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  1. #21

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Regarding the crit cap, I don't believe this to be the case

    I've been running icc almost everytime with an arcane mage, I have 22% (ish) crit chance, add focus magic for 25%

    On boss fights I've been doing my rotation for 5 stacks of shadow weaving and waiting just a wee bit longer for arcane empowerment, then procc inner focus with nevermelting ice crystal to boost crit by 45% then applying swp

    As far as I can tell the crit is the 'intended' 70% rate as the mage gets the focus magic benefit almost all the time, but atm we haven't had enough tests.

  2. #22

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    There is no crit cap.

    At least no hard one.
    Well there is a hard crit cap, it's 100%, if you get over 100% buffed crit rating, you will get no further benefit from crit.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by daenerys
    Well there is a hard crit cap, it's 100%, if you get over 100% buffed crit rating, you will get no further benefit from crit.
    a) Well, duh!
    b) You do get a little benefit from a few more percent than 100% because bosses are 3 levels higher and therefore your critchance against them is a little lower than what you paperdoll displays.
    c) There may be a debuff or whatever boss mechanic that lowers crit
    d) Saying 100% is a hard cap is like saying doing 100% damage to a boss is a hard cap. To repeat myself, well, duh!
    I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite signature on the forum.

  4. #24

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    You can't reach 100% crit via gear anyway, it is silly to discuss the cap.
    100% is hard cap for casters. Melee suffer penalty. I haven't read or seen anything about caster crit being penalized for bosses, but I might be wrong.
    What boss mechanic lowers crit? I haven't seen any. Every boss partially resists damage if caster is hit capped. You have a source?

    As for calculations:

    I have 21.71% crit from gear / int.
    Potion of Wild Magic is 4.36%.
    Nevermelting Ice Crystal on use effect is 20.04% crit.
    Mind Melt is 6%.

    From these 4 you can lock down SW:P to over 50% crit chance for SW:P. I haven't taken into account possible Focus Magic / Scorch-effects (don't even know if they apply into this calculation) and boomkin aura.

    It also seems useless to try and go over 50% crit chance (I'm unsure about exact mathematics but the step from 50 -> 60 percent is a lot less dps than 40 -> 50 percent when WoW's RNG is taken into account).

    On boss fights where I'm 100% sure I won't have SW:P falling off which is nearly all ICC bosses so far Nevermelting Ice Crystal simply owns. I've had SW:P critting for over 50% according to recount which is substantial DPS boost from the times where it was critting only 30ish percent.

  5. #25

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Wrong

    Crit chance in forms of buffs and debuffs persists through the MF refresh, u can test this with the H PoS trinket which I can confirm carrys through for the entire duration.
    thnx for clearing this up for me i can admit when im wrong

  6. #26

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Tested it on the dummy:

    swain + mf spamming to keep it refreshed.
    50 ticks of swain - 40% crit

    reset, pop nevermelting ice crystal, swain + mf spamming to keep it refreshed.
    50 ticks of swain - 60% crit

    Havn't tried with a wild magic pot, gonna do that tonight.

    It works, and its awesome :-)

  7. #27

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by syanid
    I have 21.71% crit from gear / int.
    Potion of Wild Magic is 4.36%.
    Nevermelting Ice Crystal on use effect is 20.04% crit.
    Mind Melt is 6%.

    From these 4 you can lock down SW:P to over 50% crit chance for SW:P. I haven't taken into account possible Focus Magic / Scorch-effects (don't even know if they apply into this calculation) and boomkin aura.
    Is your gear a little lacking at all ? I'm running with 27% crit chance in current gear, with:
    - 6% dot crit chance from mind melt
    - 5% from 2 set bonus
    Then in a raid environment:
    - 5% moonkin/elemental shaman buff
    - 3% totem of wrath/heart of the crusader
    - 5% scorch debuff

    That alone, raid buffed, is 51% crit chance on SWP.
    With, like you say, an extra 4% from wild magic pulling it up to 55% crit, the extra 20% (I'm gonna value it a little lower at 15% as that's how it's been for me so far) pulls SWP up to about 70% crit chance if I manage to keep it up, which is pretty impressive.

  8. #28

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    I logged out in my holy gear so I had the wrong armory data, I have 26% crit from gear :>

    But yes, as you said - SW:P can do a nice chunk of our damage if the player has the trinket.

  9. #29

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud
    There is no crit cap.

    At least no hard one.
    Wrong again... however spriests never reach it due to our mechanics... feral druids and mages on the other hand were reaching the crit cap in late Uld gear and certainly run at the crit cap in decent current gear.

    Crit cap is more relevent to melee white damage due to how the melee combat table works but it's not really relevant to us. In any case, haste is a far better scaling stat and you shouldn't be gemming or itemising for heavy crit anyways. Haste is a linear scaling stat whereas crit has a type of diminishing return in that the % of DPS increase from 1% crit to 2% crit is greater than at say 20% to 21%...

    It all gets rather technical so just take my word for it.

  10. #30

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Wrong again... however spriests never reach it due to our mechanics... feral druids and mages on the other hand were reaching the crit cap in late Uld gear and certainly run at the crit cap in decent current gear.
    What are the mechanics for caster's crit cap? Like how melee is dependent on avoided attacks(hit and expertise), and 2 constants(4.8?% crit conversion and 24% glancing).

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord AetherMcLoud's Avatar
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    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Wrong again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Worshaka
    Crit cap is more relevent to melee white damage due to how the melee combat table works but it's not really relevant to us. In any case, haste is a far better scaling stat and you shouldn't be gemming or itemising for heavy crit anyways. Haste is a linear scaling stat whereas crit has a type of diminishing return in that the % of DPS increase from 1% crit to 2% crit is greater than at say 20% to 21%...

    It all gets rather technical so just take my word for it.
    Crit cap is ONLY relevant to melee (see http://www.wowwiki.com/Critical_strike#Crit_Cap) and completely irrelevant to spellcasters. Why? Because melee rolls to hit and to crit (and parry, and blabla) with 1 single roll, while casters roll to hit and crit separately (see http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit#The...cal_Hit_chance).

    Oh, and I'm all for getting technical and rather against taking someones word for it.
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  12. #32

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon
    That's why I love Nevermelting Ice Crystal. On a nice easy fight like Onyxia, you can keep the extra 20% crit on the entire fight.
    so true so true....

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  13. #33

    Re: Mind Flay Refreshing SW: Pain question

    shadowpriest.com is the page for a reason, have a look right here -> viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23642
    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
    I hope shadowfiend will still be able to do damage in 3.1., it's my second "nuke" button next to Inner Focus!

    Leap of faith:
    Good news everyone, we can now heal stupidity!
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