Crippling Poison -- Unchecked?

[Fendel]

Before anything gets out of hand I think Rogues are in an interesting place as far as Arena goes at the moment. Their damage is high, their escapes are fine and all -- but it's their talent "Deadly Brew" that gets me; but not so much as the talent as it is Crippling Poison itself. The ability is a 70% snare reduction, which I thought all other complete -snare- effects got normalized to 50%.

20% extra make a difference? Yes. I believe if you earn your way to get away from a rogue for a split moment, it should count -- but if a poison does not get off with a cleanse or what not, that 70% snare reduction will not allow you to even strafe far enough to matter and the Crippling Poison is right back on and there is -no- getting away unless Hand of Freedom is rockin'.

Point is, the poison snare should be normalized or even work similar to a Death Knights chains of ice ability where the snare lets up as seconds tick.

[Proletariat]

Oh well. Hamstring's at 50% but can't be removed with Abolish poison. Give and take. It's a little variety amongst classes.

[Fendel]

Oh well. Hamstring's at 50% but can't be removed with Abolish poison. Give and take. It's a little variety amongst classes.

I love variety, but a snare like that that does not require a burst resource or global -- things may be a bit too 'spamy' if ya ask me.

[Dcruize]

Warriors - More than enough mobility to negate crippling, combined with undispellable snare of their own
Death Knights - AoE snare, ranged snare
Mages - Ranged snares coming out of their asses, decent mobility
Hunters - lol10
Paladins - Cleanse, ranged snare, ranged stun, HoF
Druids - Cleanse, roots, travel form
Shamans - Ranged snare, ghostwolf
Priests - Survivability vs rogues isn't exactly their number #1 issue
Warlocks - Squishy vs rogues

Are you a warlock?

*edit* just seen that you're a prot-pala. Maybe I'm a scrub but good prot palas flatten me, a lot of the time I'm the one trying to run away from them, not the other way around

[K4ge]

Yeah, mage snares are normalized to 50%... oh wait, they're not
Yeah, hunter snares are normalized to 50%... oh wait, they're not
Yeah, dk...
Yeah, Sham...

get my point?

[onaqui]

Warriors - More than enough mobility to negate crippling, combined with undispellable snare of their own
Death Knights - AoE snare, ranged snare
Mages - Ranged snares coming out of their asses, decent mobility
Hunters - lol10
Paladins - Cleanse, ranged snare, ranged stun, HoF
Druids - Cleanse, roots, travel form
Shamans - Ranged snare, ghostwolf
Priests - Survivability vs rogues isn't exactly their number #1 issue
Warlocks - Squishy vs rogues

Are you a warlock?

*edit* just seen that you're a prot-pala. Maybe I'm a scrub but good prot palas flatten me, a lot of the time I'm the one trying to run away from them, not the other way around

So you call crippling dispellable? In 2v2 or 1v1? Shit that doesn't matter. He will apply it about every attack he makes, and he will have 6 other poisons on you (5x deadly + wounding, total of 7). Meaning that you won't get it off unless he stops attacking the target.

They should all be 50%.

[K4ge]

Then learn to peel ffs
Rogues already have severe mobility issues, make crippling 50% and you can basically scratch the class out of arena.

[Dcruize]

So you call crippling dispellable? In 2v2 or 1v1? Shit that doesn't matter.

Yeah it's dispellable - travel form dispells it 100% reliably

2v2 and 1v1? Rogues have very low representation in high-rated 2v2 as it is - nerfing crippling poison so we get fewer chances to hit our target would be a killer. Just compare rogues to other melee classes; they have either ranged snares or decent mobility, and it's not as if rogue damage is out of control.

Sorry but I don't see what the problem with crippling poison/deadly brew is. If you think it's bad, wait until we get our trainable shadowstep :P Or maybe that's wishful thinking....

[Crazhr]

Yeah it's dispellable - travel form dispells it 100% reliably

2v2 and 1v1? Rogues have very low representation in high-rated 2v2 as it is - nerfing crippling poison so we get fewer chances to hit our target would be a killer. Just compare rogues to other melee classes; they have either ranged snares or decent mobility, and it's not as if rogue damage is out of control.

Sorry but I don't see what the problem with crippling poison/deadly brew is. If you think it's bad, wait until we get our trainable shadowstep :P Or maybe that's wishful thinking....

I can only agree with this, rogue are VERY far from the season 3 and 4 days where they could fight in mostly pve gear and had a spot in every team. Today rogues lacks movement and survivability.

About shadow step in I would love to have it as a base spell, but I remember a blue post at the end of tbc saying they did not want rogue to jump all around the battlefield since that was more a warrior thing. Then again they gave kitty druids charge so there might be abit of hope.

[Wesz]

Lol, crippling is fun

cleansing totem
cure toxins
wolves
earthbind

etc

fun

[Shasui]

Disengage + Masterscall + Beastial Wrath ftw!

[Deleted]

Yeah, hunter snares are normalized to 50%... oh wait, they're not
get my point?

ehh.. what ?.... show me a hunter snare thats not 50%

[K4ge]

wing clip

[Shasui]

wing clip

O rly?

http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=2974

[Mjollnir]

K4ge n Dcruise. Lets make out.

wing clip

Ya, shasui Wing Clip. Should learn to use it sometime. Its what real pro hunters use to kite instead of jumping over the frost trap.

[K4ge]

The fuck, when did that get patched?
Anyway my point still stands. You have roots and AoE snare, rogues jsut have a singletarget snare (no, FoKing for crip proccs is not viable)

[snodge]

Reroll rogue you'll feel better

[K4ge]

Not very likely.

[Dcruize]

On the topic of CloS, while i don't want it nerfed as such, i do think it'd be much better if they had some sort of passive spell reduction, and the effect of CloS wasn't quite so powerful.

Not so powerful? It's horribly RNG atm, I'm constantly sheeped/cycloned through it. It's not selective memory, it happens repeatedly. Plus the rest of the time I have to use it to try and make up for vanish being unreliable :/ 100% immunity from CloS would be nice, as would being able to use it vs chaos bolt/hammer of justice, or oooo how about 90% spell reflect for a shorter duration?

*edit* Yeah I'm not being serious about the 90% reflect, as interesting as it would make things

[Raptorg]

50% crippling poison would not break rogues.

To whoever said death knights don't have 50% snares..
If you hadn't noticed, the death knight's chains average out to about 50% given they run their course, require a GCD and a rune and is dispellable.
Then there are the tree based snares, first there's the blood snare which requires a glyph and a talent(heart strike).
Second there's the frost snare, which is linked to a disease, and will be removed if said disease is dispelled, again talented.
Third the unholy snare, which is a ground effect similar to frost trap(thus avoidable by moving out of it.), and again.. talented.

The only one that can't be removed is the heart strike snare, but in other cases, the snares are still 50% and avoidable/dispellable in one way or another.

Crippling poison, while dispellable as well, is applied without a GCD, procs on abilities etc, and you'll have multiple poison effect active, which also have a chance to proc on every attack. Not talented or glyphed..
Not to mention stuns and CC which can prevent dispelling.
So honestly, I think the 70% snare is too high right now. Maybe they could just make it 50%, but allow the ability "Shiv" to increase the effect by 20% for 10 seconds. To add more of a skill factor to it. And force the rogue to give up resources and damage.

Maybe it'll balance out as the health/damage ratio increases in favor of health.. But I don't know, rogues will also gain a lot out of this, so it might not change anything..


CloS is fine right now, so I'm not going to bother commenting on that too much..
Warlocks got their defense against it in their teleport, but even that might not be good enough in the long run. Making DC similar to chaos bolt would be an option.