Warbringer Does Not Need a Nerf, This Is Why...

[ProteinOrcWarrior]

The problem with the PvP side of Warbringer is that when you consider prot warrior versus mage (just as an example), there was nothing a mage could do to a well versed warrior. The warrior carries a lot of stuns, silences, and then any attempt to root him is broken by multiple abilities.

A warrior can not use warbringer to break out of snares if their target is in the dead zone. Any decent arena player should know that. Therefore a smart mage could easily beat a prot warrior.


Let's compare snare breaks to other tanks:


If a DK of any spec is stuck in a root, he can deathgrip, chains of ice. (25 sec CD with PVP spec)

If a Druid of any spec is stuck in a root, he can powershift out. (No CD)

If a Paladin of any spec is stuck in a root, he can use hand of freedom. (25 sec CD)

If a Warrior of ONLY the PROT SPEC is stuck in a root, they can use warbringer (Can use charge/intercept to escape (if target is 8-35 yards away) on average once every 15 seconds)



If warbringer is nerfed all warrior specs will be forced to sit in the snare and use spell reflect, or shield block (if still being attacked by ranged). Warriors will have NO offense when snared.

If nerfed. It would make more sense for the snare breaking aspect of warbringer to have a cooldown in itself, not remove the snare breaking completely.

[Erobinia]

If a prot warrior uses charge to break snares or roots, he still gains rage.

If he uses intervene or intercept, it costs rage.

I don't fully get why the change is applied to intercept, but taking it off of charge is perfectly reasonable. If a core pally talent made Hand of Freedom return mana instead of costing mana, we'd think that was unreasonable too.

[Phation]

I love the argument you're making for prot warrior being one myself but you're forgetting a few things. First of all pallies can obviously bubble out of anything, not just roots or snares. Also DK's have Icebound Fortitude to break stuns. Lastly, fury warrior have Heroic Fury but that being said, Fury isn't a very popular PvP spec though it will be after the Warbringer nerf. This nerf isn't anything more than Blizzard giving the crying welfare epic teams what they want.

[Kaleid]

I love the argument you're making for prot warrior being one myself but you're forgetting a few things. First of all pallies can obviously bubble out of anything, not just roots or snares. Also DK's have Icebound Fortitude to break stuns. Lastly, fury warrior have Heroic Fury but that being said, Fury isn't a very popular PvP spec though it will be after the Warbringer nerf. This nerf isn't anything more than Blizzard giving the crying welfare epic teams what they want.

IBF prevents stuns.

[Phation]

IBF prevents stuns.

It's still more than a prot warrior has. But my mistake on that regardless.

[Clarkis2001]

Why don't we give every class the same abilities so we're all equal? =p

This change is not against just one spec or class. Prot Warriors can shut down pretty much all casters as well as Hunters. Are PvP Prot Warriors common? No. Does that mean the ones that exist should make fighting these classes pretty much a joke? No.

Destro Warlocks had less then a day where Conflagrate did 100% of Immolate's damage. This was really OP to some classes yet didn't hurt others nearly as bad. Over time the spell has been changed to where the crits are about 50% of what they used to be. I play a Destro Warlock and know these changes were needed.

Was it because every Warlock was rolling this? No. Most were, and still are, Affliction. But it wasn't right to have some classes (Hunters for example) be a joke. This is a similar change in my mind. You won't be snared long and if you really are in a pinch because the target is standing in the dead zone then target his teammate and then get back on him. =D

[Nabla]

A warrior can not use warbringer to break out of snares if their target is in the dead zone. Any decent arena player should know that. Therefore a smart mage could easily beat a prot warrior.

This is why this post is stupid. So you think that the fact that every player has to stay in the deadzone of the prot warrior in order to prevent him from breaking out is acceptable ? Even worst he can always intervene one of his friend and charge back.
Nerf is needed, get over it.

[sicness]

The thing I find absolutely stupid about this whole nerf is their argument for it. Their argument of frost mages having no chance against a prot warrior is why they made this change. First of all, I thought we were balancing this game around 3v3 not 1v1 so why the hell is a 1v1 scenario the reason of this talent change? Secondly, a frost mage does the exact opposite to any warrior who isn't prot, so if they nerf this now are they going to nerf frost mages after they do so since now frost mages will be more viable against prot while still destroying any other type of warrior? This change is completely idiotic.

[Phation]

The thing I find absolutely stupid about this whole nerf is their argument for it. Their argument of frost mages having no chance against a prot warrior is why they made this change. First of all, I thought we were balancing this game around 3v3 not 1v1 so why the hell is a 1v1 scenario the reason of this talent change? Secondly, a frost mage does the exact opposite to any warrior who isn't prot, so if they nerf this now are they going to nerf frost mages after they do so since now frost mages will be more viable against prot while still destroying any other type of warrior? This change is completely idiotic.

I think I love you. This is exactly it, you're making a change based on ONE class complaining. I've yet to hear from a hunter or Balance Druid on this, or an Elemental Shammy. Only things I've heard from are frost mages and a warlock not clear on the concept of Warlock PvP. Could we hear from a rogue about how this effects him? I'd like that, maybe a Feral Druid? Ret Pally? DK? Anyone other than a mage have an opinion?

[Marvdatboi]

Nerf is good? yes.

[Xacez]

How about Entangling Roots, Curse of Exhaustion, Aftermath, Crippling Poison, Wing Clip, Frost Trap, Earthbind Totem, Earthgrab and Chains of Ice all being broken by three individual abilities, having a respective cooldown of 15, 30 and 30 seconds

[Larivas]

Why would a melee class care at all about this nerf? Theres no reason to hear from a ret pally, feral druid, rogue, etc, they will be in your melee range anyway.

[Phation]

How about Entangling Roots, Curse of Exhaustion, Aftermath, Crippling Poison, Wing Clip, Frost Trap, Earthbind Totem, Earthgrab and Chains of Ice all being broken by three individual abilities, having a respective cooldown of 15, 30 and 30 seconds

It doesn't clear CoE, the only reason it removes Earthbind is because it gets us out of the range of effect usually, if we stay inside it it gets re-applied. Check your facts.

[brutnus]

I would think that since this ability has been in the game since the launch of WOTLK and it is just now getting balanced then it isn't a nerf but a balancing.

Its not the end of the world. You can still silence, Stun, Stun, Fear, Silence, and Charge/int stun.

plus we still have Last stand and Shield wall. Oww we can Spell reflect 2.

If this is what mages want balanced. Let them have it.

[Lao_tzu]

Hmm, I don't think the warbringer nerfs are the answer any decent healer that can dispell the various snares would be able to keep the prot warrior moving and in combat, what was shown to be the problem in the orlando 3v3 matchs where Flexx jumped on his prot warrior was the massive combination of not only snare breaking but 12-20 seconds of CC, including charge, intercept, conc blow, shockwave. etc etc. not to mention the intim shout.

Not only are they hard to hold in one place, they generally put a team member out of action for a while when they get hold of them. then do massive damage in the process. I'm also pretty sure that if a prot warrior was the focus of an opppostion team he would be very easy to keep alive from a healers perspective.

not sure how you balance them, but all I can say is don't do it untill i've had a chance with my Teir ten gear in pvp

[sicness]

Hmm, I don't think the warbringer nerfs are the answer any decent healer that can dispell the various snares would be able to keep the prot warrior moving and in combat, what was shown to be the problem in the orlando 3v3 matchs where Flexx jumped on his prot warrior was the massive combination of not only snare breaking but 12-20 seconds of CC, including charge, intercept, conc blow, shockwave. etc etc. not to mention the intim shout.

Not only are they hard to hold in one place, they generally put a team member out of action for a while when they get hold of them. then do massive damage in the process. I'm also pretty sure that if a prot warrior was the focus of an opppostion team he would be very easy to keep alive from a healers perspective.

not sure how you balance them, but all I can say is don't do it untill i've had a chance with my Teir ten gear in pvp

My issue with them using a tournament as a basis for nerfing something (such as beast cleave now) is the fact that these teams purposely counter comp for a reason, because it works. So because counter comping works, and you play against other teams who stupidly don't change their comp it means that this class/team comp is overpowered? The stupidity of trying to defeat a team that is your counter comp with your standard comp that gets destroyed by it and then using that same basis for nerfs baffles me.

[Phation]

Hmm, I don't think the warbringer nerfs are the answer any decent healer that can dispell the various snares would be able to keep the prot warrior moving and in combat, what was shown to be the problem in the orlando 3v3 matchs where Flexx jumped on his prot warrior was the massive combination of not only snare breaking but 12-20 seconds of CC, including charge, intercept, conc blow, shockwave. etc etc. not to mention the intim shout.

Not only are they hard to hold in one place, they generally put a team member out of action for a while when they get hold of them. then do massive damage in the process. I'm also pretty sure that if a prot warrior was the focus of an opppostion team he would be very easy to keep alive from a healers perspective.

not sure how you balance them, but all I can say is don't do it untill i've had a chance with my Teir ten gear in pvp

That's the first time I've ever heard of prot damage being called massive but ok. The thing about prot warriors is they have two advantages over any other class in PvP, mobility and survivability. We can help our team out a great deal in those respects. My damage is marginal at best unless I get a good shield slam crit. The thing you have to look at is how do we stack up against other classes in the PvP system and the facts are that for the most part we don't, we can't touch the damage of a Mage, Rogue, Arms warrior or DK. We can't survive anywhere near as much as a prot pally. Really what Warbringer has done is make prot viable in arena, I say that's a good thing, means more tanks for your server. People can spike higher damage as prot by using the PvP gear or DPS gear but the thing is, those prot warrior are also fairly easy to kill.

[Lao_tzu]

Flexx managed to out DPS both the opposing DPS classes in one of the rounds I watched, mainly because the rogue couldn't move out of the stun/CC chain layed out by the prot warrior. was amazing to watch the rogue couldn't get out of it at all.

I can well imagine people will counter comp the prot or beast cleave as much as they can, expecially as people will jump on them as a new FOTM.

anyway im not an experianced PVP'er but im a half decent tank so i'll give prot pvp a whirl, they do look like fun.

in terms of seeing the pro's playing the beast cleave and the prot, CC-lockdown looked truely amazing and very hard to counter.

[seam]

Nerf is good? yes.

This.

It's actually a very smart nerf, hitting PvP and not PvE(Ok, so 5 mans may take a hit, but people complain about them being too easy, now they might be slightly harder, live with it).

[galindo]

Blizzard was saying that the change was made so that prot warriors could be controlled. This is complete bull, i play with a druid/hunter, and our strat against 90% of the teams is chain cc the healer with wyvern, trap, cyc, etc. we dps the clothy down and when the cc is off the healer i switch to it and put a stun lock on him while the hunter finishes the remaining health down. ppl are saying that this comp is faceroll, it take just as much coordination as a rmp, does less damage, but has more survivability, so why is it that ppl bitch about this....
it is because it is so underrepresented that you never face it enough to actually have practice on it. teams in the 1800-2200 never face them, i have faced 2 different teams of them, and they played it so poorly. if rmp's actually have time against them to learn how to counter they could easily roll it.