icc 1h melee itemisation

[Omanley]

I think im not the only one to realise that icc 1h weapon itemisation is kinda messed at the moment.

im enhancement shaman and my concern is:

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50411
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50412
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50035
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50184

these are all 1h melee dps weapon choices of 25man content ( daggers and heroic versions excluded )

as i ( shaman ) cannot wield swords, and the axe is fast, im stuck at two fist weapons mainhand/offhand only.

i think it would be nice to change bloodvenom blade to fast, and scourgebourbe waraxe to slow.

impact on different classes:

hunters: none, they use both 1h axes/swords as dps sticks anyway and couldn´t care less about speed
combat-rogues: none really. an axe/swords rogue would wield scourgeborne/bloodvenom instead ofbloodvenom/scourgeborne as a result
unholy dk´s: same as rogue
frost dk´s: they would have to go for scourgeborne 2 times instead of bloodvenom. but both drop from bosses of the first wing and fairly easy to go for. also, it´s still an early stage of time, so it wouldn´t hurt them so much. also, frost dw dps dk´s are pretty rare, whereas enhancement is very common.

enhancement shaman: scourgeborne will become our third desireable 1h weapon from 25 man content ( best looking i might add ) and the first one to be weilded in either hand.

your thoughts?

[alt-ithist]

havent played frost DK in awhile so i might be off... but why would one pick weapon speed 1.50 x2 as a frost DK?

[Relina]

All I know is that axe has dropped every single week from gunship and we can't even get people to take it as offspec it just gets sharded. I think last week we had a hunter who decided that if its going to continue to drop he'll just take it and get the next one too and see how it stacks up. But 1.5 speed is entirely too fast for anybody besides a rogue is what I hear.

[eeva]

I would be happy with those two fist weapons. I like using Fist weapons.

[Deamoneyes]

havent played frost DK in awhile so i might be off... but why would one pick weapon speed 1.50 x2 as a frost DK?

they shouldnt at all, theres a 251 1h axe thats slow that they could stack 2 off-- but really the bloodvenom is what the DW frosts wants

anyways ive just briefly checked the shaman itemization and from what i remember the fists was BiS for you, yea the itemization sucks from your perspective, but its only rogues and shamans that can use them and from what i remember shamans doesnt have a weapon specialization; may i ask why the fists are bad for you hm? cause its not 1h but OH, MH?

adding to it from a encha shamans perspective the scourgeborn should be unattractive as hell due to its 1.5 speed

[Nurvus]

Is ArP attractive to Enhance Shamans?
- Combat Rogue - they use Slow mainhand, and fast offhand, with ArP, that means Axe & Sword.
- DKs wield 2 slow weapons with ArP, that means 2x Sword (in your suggestion, 2x Axe).
- Enhancement Shamans need 2x slow without ArP.

As a result, you want:
- To keep rogues aiming at 2 specific items, 1 Sword and 1 Axe.
- To keep DKs aiming at grabbing 2 of the same specific item (in your suggestion 2x Axe) that Rogues already compete for.
- To keep Shamans (wich is just a spec like Frost and Combat) having access to 2 specific items (with no competition) as well as getting a slice off the Main Hand weapon cake (Axe in your suggestion) DKs and Rogues already compete for.

I call that Greed.

Furthermore, we only have 7 bosses so far.

PS: I play Enhancement Shaman. I don't play Combat Rogue. I don't DW as DK.

[Shiira]

You shouldn't have a lot of competition from dks. The majority are raiding as unholy right now and that isn't likely to change, especially not with an enhancement shaman in the raid providing overlapping buffs.

[Simonzi]

I don't play an Enh shaman, but isn't ArP just about the worst DPS stat for Enh shaman, because most of their damage comes from magic damage?

[Wezagred]

I don't play an Enh shaman, but isn't ArP just about the worst DPS stat for Enh shaman, because most of their damage comes from magic damage?

Easy now, about 20-40% is from spelldmg. ArP isn't bad, it is just not as good as for example, AP or haste.

[Omanley]

i think it would be nice to change bloodvenom blade to fast, and scourgebourbe waraxe to slow.

qouting myself. sry, it seems some got my post the wrong way.

frost dk´s: they would have to go for scourgeborne 2 times instead of bloodvenom. but both drop from bosses of the first wing and fairly easy to go for. also, it´s still an early stage of time, so it wouldn´t hurt them so much. also, frost dw dps dk´s are pretty rare, whereas enhancement is very common.

WOULD blizzard change weapons speeds inbetween http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50412 and
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50411, frost dk´s WOULD prefer the axes instead.

oh, and i just realized that: orc dk´s would prefer 2 axes over 2 swords

But 1.5 speed is entirely too fast for anybody besides a rogue is what I hear.

it can also be used by unholy dk´s. and as both dk´s/rogues can use swords, whereas shaman cannot, it would be much smarted having those axes slow, and swords fast.

I would be happy with those two fist weapons. I like using Fist weapons.

i would be happy as well. the point is: they
a) are limited to mh/oh only, so you have to have the luck of getting both, with scourgeborne being slow we could get either one and weild the axe in the other hand.
b) they drop only in the later content ( mh from festergut, reachable, but still, 2nd wing and, offhand, from bloodprinces (3rd wing )

Is ArP attractive to Enhance Shamans?

no it´s not, but the same goes for mutilate, and there are daggers with ArP, amirite?

you don´t pass on a weapon simply because of the ArP. would we do that, we could forget about 2/3 weapons dropping from 10man.

As a result, you want:
- To keep rogues aiming at 2 specific items, 1 Sword and 1 Axe.
- To keep DKs aiming at grabbing 2 of the same specific item (in your suggestion 2x Axe) that Rogues already compete for.
- To keep Shamans (wich is just a spec like Frost and Combat) having access to 2 specific items (with no competition) as well as getting a slice off the Main Hand weapon cake (Axe in your suggestion) DKs and Rogues already compete for.

three words: WHAT THE HELL?!

rogues aren´t limited to axe/swords in combat, they could just as well go for fist dagger instead. which ( and im sure you haven´t even wasted even one thought about that ) would bring our only mh option ( which you seem to consider shaman only ) in direct danger of being snatched away. also, keeping it as is would also be

To keep rogues aiming at 2 specific items, 1 Sword and 1 Axe.

only difference would be the sword in mainhand, axe in offhand, srsly, where´s the difference?

unholy dk´s do not care about offhandspeed. this would mean that a sword/axe dk would switch to axe/sword instead. takes 1 second to switch the weapons places and 1 minute to port to dk base changing runes.

frost dk´s are the only ones affected. they would have to go for two axes instead of two swords. their amount of weapons to chose from wouldn´t change in the least.

To keep Shamans (wich is just a spec like Frost and Combat) having access to 2 specific items (with no competition) as well as getting a slice off the Main Hand weapon cake (Axe in your suggestion) DKs and Rogues already compete for.

gratz to fail. shamans are a class, no spec. im sure you mean enhancement, but still. enhancement have no option going 2h. like other dk tree´s have. enhancement has no option changing to another melee tree, like dk´s and rogues have. we´re limited to onehanded weapons, and slow ones at that. having 2/3 axes ( which originally weren´t even meant to be weilded by rogues ) fast, only one slow mace dropping ( 10man ) and half of the slow weapons having ArP on it, how can you critize me.

most of the rogues arent even combat, they are mutilate.

I call that Greed.

I call what you do trolling.

PS: I play Combat Rogue/DW DK. I don't play Enhancement Shaman. I don't have any clue.

fixed that for you.

please, to those reading my first post, read it carefully, and think it through

[Nighty]

theres something wrong in your head. unholy dks dont use one handed weapons. the use two handers. dual wield unholy has been dead for a long time if i remember correctly

[Omanley]

from what i know, there are both 2h and dw unholy´s, with the unholy´s going for slow/doesn´t matter.

but im no expert for deathknights. if it´s really like that, just pretent i haven´t typed it. doesn´t change the validness of my thread/point.

[Shiira]

from what i know, there are both 2h and dw unholy´s, with the unholy´s going for slow/doesn´t matter.

but im no expert for deathknights. if it´s really like that, just pretent i haven´t typed it. doesn´t change the validness of my thread/point.

Dual wield unholy is dead as of 3.3.

[Dessan]

havent played frost DK in awhile so i might be off... but why would one pick weapon speed 1.50 x2 as a frost DK?

Good reading skills

[evan_s]

Blizzard has said that frost is the only tree they are interested in keeping dual wield viable for DKs. They originally intended to have all trees have the option but realized it was just too complicated.

As far as Armor pen goes it isn't a great stat for shaman but it is not useless either. Haste or straight attack power sims out better at these gear levels but it's almost never a choice of attack power or haste or arp. Arp actually ends up simming out to about the same value as hit once you are over the spell hit cap. Yeah we don't try to stack it and would probably itemize differently if we were making pieces ourself but it isn't that bad.

[Yosef1015]

For a frost DK you need slow weapons fast weapons are out of the question for a frost dk. although i dont really know what an enhance shammy should use but ive seen on websites that you want slow weapons in both hands. I would definitely go for the 2 fist weapons.

[Omanley]

yeah. frost dk´s pretty much need the same type of weapons as enhancement shaman do. only difference is enh can´t weild swords, frost cant use fists.

means frost are pretty much as screwed in terms of weapons to chose from. comes down to the saurfang sword.

propably instead of changing the weapon speed of the sword, blizz should move the slow axe from 10man to 25man.

and yeah i will go for the fists, because i have no other options.

[Porte]

Good god you guys are dense. Op I agree with you and think you should probably post your idea on the suggestion forums.

[sh0k]

blizzard does not systematically itemize new gear to be optimally designed for all classes/specs, if any at all. blue posts have stated this many times, and thus your complaint there "some classes have better options than your particular class/spec in this tier of itemization" becomes irrelevant.

[Optomash]

Since hunters use arp alot of Enhancment shaman off pieces have arp on it. we just have to deal with it and use it. its the first stat we want bet it will do.

i use http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50787