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  1. #1
    Mechagnome whowherewhat?'s Avatar
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    Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    So I'm sitting at 823 haste rating before totems/procs. I've notice that during heroism, if my glove enchant is active (engineering haste enchant) my LB cast is very very near 1 sec. However, if EM is active during Heroism/Bloodlust, it dips below 1 sec. Does this mean I have to stop using EM during Heroism/Bloodlust? If I get more haste will I have to stop using my engineering enchant as well? Is there ever a point I need to stop stacking (not gemming) haste?

    Thank you oh wise forum readers for your advice...
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...arithos&n=Wave

  2. #2

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    To get the most DPS and get the most out of your haste procs use EM and your engi enchant outside of bloodlust/heroism.

  3. #3

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    a macro always works for using EM

  4. #4
    Mechagnome whowherewhat?'s Avatar
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    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust
    a macro always works for using EM
    Are you suggesting one that only casts it outside of Bloodlust/Hero? if so that would be very helpful to me. If its one that casts EM whenever its off CD, that could be detrimental (no controlling whether or not its cast inside or outside Heroism)

  5. #5

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    They are simply suggesting that if during BL/Heroism you are dipping below the 1sec mark that you should use it (or both) outside of that time frame to take full advantage of it thus increasing your overall dps.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome whowherewhat?'s Avatar
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    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    righto, thanks!

  7. #7

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Don't stack it even with gloves ...

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    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by ilialilov
    Don't stack it even with gloves ...
    Heroism+gloves+other passive haste things puts my LB at about 1.07 sec cast time, gloves+EM put it at like 1.37, whats the problem with stacking it with gloves?

  9. #9

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    It will benefit you more if you don't. Not far more ... but still

  10. #10
    Deleted

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by ilialilov
    It will benefit you more if you don't. Not far more ... but still
    Don't totally sure if I understand what you want to say, but...
    If he doesn't get below 1sec cast time with both active, then why shouldn't he use them together?

    It's the same reason you pressed EM while Bloodlust before it was changed. (when it still gave Crit)
    The more damage-increasing CDs you use at the same time, the more damage you'll do. (at least if you can use them to their full potential)

  11. #11

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    OK testing done with 1097 haste without totem ... casting time on lb 1.5 sec ... cast time with weekly cd 1.3sec. Cast time with bloodlust and weekly cd 1 sec. Cast time only with BL 1.15 sec. That is why you shouldn't stack haste cds. Well unless you give a valid reason why i should pop EM and drop my cast time with 0.15 sec when i can wait till BL is finished and reduce it with 0.2 sec

  12. #12

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    GCD issues with alot of haste and BL/heroism, hittin the GCD is dps loss.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome whowherewhat?'s Avatar
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    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by ilialilov
    OK testing done with 1097 haste without totem ... casting time on lb 1.5 sec ... cast time with weekly cd 1.3sec. Cast time with bloodlust and weekly cd 1 sec. Cast time only with BL 1.15 sec. That is why you shouldn't stack haste cds. Well unless you give a valid reason why i should pop EM and drop my cast time with 0.15 sec when i can wait till BL is finished and reduce it with 0.2 sec
    I already stated earlier that when I use my engineering CD during Heroism it doesn't go below 1 second. Only with EM. So yes, from now on I'm not gonna use EM+Heroism but I'm definitely going to use my engineering CD

  14. #14
    Deleted

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by ilialilov
    OK testing done with 1097 haste without totem ... casting time on lb 1.5 sec ... cast time with weekly cd 1.3sec. Cast time with bloodlust and weekly cd 1 sec. Cast time only with BL 1.15 sec. That is why you shouldn't stack haste cds. Well unless you give a valid reason why i should pop EM and drop my cast time with 0.15 sec when i can wait till BL is finished and reduce it with 0.2 sec
    Ah, now I see where you're wrong...
    You only look at the cast time as a number, not on the percentages.
    So, let's try...
    With both, BL and EM active, you'll have a 1sec LB. EM will last 15sec, so you'll do 15 LBs while both are active and 21.74 LBs for the remaining duration of BL only. Now we have to add the LBs casted in additional 15sec, so we can match the 55sec of seperated BL and EM, which would equal to 10 LBs.
    So with stacked EM and BL, you'll have casted 46.74 LBs.
    Now if we seperate them, then you'll have 40sec BL and then 15sec EM.
    In the 40sec of BL, you'll cast 34.78 LBs, while in the 15sec of EM, you'll cast 11.54 LBs.
    This adds up to 46.32 LBs.

    What this shows is, that the difference between stacking haste and not seperating it is in that case rather low, but there is one, which shows that stacking is slightly better.

  15. #15

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    That is actually a valid point ... but you don't take into consideration that lava burst is used too and it will be under 1 sec cast for sure. And if you move during EM + BL you loose far more dps than moving the same time during only BL or only EM

    Edit: too tired to do the math
    Here are some numbers
    no EM no BL
    1.12
    EM only
    0.977
    EM + BL
    0.752
    BL only
    0.865

  16. #16

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by DaDimi
    Ah, now I see where you're wrong...
    You only look at the cast time as a number, not on the percentages.
    So, let's try...
    With both, BL and EM active, you'll have a 1sec LB. EM will last 15sec, so you'll do 15 LBs while both are active and 21.74 LBs for the remaining duration of BL only. Now we have to add the LBs casted in additional 15sec, so we can match the 55sec of seperated BL and EM, which would equal to 10 LBs.
    So with stacked EM and BL, you'll have casted 46.74 LBs.
    Now if we seperate them, then you'll have 40sec BL and then 15sec EM.
    In the 40sec of BL, you'll cast 34.78 LBs, while in the 15sec of EM, you'll cast 11.54 LBs.
    This adds up to 46.32 LBs.

    What this shows is, that the difference between stacking haste and not seperating it is in that case rather low, but there is one, which shows that stacking is slightly better.

    ^he's right u know.

    BTW, with our new t10 2p bonus, the cd on EM is gona be very low, somewhere around 1-1.5 mins depending on haste. if u pop BL at begining of fight, u might as well pop EM cause with the 1sec bolts ur EM will be back up about 30 secs after it wears off. Also, due to the new nature of the 2p bonus, EM will become more of a priority item than something u save for BL, so it doesn't matter when u proc it, just that it is always on cd all the time

  17. #17
    Deleted

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphrodos

    ^he's right u know.

    BTW, with our new t10 2p bonus, the cd on EM is gona be very low, somewhere around 1-1.5 mins depending on haste. if u pop BL at begining of fight, u might as well pop EM cause with the 1sec bolts ur EM will be back up about 30 secs after it wears off. Also, due to the new nature of the 2p bonus, EM will become more of a priority item than something u save for BL, so it doesn't matter when u proc it, just that it is always on cd all the time
    Tbh, ilialilov is right, too.
    In theory you should always get higher DPS by stacking CDs, at least when they all benefit you to their fullest.
    This is not the case with our Haste-CDs...
    It's just like he wrote.
    If you factor in LvB, then you'll see that using a haste-CD outside of BL yields more LvB/CL-DPS.
    Reason is:
    If you use both, BL and a CD in BL, then for those 40 seconds, LvB/CL will be under GCD.
    If you use the CD AFTER BL, then LvB will be under GCd for the duration of BL and then for the duration of your CD.
    The thing is, that in the first example, you'd not have the duration of the CD after BL, so your LvB/CL after BL will not be near the GCD.

    Next thing about that is: It totally depends on situation, gear and bossfight.
    For some fights a high value of haste is way better than a high value of crit - meaning that you'll have more haste, which leads to lower CL/LvB-cast times, which leads to no benefit from haste. Problem is, that in those extreme cases (1270 haste and more, probably a bit less, too) casting BL + CD will already bring LB below GCD. So you'll automatically want to use your Haste-CDs one after the other, or rather NOT while BL is active. (15% haste from CD1 and 15% haste from CD2 show the results I mentioned in my older post, again if your LB doesn't go below GCD)

    If you have less haste, i.e. for fights with a lot of movement, (and it helps very much to have a demo lock so you can put down Searing totems, which does not scale with haste, only with crit and SP) then you'll want more crit and less haste (or rather the crit > haste - point is not that late) which makes stacking CDs worse than in ideal situations, again.


    It's all rather complicated and very, VERY situational...

  18. #18

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Agree

    If doing BL alone brings your bolts very close to 1 sec(within .5 id say), no point to pop EM til after.

    However, with the new mechanic behind the T10 2P, that EM will nearly always be on cooldown, no saving it. If you pop EM at begining of BL just to make LBs hit 1 sec, the cd is gona be up only 20-30secsish after BL is done, and all u will have lost is some damage from a shorter LvB, but u will have gotten that cd rolling faster with 1 sec bolts.

    Or even better yet, just pop EM, wait til its done, then pop BL, so it plays off of your CD well and doesn't mess with the GCD of LvB

    BTW, i believe when LB hits 1 sec, Chain goes out of your rotation. LB hits harder, and essentially has the same GCD as CL, making CL no longer viable due to its pointless shorter CD and smaller damage.

  19. #19

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphrodos

    BTW, i believe when LB hits 1 sec, Chain goes out of your rotation. LB hits harder, and essentially has the same GCD as CL, making CL no longer viable due to its pointless shorter CD and smaller damage.
    yeh with em+bl, its like 1.05 lb, so cl is not worth using, lb hits harder, its glyphed for 4% more damage, ur not gonna gain enuf outta cl especially when its gonna be like 0.75 cast time or something really low. and the electrical overload proc also hits harder with lb than cl, lb uses alot less mana if thats even an issue

  20. #20

    Re: Shamans of a certain haste level [Ele]...

    Yep. Chain lighting is not good during BL well unless 3 targets are present ofc. But you still continue to press lava burst cause it just hits harder .

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