a clue, the Disc and Holy tree BOTH are strong, viable specs in current content. Discipline FACILITATES the other healers better, allowing longer reaction times. Disc has a cycle, which is not bubble spam, this cycle is there to enable the other healers to do their job. If you are too narrow and blind and are so affixed on your meter results, which you clearly are as every argument you made related back to the meters.

    Making absolutely unfounded statements like "A shielded target still has to be healed" just works you into the ground and shows you have absolutely no real understanding on the current healing meta. Disc are brought FOR the other healers, to benefit those healers. You arguing that holy does anything better than disc is just flawed.

    Holy priests that take B&S are wasting talents. Tell your DPS to learn to strafe for 2 seconds to the left and your talent points are officially completely wasted.

    Holy is a strong spec, it has it's place, but it's not comparable to discipline, and it doesn't take any more of less skill to play.

    Want to know why? It's because mommy was right back in the 5th grade, you don't compare apples to oranges, you discuss how they taste together, and the many awesome flavours therein.

    Stop posting as if you are the priest sage from your unbelievably high saddle, the pugs you play in are not real raids, or with real raiders. Stop taking bad examples from them and using them in arguments with no basis.

  18. #58

    Re: Priest holy spec

    Quote Originally Posted by Tac
    ...Pretty rich statement right there. You turned the discussion into which priest spec is "stronger" because you have an issue with running pugs? And I say running pugs because raiders tend to not complain about players they would ONLY see in a pug, and even more make such ignorant statements.
    Or a big chunk of Discipline Priests, including both recruits and ones I have run with have fallen into this style of meter spamming Power Word: Shield, despite 25 man content not truly catering to that. My own has wavered on whether it's worth it or not, and I can't seem to convince him that it's not when others are "having success" doing it.

    Here's a clue, the Disc and Holy tree BOTH are strong, viable specs in current content.
    Huzzah. Case in point of half the thread, bravo. If you'd stopped here, I might've actually respected your response.
    Discipline FACILITATES the other healers better, allowing longer reaction times.
    Or here.
    Disc has a cycle, which is not bubble spam, this cycle is there to enable the other healers to do their job.
    Or even here. Yes. My point lately was people expect Discipline to Bubble Spam, because some fucked up insubstantial meter says its excruciatingly effective healing. That's not the tree's strengths, and that's doing nothing for your group.

    Or If you are too narrow and blind and are so affixed on your meter results, which you clearly are as every argument you made related back to the meters.
    You seem to have missed the point that I"m not caring about the meters, I'm caring about the people who are spamming to try and top them. There is a big difference, but of course I'm the one who's narrow and blind. Alright, bring it on.

    Making absolutely unfounded statements like "A shielded target still has to be healed" just works you into the ground and shows you have absolutely no real understanding on the current healing meta.
    Absolutely, if you say so it must be true. If someone's soaking 0-1 Blight in Festergut, and they get that disorient effect, no shield is going to save them. But you can spam it on 25 people because it looks nicer, that doesn't save the person that you left behind just because your shields are bigger.
    Disc are brought FOR the other healers, to benefit those healers.
    I pointed that out, and compared it to bringing Shadowpriests to benefit your casters in TBC (it was healers first, ranged DPS later on when your healers could sustain their mana pool).

    You arguing that holy does anything better than disc is just flawed.
    My argument was that shield spam is absolutely fucking terrible (and it is), and that as far as single target healing goes, Discipline has Penance which is stupidly awesome, but outside of Penance cooldowns it falls behind just as fast as Holy does. I might suggest you learn to read, instead of just skimming.

    Holy priests that take B&S are wasting talents. Tell your DPS to learn to strafe for 2 seconds to the left and your talent points are officially completely wasted.
    'kay, if I have to tell my DPS that utility talents are useless (so is Juggernaut by the way), you have to tell your entire server Discipline Priests are useless because their entire spec is built around utility. Here, you go first.

    Holy is a strong spec, it has it's place
    Absolutely.
    but it's not comparable to discipline
    Which has its place as well.
    and it doesn't take any more of less skill to play.
    To play a Discipline Priest well? No, it doesn't, you're right. It takes a tremendously low skill level to sit there and spam shields, and attempt to convince everyone else that they are 100% effective. Which is again, my point. This topic was over, you should've quit while you're ahead.

    Want to know why? It's because mommy was right back in the 5th grade, you don't compare apples to oranges, you discuss how they taste together, and the many awesome flavours therein.
    You didn't catch onto that until 5th grade? Must be slow, because I remembered that in Kindergarten.

    Stop posting as if you are the priest sage from your unbelievably high saddle, the pugs you play in are not real raids, or with real raiders. Stop taking bad examples from them and using them in arguments with no basis.
    Whoever said I PuG? And I do use the examples because that's what they are. I've seen a lot of advice and progress on this forum (and others) seeping into playstyles on my server, and even in my own group's runs.

    Forgive me for obviously not wasting my 10 attempts on Putrecide until we had a full night to do nothing but just him. Because that so must obviously mean I PuG, with fake raids and fake raiders. Obviously. Go finger yourself with a New Moon poster. At least then in the comfort of your own room you won't be bothering anyone else, nor will anyone else see how retarded you are.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  19. #59

    Re: Priest holy spec

    You seem quite quote happy.

    I'll save you the embarrassment of quoting the ENTIRE THREAD where you constantly compared individual abilities of both trees to show how holy is better, which is what i was getting at in my post, which you again, completely missed but you did post a great big fat wall of nothin!

    Your personal attacks aside, your view is still wrong, speccing into talents like B&S because your DPS is slow at reacting is STILL wrong, and disc and holy are still just as awesome as each other.

    What's funny is you continue going on about how disc priests spam shields, and how your guild is pathetic as it obviously has 0 quality control for recruits, or internal members as it allows a priest in your raid to be get carried. Why funny you ask? Because I never said a thing about it being ok, or that it was ok, or that is it, or ever will be ok to spam shields and consider yourself useful.

    Edit: Nice btw hitting me up about my postcount, that really shows your intelligence and insight about the given topic!

  20. #60

    Re: Priest holy spec

    It's odd that you're seeing a lot of terrible disc priests who do nothing but spam shields because I have to say I have the opposite problem. When I'm pugging on my alts the wretched disc priests I see seem to have some terrible fear of the shield button - presumably because they're worried that the RLer won't notice absorbs. Or perhaps they don't understand how rapture's ICD is abusable and worry they'll oom. I beg and plead them to be a bit more bubble happy on most encounters.

    My attitude is that if there's nothing better to do with my GCD then I should shield somebody, just as playing Holy I'd hot somebody. I generally start with the healers because we have the lowest HP pools, and knowing you have that health buffer can be the difference between getting off a heal to save the tank, and jumping out of the newly spawned fire immediately to save yourself and thereby losing him.

    I think the issue that you're seeing Kel isn't with shield spam being bad per se, or even that bad disc priests use it too much, just that it can have bad synergy with you - and that the bad disc priests aren't correcting for that bad synergy because they're not aware of it or don't think it matters.

    Valks is clearly a special case where that bad synergy is extreme, but the rest of ToC seems quite spam friendly. Shields are excellent on Faction champs, I have no reason not to shield all and sundry on Jaraxus or Beasts. Anub is a bit more complicated, but shields there vary from good to excellent, though obviously one wants to leave the kiters free for B&S if available during submerge.

    So far in ICC I'm liking a shield rich mix on Marrowgar, Deathwhisper and the lolfest that is the airship combat. Would you have issues to shield spam in those encounters too? I'm using shield spam to mean that >50% of my output is shields.

    This thread has some interesting ideas in it, it's just a shame that we appear to have a acquired a new priest forum Troll. And areohvees had only just left! Oh well - perhaps if we ignore it, it will go away.

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