10 Things Wrong With Your Holy Pally's Armory

[Firecrest]

My last post has fallen off the first page, so I suppose it's time for the next. Below is a list of 10 mistakes I see Holy Pallies making based on their armory alone. There are things that aren't on this list (bad professions, Hit/Spirit gear, etc), this is just a list composed of the largest mistakes that I see the most often. They are listed in no particular order.

NOTE: There's a good chance I'm going to just start linking people to this thread and quoting numbers instead of repeating myself over and over and over. As such, I'd rather this didn't turn this into one of those hur hur list threads. I really don't want to see someone post a reply like "11) UR progression is suxors" and a bunch of people who feel the need to put up their own numbers after. If there's something glaring that you think is missing from this list, write up a paragraph of discussion about it. Like I said though, this list was not meant to be all inclusive. It's just meant to hit the most major and most often seen mistakes.

As always, anyone who has questions or is seeking personal advice can feel free to message me in game or through these forums.


TEN THINGS WRONG WITH YOUR HOLY PALLY'S ARMORY

1) You're specc'ed into Ret instead of Prot. The main benefit of the Ret tree for a Holy Pally is the massive amount of Crit it gives. However, Crit is one of our worst stats (tied with SP, IMO). On the other hand, even post "nerf", Divine Sac/Guardian is still very strong. And, in some ways, better than it was before. The actual amount absorbed has been reduced (and you can't use the godly Bubble Sac for infinite absorbs), however a clause was added that turns off the damage redirection ability when the Paladin reaches 20% health (the raidwide mini shield wall persists). This means that the ability can be used on its own CD rather than waiting for five minutes on Bubble. Just make sure it's not up during periods of significant simultaneous AoE raid damage. If all the damage is transferred over at the exact same time, you will die.

2) Wrong Shoulder/Helm enchant. SP/MP5 is correct. SP/Crit is not. In any straight comparison, MP5 is much better than Crit. MP5 supplies more than double the mana regen compared to Crit at a cost of throughput from actual crits. Given that regen is what Holy Pallies need most and throughput is what we need least, the choice is obvious.

3) Your trinkets are wrong. There is no excuse whatsoever not to have two very solid trinkets. Talisman of Resurgence is an easy badge purchase and Tears of the Vanquished is an easy farm from 5-man normal ToC. Every Holy Pally should start with these two and move up from there. Running with crap trinkets is completely unacceptable.

4) You are pushing the wrong stats. Either on purpose or through fault of drops, the stats that matter are low and the stats that suck are high. Our stat prioritization is Haste/MP5 > Haste/Crit >>> Crit/MP5 (where each ‘>’ is worth roughly 16 ilevels). This means that most, if not all, of your gear should have Haste. If you are struggling with when to upgrade and to what, read my post here about prioritization vs. ilevel. There is no hard and fast rule, but I have given some guidelines and examples that may be helpful.

5) Your gems are wrong. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond and lots and lots of Brilliant King's Amber. Anything else is wrong. If you can use a Luminious Ametrine and a Dazzling Eye of Zul to meet two socket bonuses, go ahead. Otherwise use a Nightmare Tear. A socket bonus that gives Int is usually worth getting as well. Also, be smart about your gemming. Don't get a +7 SP bonus when you can put that gem in a different spot and get +9 SP.

6) You're spending your badges incorrectly. Right now, this pertains specifically to Frost Badges. Holy Pallies should be purchasing the Tier Helm and the Tier Shoulders ahead of everything else. It doesn't matter that the Badge Cloak may be a bigger upgrade than the Tier Helm. Get the Helm. These two tier pieces will not be replaced until Cataclysm. That cloak, on the other hand, is like sixth in line behind a bunch of incoming Haste Cloaks that are going to be much more obtainable than they have been in the past.

7) Your unbuffed mana is crazy high. Yes, this is a thing that you're doing wrong. Int is great for us. But blindly stacking it is not. If you have 37k or more unbuffed mana, you are probably doing something wrong. Specifically, you are not running with one or more Solace of the Defeated trinkets. If you are able to reach these godly mana levels, you are more than capable of picking up a Solace. The itemization on this trinket is nearly twice what it should be. Meaning that it will provide significantly more mana return than any of the Int trinkets out there. (Please check the date of this post before responding to this point, thanks. For refrence, all that was available in ICC at the time was the first four bosses. -- The Management)

8) Wrong Libram. This can go two ways. If you are undergeared, averagegeared or slightlyoveraveragegeared you should be using Libram of Renewal. Anything else is wrong. If you are omgwtfovergeared, you should consider using Libram of Veracity, especially for easy content. The latter will become less and less true as (hopefully) difficult content is released and then true once again when your guild has ICC on farm.

9) You have not properly coordinated your spec with the rest of your raid. Obviously, I cannot tell if this is the case just by looking at Armory. But I try to point out situations where it may exist. The biggest one I see is Holy Pallies running with 3/3 Imp Devo Aura. The chances of you actually needing this are very slim. Resto Druids and Prot Pallies both provide the same healing bonus and it does not stack. You should also coordinate Imp BoW and Imp Conc Aura with your raid's other Holy Pally, if you have one.

10) You're using the wrong Glyphs. Required Major: Holy Light, Seal of Wisdom. Required Minor: LoH. Options for the third Major include Beacon, LoH, HS and FoL. There isn't really a "wrong" option in those - however, Beacon is probably the best and HS is probably the worst.


We'll round it off with one thing that doesn't matter:

1) Your gearscore. When I review someone's Armory I couldn't care less about the ilevel of the gear they are wearing. I am much more interested in how well they're working with what they've got. If you're doing it right in Naxx gear, you'll get higher marks from me than if you're doing it wrong in Heroic TotGC.

[Azyoulike]

Then there's the spec failings. I've run with two holydins recently that made me gasp. One hadn't specced JoTP, the other had skipped Enlightened Judgements. Naturally ofc neither judged ever.

[jeek]

this is a joke right

[darkwarrior42]

this is a joke right

Actually, it's a very solid list. If you disagree, I would love to see your reasoning (if you have any).

[Raiss]

7) Your unbuffed mana is crazy high. Yes, this is a thing that you're doing wrong. Int is great for us. But blindly stacking it is not. If you have 37k or more unbuffed mana, you are probably doing something wrong. Specifically, you are not running with one or more Solace of the Defeated trinkets. If you are able to reach these godly mana levels, you are more than capable of picking up a Solace. The itemization on this trinket is nearly twice what it should be. Meaning that it will provide significantly more mana return than any of the Int trinkets out there.

RNG is RNG. I run TOC and TOGC every week and I still don't have my solace. Today I finally saw one drop, but I didn't win the roll.

[Nullified]

RNG is RNG. I run TOC and TOGC every week and I still don't have my solace. Today I finally saw one drop, but I didn't win the roll.

And you're currently using Pandora's Plea which has more Int than Tears of the Vanquished but provides about half the mp5.

Also you're using Int enchants to bracers and to your weapon, not terrible but spell power comes out ahead in both cases.

[Raiss]

And you're currently using Pandora's Plea which has more Int than Tears of the Vanquished but provides about half the mp5.

Also you're using Int enchants to bracers and to your weapon, not terrible but spell power comes out ahead in both cases.

I'm really not worried about mp5 atm. The Pandora's Plea proc can be horrible, but when it procs together with my ring, I can get pretty strong sacred shields. You just need to know how to work it, its possible to always have a sacred shield with a buffed spellpower, considering the small ICD. But yes, I can't wait to have a heroic solace or heroic silverthing (or even a algalon trinket, but no-one wants to farm it anymore). Mostly for arenas, actually, so I could stop gemming int and focus more on spellpower. (wtb human racial with two mana regen trinkets)

And I'm still waiting someone to prove (math, theorycrafting) that the spellpower enchants are superior. The +30 int can be weaker and from oldcontent, but it will give me Spell Power, Mana, Mp5 and critical, while the Spellpower enchant would only give me pure spellpower. My priority is mana regen > pure spell power. Big sacred shields are nice, I know, but I can make a strong shield with procs (Pleas + Ring atm), no need for a weapon enchant. You might want to check this:
http://www.worldofraids.com/news/892...f-ensidia.html

[thoukaia]

And you're currently using Pandora's Plea which has more Int than Tears of the Vanquished but provides about half the mp5.

Also you're using Int enchants to bracers and to your weapon, not terrible but spell power comes out ahead in both cases.

Said the guy who specced 3/3 imp conc aura.

About paragraph #6: There's a *decent* piece of shoulders from marrowgar 25 that trade haste for mp5 + 1 socket, compared to T10. If you feel like your haste levels are high enough then get something else after your head.

Allow me to add:
11) Your gear is wrong, you have hit or spirit on them.

[apokteino]

You're right about choosing the T10 head and shoulders in order to get the 2pb. The difference between getting the shoulders vs chest, though, is roughly a difference of gaining 16 haste and losing 16 crit (going with the shoulders) or gaining 16 crit and losing 16 haste (going with the chest). It's obvious which one is better stat wise. You may have BiS'd your gear differently...

That being said, I can see the 4pb being decent under certain circumstances, so upgrading your chest first (especially if you have been casual for 3 months while ToC has been going) may not be the worst idea.

[Riek]

RNG is RNG. I run TOC and TOGC every week and I still don't have my solace. Today I finally saw one drop, but I didn't win the roll.

it's kind of like my guild only seeing 2 justicebringer, 1 solace, and 2 death's verdict ever since we had ToC on a farm (I think late Aug or early sept? I can't remember probably not accurate dates but somewhere around that time)

and @ thoukaia, even if you have the shoulders from marrowgar, I'd probably still get T10 and upgrade my shoulders to 264 ASAP with token. From what I remember, hands and leg tier pieces do not provide haste so they aren't the viable for 2pc unless you're thinking of going for 4pc. If you look at chest piece however, it does provide haste but the plate/mail chest pieces that drop from ICC will give additional socket that would prove to be better. This way you can get haste bonuses from both chest and shoulder, as supposed to just from the chest piece.

This of course is only important if you're not planning on getting 4 pc T10. I have the marrowgar 25 shoulder atm, and I personally would get shoulder piece first and just upgrade it to 264 ASAP.



Anyways, a solid list firecrest! Seems that this threat kinda sums up all those posts from "rate the holy paladin above you" =P

[roboscorcher]

I'm FoL spamming atm (as opposed to HL's). While yellow slots always get Int gems, I fill reds with SP. I'll probably fill blues with +10 stats from now on.

Anyways, my question is if SP is worth it for FoL spammers? And is FoL healing comparible to HL healing in raids? I'm not a spreadsheet user atm, so if someone could show me data comparing FOL/HL pallies, that would be awesome.

[Riek]

I'm FoL spamming atm (as opposed to HL's). While yellow slots always get Int gems, I fill reds with SP. I'll probably fill blues with +10 stats from now on.

Anyways, my question is if SP is worth it for FoL spammers? And is FoL healing comparible to HL healing in raids? I'm not a spreadsheet user atm, so if someone could show me data comparing FOL/HL pallies, that would be awesome.

SP is worth it for FoL spammers, if I were you I'd probably stack SP and for yellow slots put in 10 int + 12 sp

and FoL healing isn't comparable to HL healing in raids. Maybe it'll work great in heroics, but not in raids in my perspective.

Sadly I do not have datas, but I do have experiences that accounts for it. Consider my case for instance. Im HL-user (for the lack of better description to distinguish between HL and FoL "spammer"). Some other holy paladins in the guild is not. Let's just say in an encounter like marrowgar, I do all the tank healings (the burden on me to heal 3 tanks is much heavier when compared to having disc priest for example) while they do very little.


Things get worse when you have holy paladin not specced into enlightned judgement or whatever the name of the talent that gives 15% haste when you cast judgement, but I guess that's not really related to the case here =P

[Biteyou]

I'm FoL spamming atm (as opposed to HL's). While yellow slots always get Int gems, I fill reds with SP. I'll probably fill blues with +10 stats from now on.

Anyways, my question is if SP is worth it for FoL spammers? And is FoL healing comparible to HL healing in raids? I'm not a spreadsheet user atm, so if someone could show me data comparing FOL/HL pallies, that would be awesome.

No.

[Warfang]

3) Your trinkets are wrong. There is no excuse whatsoever not to have two very solid trinkets. Talisman of Resurgence is an easy badge purchase and Tears of the Vanquished is an easy farm from 5-man normal ToC. Every Holy Pally should start with these two and move up from there. Running with crap trinkets is completely unacceptable.

Sorry for just hitting 80 and not having them, I'll stop healing now

[mypally]

5) Your gems are wrong. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond and lots and lots of Brilliant King's Amber. Anything else is wrong. If you can use a Luminious Ametrine and a Dazzling Eye of Zul to meet two socket bonuses, go ahead. Otherwise use a Nightmare Tear. A socket bonus that gives Int is usually worth getting as well. Also, be smart about your gemming. Don't get a +7 SP bonus when you can move that gem to a different spot and get +9 SP.

its been a while since ive gone holy, but why would +10 stats be better then any gem? str, agi, spirit, and stam are all useless. 10 int is meh. so why not 10 int and 15 stam? or 10 int and 9 or w/e mp5? just seems the nightmares tear is a terrible idea. of course, i could be wrong

[Claym]

its been a while since ive gone holy, but why would +10 stats be better then any gem? str, agi, spirit, and stam are all useless. 10 int is meh. so why not 10 int and 15 stam? or 10 int and 9 or w/e mp5? just seems the nightmares tear is a terrible idea. of course, i could be wrong

Because 1 nightmare tear activates the meta enabling every other slot to be int.

[Horn]

Busting balls I see. Continue.

[mypally]

Because 1 nightmare tear activates the meta enabling every other slot to be int.

You are telling me that 1 gem with any 2 of : spellpower, mp5, haste(or int, i dunno). is more of a loss then 1 gem that only has 10 int on it? since it was ssaid not to stack int, then I would assume that either spellpower, or mp5 is better, in which case i just see wasted ilvls in the gem. Using 1 coloured gem that contains the 2 colours you dont gem with seems like a much better use. I might rewrite this a little later to make it make more sense if i decide to spend 5 minutes learning how to gear holy ;D

[goetz401]

imp concentraion aura is actually amazing. if a raid has 2 holy pallies, one should be getting 3/3 imp conc aura and the other should be getting imp wisdom. thats 15% less pushback resistance that all healers and casters need to spec into, maybe more depending on the spec. also i know of a few specs that don't have pushback resistance on all of their spells; balance-wrath, all hunters-steady shot, affliction-shadow bolt. for min/max it should be used.

[Deepone]

The flaw here is the flaw that most theorycraft makes: over-emphasizing small deltas.

You routinely refer to things like CRIT as a bad stat. No, STR is a bad stat for Holy. CRIT is a good stat. If a toon balances their on-spec stats relatively evenly, they won't be doing the best they possibly can, but in every case I've ever seen, knowing which ability to use when and having the right macros in place ahead of time beats out having perfectly tuned gear every single time and by a massive margin.

Problem is, you can't inspect someone's skill ahead of time, so people over-emphasize minutia like INT/CRIT/MP5 balance.