10M ICC Best in Slot

[Tirator]

Hello there,
I have been using a mix of Wowhead and Femaledwarf to come out the the absolute Best in Slot gear for a Hunter that runs strictly 10-man Icecrown Citadel.

After many hours of digging through loot lists, calculating the perfect combination of talent points, gems and where they should be set to maximize my dps, I am still not fully confident that this is the BIS for a 10-man ICC raider. So, I figured that if I cannot solve this alone, why not get a second opinion?

I would greatly appreciate anything you have to contribute that is logical and that you can back up here. If there is loot I am overlooking, gems that would perform better in a different slot, or talents that could be rearranged, please let me know here. The only things I require is that the specialization stays Marksman, the four piece set bonus of tier ten is met and that the gems be Agility and NOT Armor Penetration (No trinket either).

Hunter gear link:
http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=20660658

[myo]

why wouldnt you want arp as MM? if you are gemming agil spec surv!

[Tirator]

why wouldnt you want arp as MM? if you are gemming agil spec surv!

I was in fact Survival for a very long time, and I loved it, but the dps wasn't going anywhere fast, and Marksman was out of the question unless you had an ArP trinket (before 3.3). Well when 3.3 dropped I farmed H FoS to get the ArP trinket out of there. So I decided to pick up the ArP MM path, and I was not happy with it. Since the ArP nerf, gemming for ArP is not the same as it used to be, and a lot of people refuse to believe that. Now don't get me wrong ArP does still work and can put out amazing dps, but Agi is very much equivalent, if not a bit better, in my opinion and I prefer it much over ArP. You Do not have to gem for ArP to make Marks work great, drop this mind set.

[Doctor Professor]

Just by a brief look... are you sure your cloak is better then the 272 one from ToGC Insanity http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47546?

[Kennpai]

he said 10 man ICC raider.

[Elysia]

I'm not sure if you're willing to take BOE's into account or not, but if so, I think http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50452 would be an upgrade over your necklace assuming you could drop the hit elsewhere. If not, ignore my two cents! ^^

[Tirator]

I'm not sure if you're willing to take BOE's into account or not, but if so, I think http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50452 would be an upgrade over your necklace assuming you could drop the hit elsewhere. If not, ignore my two cents! ^^

I was looking at that, but yes it would put me even more over the hit cap than I am with this gear, so If it was a large enough upgrade to go over hit that much then yes. I will have to punch in some numbers and see what comes out. Thanks

Just by a brief look... are you sure your cloak is better then the 272 one from ToGC Insanity http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47546?

This will not work, as I said in my post I am looking for 10-man only upgrades.

[Kickpuncher]

Here's the things i would change.
Gems:
If you had all that gear, it would be a dps upgrade to switch to ArP gems, but if you wanted to stay agi you should gem for some of the socket bonuses.

Chest: 1 x 20 agi, 1 x 10+ stats
Waist: 2 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi
Legs: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi
Ashen band: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit
Saurfang's: 10 agi, 10 crit
The rest: 20/34 agi

Trinket:
I'm not sure if WFS from normal will stack with the one from HC, if they do you should get those 2. If they don't then your choices are pretty limited. If your staying agi gemmed you could go for Mjolnir from Ulduar or NES from FoS HC.
But if your gemmed for ArP then Herkulm would be your best bet.

[Tirator]

Here's the things i would change.
Gems:
If you had all that gear, it would be a dps upgrade to switch to ArP gems, but if you wanted to stay agi you should gem for some of the socket bonuses.

Chest: 1 x 20 agi, 1 x 10+ stats
Waist: 2 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi
Legs: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi
Ashen band: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit
Saurfang's: 10 agi, 10 crit
The rest: 20/34 agi

Trinket:
I'm not sure if WFS from normal will stack with the one from HC, if they do you should get those 2. If they don't then your choices are pretty limited. If your staying agi gemmed you could go for Mjolnir from Ulduar or NES from FoS HC.
But if your gemmed for ArP then Herkulm would be your best bet.

Here is the way I see things, not that you were wrong, but in some places you had me questioning.

1 Agility = 1 Attack power
14 RAP = 1 DPS
.552 Crit rating = 1 Agility
88.2 Agility = 1% Crit
45.91 Crit rating = 1% Crit

So, in order for a socket bonus to be worth going for it would have to give at least 5 agility, (Deadly Ametrine = 10 Agi, 10 Crit. 10 Crit = 5.52 Agi. So the entire gem is worth 15.52 Agility, 15.52 + 5 = 20.52 Agi > 20 Agi ) and require a red, yellow, or both socket(s). If an item had a Blue and a yellow socket and it had a 5+ Agi socket bonus, it would only be worth going for if you had not yet met your Meta requirement, but any additional Shifting Dreadstones would be a DPS loss. However, if an item had 2 Yellows and 1 Red, it would have to give a 9 Agility socket bonus for it to be better than just applying 2x 20+ Agi gems (Deadly Ametrine x2 = 20 Agi, 20 Crit rating, Which is equal to 31.04 Agi, with the 9 Agi socket bonus would come out to 40.04. Where as 2x Delicate Cradinal Ruby = 40 Agi < 40.04 Agi).

Therefore, you are indeed correct, Gavinifl, in some areas. But, going for the leg, belt and Ashen band socket bonus' would be a DPS loss.

[Sartuk]

Or you could put it into the spreadsheet/femaledwarf.com and figure when it's worth socketing for the bonus or not.

I would take 14 Agi/10 Crit over 20 Agility (as Marks) any day of the week, period. 10 crit is worth more DPS than 6 agility. This is something that the Spreadsheet can tell you much, much, much better than your napkin math can. Looking at everything in terms of its relative value to Agility is much more work than you need to be doing. Look at everything in terms of DPS given to your character.

Note: 14 RAP is not equal to 1 actual DPS. It only equates to 1 DPS on the paperdoll character screen, and that paper doll DPS is not considering critical strikes, mob armor, anything other than autoshot, trinket procs, etc. etc.

[Tirator]

If you don't mind my asking, would you post an armory link to your Hunter, Sartuk? Just for my own curiosity.

[Kickpuncher]

"So, in order for a socket bonus to be worth going for it would have to give at least 5 agility" how did you come to this conclusion? And why on earth would you use a Shifting Dreadstone?
But let me give you some dps numbers from the spreadsheet, and you can make up your own mind.

Your set, with your gems: 11649,66 dps

Your set, with my gems: 11665,97 dps

Your set, with full ArP and 10stats gem: 11811,72 dps

[Tirator]

"how did you come to this conclusion?"

Sigh, I wrote out every calculation I used to back up my ideas, I don't know how you could have missed it. But I'll spell out the line that specifically backs this up for you.

"So, in order for a socket bonus to be worth going for it would have to give at least 5 agility, (Deadly Ametrine = 10 Agi, 10 Crit. 10 Crit = 5.52 Agi. So the entire gem is worth 15.52 Agility, 15.52 + 5 = 20.52 Agi > 20 Agi )"

And what do you mean "why on earth would you use a Shifting Dreadstone?"? How else would I activate my meta? Am I missing something here?

And when I said you had me confused it was about "Legs: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi" That doesn't make sense,The sockets are Yellow and Blue.

[kingmob]

Nightmare tear?

[Kickpuncher]

"how did you come to this conclusion?"

Sigh, I wrote out every calculation I used to back up my ideas, I don't know how you could have missed it. But I'll spell out the line that specifically backs this up for you.

"So, in order for a socket bonus to be worth going for it would have to give at least 5 agility, (Deadly Ametrine = 10 Agi, 10 Crit. 10 Crit = 5.52 Agi. So the entire gem is worth 15.52 Agility, 15.52 + 5 = 20.52 Agi > 20 Agi )"

And what do you mean "why on earth would you use a Shifting Dreadstone?"? How else would I activate my meta? Am I missing something here?

And when I said you had me confused it was about "Legs: 1 x 10 agi, 10 crit, 1 x 20/34 agi" That doesn't make sense,The sockets are Yellow and Blue.

Oh yea the legs.. i just used the auto regemmer. It sometimes messe's up. the legs should be 2 pure agi. But as kingmob says, you should only use a Nightmare tear as a blue gem.
And I'm sorry but i think your calculation is wrong. You can't calc. how much a stat will be worth like that. I haven't got any fancy formulas or anything, i just let the spreadsheet do the calculation for me, and it says your wrong.

[Tirator]

Oh yea the legs.. i just used the auto regemmer. It sometimes messe's up. the legs should be 2 pure agi. But as kingmob says, you should only use a Nightmare tear as a blue gem.
And I'm sorry but i think your calculation is wrong. You can't calc. how much a stat will be worth like that. I haven't got any fancy formulas or anything, i just let the spreadsheet do the calculation for me, and it says your wrong.

Interesting, could you tell me what spreadsheet you're using? is it Femaledwarf?

Also, I would appreciate it if you took a look at the link again, I made some changed (based on your submissions) and I want to know what you think.

[Toas]

The general rule of thumb is that if a socket bonus only needs 1 yellow gem to activate it and the socket bonus is 4+agil/12+AP/etc., then you should be using a 10 crit/10agil gem. 14 agil/10 crit > 20 agil

Also as aforementioned, the only type of blue gem you should be using is a Nightmare Tear.

It doesn't matter which spreadsheet Gavinnifl is using; they should also show the same result. I use Shandara's personally, and if I recall correctly, it lists EP values at around agil = 1.4, crit = 1.1

10 agil/10 crit gem with 4 agil socket bonus = 14 * 1.4 + 10 * 1.1 = 30.6
20 agil gem, no socket bonus = 20 * 1.4 = 28

[Sartuk]

If you don't mind my asking, would you post an armory link to your Hunter, Sartuk? Just for my own curiosity.

Absolutely, sorry for the late reply!

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...edar&cn=Tukina

[Kickpuncher]

Interesting, could you tell me what spreadsheet you're using? is it Femaledwarf?

Also, I would appreciate it if you took a look at the link again, I made some changed (based on your submissions) and I want to know what you think.

I think you got it right now
As Toas, the spreadsheet I'm talking about is Shandara's from the Elitist Jerks forum: http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t30710-w...s_spreadsheet/
It's basically the same as femaledwarf, there is just a lot more info to get from it. Femaledwarf is a bit easier to use though, because the spreadsheet can look a bit intimidating the first time you open it, but this guide should get you on the right track, if you want to start using it: http://outdps.com/2009/05/29/shandar...guide-updated/

[Doctor Professor]

And what do you mean "why on earth would you use a Shifting Dreadstone?"? How else would I activate my meta? Am I missing something here?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49110