Firecrest's 3.3 Holy Pally Wish List

[Firecrest]

Yes, it's a BiS list. Yes, I could have simply posted in one of the others floating around. However, I wanted to provide a bit of commentary and discuss why second place got second place instead of just throwing up a bunch of links. So sue me.

Props go to Shadowdream who actually got most of it right after making some modifications.

As an aside, putting this together was actually pretty rough. It's entirely possible that I may have missed something. Feel free to correct me.

The List:
Helm - Sanctified Lightsworn Headpiece (264 version + Heroic Mark)
Neck - Blood Queen's Crimson Choker (Heroic Blood Queen Nana'thel 25)
Shoulders - Sanctified Lightsworn Spaulders (264 version + Heroic Mark)
Cloak - Frostbinder's Shredded Cape (Heroic Valithria Dreamwalker 25)
Chest - Mail of Crimson Coins (Heroic Prince Valanar 25)
Wrist - Crypt Keeper's Bracers (Heroic Prince Valanar 25)
Gloves - Unclean Surgical Gloves (Heroic Festergut 25)
Belt - Belt of the Blood Nova (Heroic Cache of the Deathbringer 25)
Legs - Leggings of Woven Death (Tailoring Recipe)
Boots - Plague Scientists Boots (Heroic Festergut 25)
Ring - Marrowgar's Frigid Eye (Heroic Marrowgar 25)
Ring - Ashen Band of Endless Wisdom (Exalted with the Ashen Verdict)
Trinket - Solace of the Fallen (Heroic Lord Jaraxxus 25)
Trinket - Meteorite Crystal (Algalon 10)
Weapon - Val'anyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings (Obv)
Shield - Bulwark of Smouldering Steel (Heroic Marrowgar 25)
Libram - Libram of Renewal (15 Emblems of Heroism)

Notes:
Helm/Shoulders - Tier goes here. There is no 277 Haste/MP5 option for either of them and the 2p is something you want to pick up. They are the best choices. A post I made explaining the general reasoning behind skipping 4p can be found here. It shows the impraticality of 4p ever being useful to a raid. Another post, explaining the math behind why 4p is actually a net loss overall can be found here.

Neck - Choker of Filthy Diamonds is second. Despite having better itemization, it's lower ilevel loses out. The comparison between it and the BiS is 26 MP5 vs 10 Int and 65 Crit. MP5 is better than Crit, but not that much better.

Cloak - Jaina's Radiance takes second place for having the exact same stats but just 5 ilevels less (and also a worse gem slot color). Heartsick Mender's Cape comes in third, screwed by its ilevel despite proper itemization.

Chest - Rot-Resistant Breastplate is a close second for having 16 more Haste, but I don't think that quite makes up for its Haste/Crit itemization (it does, however, look much much much much better). Sanctified Lightsworn Tunic is not terrible, but is definitely third.

Wrist - Bloodsunder's Bracers have the exact same stats and only get second place for being mail instead of plate. Take whichever drops first.

Gloves - There really is no second place here. Fallen Lord's Handguards are our plate option but they have Crit and less Haste than the BiS. Pass.

Belt - Another easy choice. Nothing even close enough to bear mentioning.

Legs - Legs are really tricky. There's like four different options that are all pretty much on par with each other. The end result is probably something like Leggings of Woven Death, Legguards of Concealed Hatred, Lightning-Infused Leggings and Puresteel Legplates in that order. Number 1 and Number 2 are very very close to each other while 3 and 4 are categorically worse than the crafted cloth legs for having less Haste and more Crit. The difference is not gigantic though and you may decide to opt for appearance over function (though they all look pretty bad). The only way you can really go wrong here is if you pick up Tier or anything 277. lol

Boots - Shuffling Shoes and Earthsoul Boots are not far behind, but fall short in the Haste category.

Trinkets - Turns out that Sliver of Pure Ice does indeed have a 2 min CD, making it freaking terrible. Way to go Blizzard. I love using a year old libram and a 9 month old trinket. Thanks. =/

Shield - Yet again, the 264 Haste/MP5 doesn't quite make the cut. Lost Pavise of the Blue Flight has a worse gem color and significantly less Int and Haste.

Ring, Weapon, Libram - All of these are painfully obvious and have no competition whatsoever. If someone wants to start up a discussion about Val'anyr vs Trauma, I'll chime in. But it seems to have been pretty much settled that Trauma is not really a Pally weapon. I wouldn't be surprised to see an awesome 277 drop off LK though.


As I actually put time into this, it is apparent that I'm going to be wearing a lot more Crit than I had expected. There are a lot of examples (Neck, Back, Wrist) where the highest ilevel Haste/MP5 is 264 and there is a 277 Haste/Crit alternative. And it looks like the higher ilevel wins out in most situations.

In the end though, I'm pretty pleased with what Blizzard has given us. Outside of the fact that we're dipping heavily into non-plate armor types, the end result is very well rounded stat-wise.

Here's the model viewer with end result stats (may be some gem changes based on bonuses and I couldn't figure out how to get a Belt Buckle on) and the 3D of what it will look like. Get ready to equip a tabard. Yuck.

[thoukaia]

You sure that the 277 Sliver of Pure Ice is best option for second trinket slot? I think the 277 Althor's Abacus is a better choice.

Anyway i'd wait to see Arthas loot before making a BiS list. Praps for the effort though.

[Firecrest]

You sure that the 277 Sliver of Pure Ice is best option for second trinket slot? I think the 277 Althor's Abacus is a better choice.

I haven't had one to play with but everything I've read suggests this trinket does not work in a manner favorable to Holy Pallies. The best of the best reports I have seen from all classes gives it 3-5 percent of a person's total heals comming from the normal mode version. It would seem pretty clear that we will get better returns out of the mana regen trinkets.

[Nullified]

To add a socket to the belt, just right click and select "Extra Socket"

[Raiss]

Ring, Weapon, Libram - All of these are painfully obvious hand have no competition whatsoever. If someone wants to start up a discussion about Val'anyr vs Trauma, I'll chime in. But it seems to have been pretty much settled that Trauma is not really a Pally weapon. I wouldn't be surprised to see an awesome 277 drop off LK though.

Looted a trauma yesterday. After half hour using it, it didn't had any usefull procs at all. The int is low and it lacks form haste. So I gave it a a druid. Keep the lengendary or go for the 10-man heroic one, imo. If you really want a high spell power weapon, get a wrathful tier2 one. At least they have a slot and some mp5.

[Skulldancer]

Its funny you changed your tune on MP5 from GREATLY TRUMPS to not that much better than..................

[Firecrest]

Pretty sure I've been saying that Haste/MP5 and Haste/Crit were not hugely disparate for quite some time now. If ever I was overtly adamant about the quality of MP5, it was when drilling its superiority over Crit into the head of someone who thought otherwise.

MP5 is better than Crit. How much better is clearly a matter of discussion. Personally I don't think I've changed my stance on the matter. Just because I'm forceful with someone that MP5 is better than Crit doesn't mean that I think it is hugely so.


thoukaia - Done and done. tyvm. You mislabeled Boots though. :P

[serrikard]

Pretty sure I've been saying that Haste/MP5 and Haste/Crit were not hugely disparate for quite some time now. If ever I was overtly adamant about the quality of MP5, it was when drilling its superiority over Crit into the head of someone who thought otherwise.

MP5 is better than Crit. How much better is clearly a matter of discussion. Personally I don't think I've changed my stance on the matter. Just because I'm forceful with someone that MP5 is better than Crit doesn't mean that I think it is hugely so.

Crit is forced down our throats.

I like the list and I have to admit you saved me some time because I've been doing the exact same thing over the last few weeks .. of course there's a "how do I get HERE from THERE" without screwing up the stat itemization too much along the way. For example, getting the 251->277 headpiece prior to upgrading some of the other elements to up your Mp5 to account for the 45-46mp5 from the mail or plate triumph badge helm that most of us probably wear.

Now that tricky part of the upgrade to BiS is what is driving me crazy

I've up to now refused for the most part to loot roll using DKP on much from icecrown because of the odd assortment of gear I knew we were going to be forced to wear (and btw firecrest .. I have to agree .. Tabard is of the upmost necessity with that gear list) thankfully I'm so far ahead now in DKP from our shammies that I can steal from them with impunity. :P

That aspect of the gear is is going to make it a challenge to get BiS .. considering the loot %'s and the fact that in reality, we're second on the list for mail gear - it's going to be challenging to build that set of gear for most of us.

[Biteyou]

Just throwing this out here, you forgot a socket on your belt when you made the preview on Wowhead. Didn't know if you knew that or not. Good BiS list, makes sense.

[Firecrest]

Just throwing this out here, you forgot a socket on your belt when you made the preview on Wowhead. Didn't know if you knew that or not. Good BiS list, makes sense.

Here's the model viewer with end result stats (may be some gem changes based on bonuses and I couldn't figure out how to get a Belt Buckle on) and the 3D of what it will look like. Get ready to equip a tabard. Yuck.

[bigjenk]

At those gear levels mp5 wont be necessary much not accounting for crit returns you will have around 1k mp5 with replen and even if you only use divine plea with both 2piece and aw at the same time that is another 350 mp 5 or so over all. add to this the current h sliver is another 120 or so mp5 although i believe it is bugged and is gonna be 2 min cd which would make normal solace better. i just do not see the need for more than 1500 mp 5 not counting judgements and melee unless there is some incredibly long hl spam necessary fight that you are not able to be in melee range for and it is unsafe to use dp without both 2 peice and aw at the same time.

[Dantrag]

@bigjenk
at those gear levels you will be doing ICC25H. who knows if there are fight where you have to spam hl for all the time?
and yes, i meant spam hl. even if you have 50k mana and 2k mp5 (including plea on-cd, replen, crits etc):
50 000+2 000/5 *t=mana gained per T time
1 100/1.2*t = mana wasted per T time
50000+400t=916t
50000=516t
t=96.9sec
so, in gear which will be unobtainable till Cata you will be able to pure spam HL for 90 seconds. and when you will be OOM (in the middle of 2nd minute of the fight), your raid will die.

'but there are no fight where you have to really spam hl, you always have breaks, some flashes etc' - in normal modes - yes. but there are peoples who forgot about Hm's with their FoL build, and even they are good at normals.

and yes, i think that spamming HL is brainless thing. but sometimes you just have to spam or your raid will die.

[serrikard]

Gee I dont know .. I didn't have too many breaks healing through Festergut as an example .. and damage was pretty steady on Rotface (depending alot on your offtank having to run through slime).

IMO - alot of it depends on your healing crew so there's caveats, if you are bringing on one or more less healer than the atypical max healer amount of the encounter, your holy light splash and/or judgement of light becomes that much more important to the overall healing component - not just your own singular or dual responsibility of keeping a tank or two tanks up.

Loooking at Firecrest's wish list .. I'm seeing around a 2% crit increase at least over my current gear (not including ret versus prot speccing) - which merely amounts to around 5 additional crits over a 1.2 second spam over 5 minutes - that would equalize out to around 31 mp5 gain via crit .. which isn't exactly excessive.

Speccing deep into ret would allow for more gains, than what that BiS list would give by far - but that's a subject of another topic

Firecrest - unfortunately I started all of this way past uldar and getting a group of 25 motivated for a few months to do Uldar hard modes to get Val'anyr I would say I have more chance in getting every single BiS in one week of 25 and 10 mans. What would you choose if you didn't have Val'anyr?

[Mokal]

Firecrest - unfortunately I started all of this way past uldar and getting a group of 25 motivated for a few months to do Uldar hard modes to get Val'anyr I would say I have more chance in getting every single BiS in one week of 25 and 10 mans. What would you choose if you didn't have Val'anyr?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51875

even better than Val'anyr.

[Sidonis]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51875

even better than Val'anyr.

As long as you completely disregard Val'anyr's proc, yes.


@ Firecrest - What about Plague Scientists Boots from Heroic 25? It seems that the ilvl would beat out the itemization of Shuffling Shoes, due to the extra amount of Int and Haste gained on the cloth heroic boots.

P.S. Rather interesting how close your list came out to what I used as a basic sort. Very similar, including things like the Rot BP is better than T10 Heroic, except that you want to use that and Helm for the 2pc of course, which a weight scale won't show.

http://www.wowhead.com/?items&filter...:1:0.9:0.6:0.3

[Firecrest]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51875

even better than Val'anyr.

Not better than Val'anyr, but probably second.

The only other contender is Trauma. Now that it's live on servers, it's been confirmed that it only counts heals you cast. So no crazy JoL shenanigans, no proc'ing off of HoT ticks, HL Glyph or Beacons. The 1% proc chance seems very meh to me - especially when you consider the random nature of it. I mean, how many spells do you cast in a fight? A couple hundred? So two or three procs per fight? I would also assume that a good deal of it will be consistently wasted on overheal.

I dunno. That's just my initial thoughts on the weapon. I haven't really put much effort into learning a whole lot about it given that I definitely won't be replacing Val'anyr with anything yet released.

[Firecrest]

@ Firecrest - What about Plague Scientists Boots from Heroic 25? It seems that the ilvl would beat out the itemization of Shuffling Shoes, due to the extra amount of Int and Haste gained on the cloth heroic boots.

I agree. I didn't pay enough attention to cloth possibilities it would seem! Post updated.

Good catch!

[Mokal]

Not better than Val'anyr, but probably second.

It so is, atleast stats wise, but why would you even replace legendary with epic...
Mr. show off

[Firecrest]

It so is, atleast stats wise, but why would you even replace legendary with epic...
Mr. show off

Stats wise? Why would you completely discount the proc effect of an item? That's like me telling you that DV is bad for you as a Hunter because all it gives you is some AP.

[Deleted]

Patch 3.3 - where Paladins roll in Nikes