critique my tank

[cfeuer1]

can't promise he will always log out in tank gear
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Wellsfargo

25 man:tanked up to saurfang
10man: tanked and killed putricide.(as the tank, not the abomb)

critique me.
my gems
my enchants
my choice of gear(if anything is bad aside from the 170 stam trinket).
my glyphs
my talent tree

question: what overwrites Demo shout?
my main is mage so i focus the manual learning and studying on him. for my tank i ask for assistance.

[Xenryusho]

can't promise he will always log out in tank gear
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Wellsfargo

25 man:tanked up to saurfang
10man: tanked and killed putricide.(as the tank, not the abomb)

critique me.
my gems
my enchants
my choice of gear(if anything is bad aside from the 170 stam trinket).
my glyphs
my talent tree

question: what overwrites Demo shout?
my main is mage so i focus the manual learning and studying on him. for my tank i ask for assistance.

Points out of imp disciplins unless you plan on glyphing shield wall and last stand for progression. two points in imp revenge from whatever you want.

2/5 for imp shield block is enough if you want the points elsewhere, your rage should be full everytime a boss swings.

Warlocks have a curse that overwrites demo, and I believe vindiction does as well unless you talent it for imp demo.

I can't check your gear or gems or enchants because you're armory shows you in fury gear.

You may want to drop glyph of cleaving. For a max threat spec or a deep wounds build I'd use glyph of vigilance in that spot, I'd use glyph of cleaving / shield wall / last stand for a progression build that goes and takes imp disciplines and imp demo then to imp cleave for synergy with points that would otherwise be wasted.

[Pieterman]

id get imp revenge, and replace cleave glyph.

[seam]

Points out of imp disciplins unless you plan on glyphing shield wall and last stand for progression. two points in imp revenge from whatever you want.

This, basicly.

Imp Disciples sucks without the Shield wall glyph, and the same is true the other way around.

[zeo]

As many said, replace you Glyph of Cleaving for another one for bosses fights. If you want to keep Imp. Disc. then I suggest Glyph of Shield Wall. The other 2 glyph are the most common used, so don't replace them or replace Glyph of Devastate with the Taunt one on fights where switching tank is critical (Gormok, Saurfang, etc.). You want to put 2 points in Imp. Revenge. Doing this Revenge will make more DPS than Devastate, even if less TPS but of course more TPS than untalented Revenge, and not having improved Revenge will change a bit your priority rotation, since Revenge will make even less DPS than Devastate so it'll drop on bottom of the list, following SW/Conc. Blow.
Otherwise your spec seems good, you can drop 1 point from Focused Rage to put it in Shield Spec. but it won't be a big difference since it'll stay balanced anyway.
Can't judge your gear since you're in fury spec/gear.

[seam]

or replace Glyph of Devastate with the Taunt one on fights where switching tank is critical (Gormok, Saurfang, etc.).

Just to comment on this, for those fights you can put Vigilance on the other tank, so when you taunt if you miss you can spam taunt untill you get it, as it will have virtually no CD.

[zeo]

Just to comment on this, for those fights you can put Vigilance on the other tank, so when you taunt if you miss you can spam taunt untill you get it, as it will have virtually no CD.

Yep you can but I usually don't do this, I prefer going safer with a Glyph even if you still can miss, but for now it gave me no problems. I think since I started using it, on Gormok HC till now I missed only once/twice. But many tanks do it so I'm not saying it's wrong.

[cfeuer1]

wow.....talents for revenge....wow. i never would have though seeing as i can't stun bosses and i would call tps > dps. but it seems unanimous.

replaced cleave with vig
will get 2 revenge by taking out 2 discipline.
was suggested i get 2/5 blocking. agree/oppose? where would i put 2 other points. bloodrage?

im in my tank gear now.

[Soapyclean]

wow.....talents for revenge....wow. i never would have though seeing as i can't stun bosses and i would call tps > dps. but it seems unanimous.

Imp. Revenge gives 20% more damage to revenge with 2 points into it.

[Xenryusho]

You suck as tank

Ignore this person. He's probably just a troll.

wow.....talents for revenge....wow. i never would have though seeing as i can't stun bosses and i would call tps > dps. but it seems unanimous.

We do it for the 20% extra damage, not the stun part. Infact the stun part annoys me a lot of the time lol. But the extra damage is definitely worth it for two talent points.

was suggested i get 2/5 blocking. agree/oppose? where would i put 2 other points. bloodrage?

Those points are kinda floaters, you can put them where ever your want.. I think the best place for them would be in cruelty (although not great other things would probably be wasted points) but that's your call, bloodrage is also viable considering the recentish buff you'll be getting I think 40 rage total which isn't terrible to start a fight or OT something if that's what you do. I guess booming voice isn't a -bad- choice for floating points but I much rather have it in a more active talent.

[cfeuer1]

Those points are kinda floaters, you can put them where ever your want.. I think the best place for them would be in cruelty (although not great other things would probably be wasted points) but that's your call, bloodrage is also viable considering the recentish buff you'll be getting I think 40 rage total which isn't terrible to start a fight or OT something if that's what you do. I guess booming voice isn't a -bad- choice for floating points but I much rather have it in a more active talent.

i'll go with cruelty then.

[Phation]

Only thing I'd say to change would be your spec would be dump the points in Imp Spell reflect, not ideal for PvE encounters. I'd say take the points out of there and stick them in Cruelty otherwise your Deep Wounds is somewhat of a waste. For overall TPS it would be more efficient to put them there anyways seeing as you have low hit rating and want to maximize as much as of your hits as you can.

Just a side note, not all 5 points into Shield Specialization isn't about rage, it's about threat based off Critical Block and Damage shield, it makes AoE tanking slightly easier also. To each their own and if you don't have a problem without it then don't worry.

*Edit* Shoulderplates of Enduring Order would be an upgrade for you, didn't notice your shoulders were conquest.

[Xenryusho]

Only thing I'd say to change would be your spec would be dump the points in Imp Spell reflect, not ideal for PvE encounters. I'd say take the points out of there and stick them in Cruelty otherwise your Deep Wounds is somewhat of a waste. For overall TPS it would be more efficient to put them there anyways seeing as you have low hit rating and want to maximize as much as of your hits as you can.

Just a side note, not all 5 points into Shield Specialization isn't about rage, it's about threat based off Critical Block and Damage shield, it makes AoE tanking slightly easier also. To each their own and if you don't have a problem without it then don't worry.

*Edit* Shoulderplates of Enduring Order would be an upgrade for you, didn't notice your shoulders were conquest.

Because of the way the hit table works an attack that wouldn't be blocked would be a direct hit (block would be pushed off entirely if you had enough dodge and parry / miss), either way you're dealing the threat from damage shield. Critical block I will recognize being more synergistic with Imp Block however it being the best place for points is debatable. If you're dieing a lot while AoE tanking then put points in it, then sure put it in.

Cruelty is nice and works well with Deep Wounds however because of the math related to critically striking the extra threat and damage from the deep wounds proc (with the small extra chance) isn't high enough to justify the low amount of average damage you get out of it, that if of course considering there is a better talent for what you want to do. (If you don't understand why it can be given that with 50% critical strike chance it is true for average every hit effected by crit will deal 150% more damage then if you had 0% crit. Because of prot warriors naturally high crit chance on attacks through talents like Sword and Board 2% extra crit is a small increase in damage done when figured against the average 25%+ (including talents) crit a warrior will have raid buffed.)

10%ish base = 110% Extra damage a hit.
25% = 125% Extra damage a hit. 15 / 110 = 13.6% increase.
27% = 127% Extra damage a hit. 2 / 125 = 1.6% increase.


In other works cruelty is the ideal filler talent if you have every alternative skill that would comparatively increase your dps and or tps (whichever you are concerned about despite the fact that one likely means the other).

[Phation]

Critical block I will recognize being more synergistic with Imp Block however it being the best place for points is debatable. If you're dieing a lot while AoE tanking then put points in it, then sure put it in.

That's what I'm getting at really, it works well in a situation based on more than one thing hitting you. I wasn't saying it wasn't the best place to put them more of a side note really, I know it's a common thing with warriors with AoE threat issues. The reason I mentioned the other two talents is because it adds to more mitigation and threat overall in AoE threat generation. We gain threat (small as it may be) via the talents and a higher block value and percentage drastically increases that. That's all I was getting at nothing bad meant by it or anything, just a footnote

Cruelty is nice and works well with Deep Wounds however because of the math related to critically striking the extra threat and damage from the deep wounds proc (with the small extra chance) isn't high enough to justify the low amount of average damage you get out of it, that if of course considering there is a better talent for what you want to do. (If you don't understand why it can be given that with 50% critical strike chance it is true for average every hit effected by crit will deal 150% more damage then if you had 0% crit. Because of prot warriors naturally high crit chance on attacks through talents like Sword and Board 2% extra crit is a small increase in damage done when figured against the average 25%+ (including talents) crit a warrior will have raid buffed.)

Your math and calculations are perfect, what I'm more getting at is that, overall, Cruelty will directly effect the up time of your Deep Wounds, it's strictly based off of Critical Strike hits, which will in turn effect your threat per second. Look at talents like Incite, they increase the critical strike chance of your Heroic Strike by 15%.
So, you have your base value of say 10% (pretty average for most prot warriors outside of a raid), now apply the bonus of Incite fully talented (15%), you're up to 25%. This means that, in theory, every 1/4 hits will be critical and thus proc deep wounds. Now you may look at the small value of 2% increased critical strike as a small increase, but also think about this, it means you're ability is up 2% more of the time which can equal out to a very long time on a boss encounter and can add up to a whole pile of threat, not just damage. This same 2% is also applied to all base line abilities which can factor out to a great deal more threat and more damage respectively.
Lastly, look at the talent you're giving up, while it's very very useful, it's situational because not everything can be spell reflected and not all mobs random cast. So in terms of overall benefit to the player I'd say you'd best be suited by the 2 in Cruelty as opposed to Spell Reflect, it means more threat and more damage overall. Nothing at all you said was wrong in any way shape or form, you're 100% correct but the thing is in terms of overall benefit in this case the Cruelty would be a more efficient use of talent points. Without a doubt one of the best number crunches I've seen in a while though, MAJOR kudos to you Xenryusho. It's nice to see somebody really really really think things out. Quite refreshing, thank you

[Xenryusho]

That's what I'm getting at really, it works well in a situation based on more than one thing hitting you. I wasn't saying it wasn't the best place to put them more of a side note really, I know it's a common thing with warriors with AoE threat issues. The reason I mentioned the other two talents is because it adds to more mitigation and threat overall in AoE threat generation. We gain threat (small as it may be) via the talents and a higher block value and percentage drastically increases that. That's all I was getting at nothing bad meant by it or anything, just a footnote

Your math and calculations are perfect, what I'm more getting at is that, overall, Cruelty will directly effect the up time of your Deep Wounds, it's strictly based off of Critical Strike hits, which will in turn effect your threat per second. Look at talents like Incite, they increase the critical strike chance of your Heroic Strike by 15%.
So, you have your base value of say 10% (pretty average for most prot warriors outside of a raid), now apply the bonus of Incite fully talented (15%), you're up to 25%. This means that, in theory, every 1/4 hits will be critical and thus proc deep wounds. Now you may look at the small value of 2% increased critical strike as a small increase, but also think about this, it means you're ability is up 2% more of the time which can equal out to a very long time on a boss encounter and can add up to a whole pile of threat, not just damage. This same 2% is also applied to all base line abilities which can factor out to a great deal more threat and more damage respectively.
Lastly, look at the talent you're giving up, while it's very very useful, it's situational because not everything can be spell reflected and not all mobs random cast. So in terms of overall benefit to the player I'd say you'd best be suited by the 2 in Cruelty as opposed to Spell Reflect, it means more threat and more damage overall. Nothing at all you said was wrong in any way shape or form, you're 100% correct but the thing is in terms of overall benefit in this case the Cruelty would be a more efficient use of talent points. Without a doubt one of the best number crunches I've seen in a while though, MAJOR kudos to you Xenryusho. It's nice to see somebody really really really think things out. Quite refreshing, thank you

Thank you for clarifying, I understand perfectly and agree with you completely.

[Phation]

Thank you for clarifying, I understand perfectly and agree with you completely.

My pleasure, I'm more of a fan of basing my talents on overall effect rather than singular utility, should have been more clear from the start. My apologies

[cfeuer1]

ok, cruelty to stack with deep wounds.
i have a trophy i didn't know what to use on, over looked my shoulders.

[Phation]

ok, cruelty to stack with deep wounds.
i have a trophy i didn't know what to use on, over looked my shoulders.

Those look like your best bet mate. Shoulders are a good thing though I'm thinking I may even take the non-set piece shoulders over trophy for more avoidance.