Blood Princes Tank Spec

[Lordcrimmeh]

So I've been discussing with my guild the options for warlock tank on Prince Keleseth, and the need for a proper spec for it. I came up with this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZ0Gb...xzZEchVbhzh:jd

The goal of this spec is mainly damage reduction + threat generation. I don't know the exact numbers, but 25% damage reduction from soul link, 10% magic damage reduction from master demonologist with felhunter, 6% from molten skin. Nether protection for some random damage reduction. Since we have to keep aggro above the dps on him, my goal was obscenely high crit for searing pain to build threat, but otherwise a playstyle similar to demonology (corruption, immolate, and curse of choice on boss, fill with shadowbolt when you have a good threat lead, swap to incinerate on molten core proc). Last glyph in the spec i was thinking health funnel, felhunter, or quick decay.

Feel free to post ideas... warlock damage reduction specs aren't exactly a common thing around here.

[Gihelle]

Nether Protection is a bit lackluster, considering it's a proactive talent. Also if it's anything like it's BC encarnation, once you proc NP, the mob will target something else.

Also, no point at picking Felguard when you're going to use a Felhunter to tank. 5% damage is HUGE.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZbG0...cxZVchVbIzV:jd this is what I came up with. Emberstorm for added threat.

[Figoment]

I haven't done the fight yet but I would assume that a destro pvp spec + glyph of Soul Link would be more then enough.

[Lordcrimmeh]

woops, I had adjusted the spec a bit since i pasted that, heres what i changed to

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZ0Gb...cxZEchVbhzh:jd

[Modez]

Realize that the way the encounter is made that if doesn't take a fancy spec - or even a demo spec - or even soul link. Or even a lock. It just requires a class that can hold aggro over other ranged for 1/3 of the fight [more or less than 1/3 depending on how often that prince is attack-able].

Keleseth casts Dark Nucleus
Instant Cast. Unknown frequency [approx 20-30sec].
Summons a Dark Nucleus which causes Shadow Resonance. This causes the nearest target to resonate with shadow, suffering 1000 damage and reducing Shadow damage taken from all sources by 35% for until canceled. Dark Nuclei Dark Nuclei feed on their own energy, causing them to destroy themselves over [unconfirmed]78sec[/unconfirmed].

What will happen in the fight is the tank on Keleseth (the shadow one that ranged tanks) will spam (in the case of a warlock) searing pain. Keleseth's shadow bolts do not hit hard if they are not empowered. He will not empower until at least 2 nucleus have spawned - ever - after you engage the encounter. Normally 3+ had spawned before he ever gets empowered.

He will spawn the Dark Nucleus and you will run over to where they are (this prince has a long cast range so he won't have to move to keep casting on you - which makes positioning a null) and searing pain one one time to get the to "stick" to you. You are now taking 35% less damage. After the first 2, you will be at 70% resistance. You will fluctuate between 70-105% resistance (before buffs like shadow ward and shadow protection). It is fairly easy to maintain 3 of these on you at a time, with a lapse of one (still giving you two total for 70% resistance) where you will be immune to his damage.

Hopefully this explanation of the mechanics will help people realize they do not need to respec for this in any way, shape or form.

[Lordcrimmeh]

I thought about that, but considering my destro spec has threat reduction, and my affliction spec doesn't go into demonology for soul link, I question the ability of either to do both hold aggro and stay alive without silly amounts of heals

[Modez]

I thought about that, but considering my destro spec has threat reduction, and my affliction spec doesn't go into demonology for soul link, I question the ability of either to do both hold aggro and stay alive without silly amounts of heals

Searing pain + MDs to you + TotT to you and if you still have problems then...

well.. you wouldn't have problems.

You are not going to take damage if you are doing your job right.

Get initial aggro on that prince. Run to a dark nucleus when it spawns. Hit it once with searing pain. Hit prince. Hit Nucleus. Repeat to infinity.

When he gets empowered you will take no damage. You will know when it happens and can even use a healer CD if you screwed up (GS, Pain Suppression, Sac, etc). You will be able to keep 3 nucleus on you if you do it right. If you need Soul Link you are doing it wrong, and will likely die if you ever do the heroic version. It's better to learn it the right way out of the gate then have to reteach yourself later.

[Lordcrimmeh]

Searing pain + MDs to you + TotT to you and if you still have problems then...

well.. you wouldn't have problems.

Personally i'm lacking rogues completely (awesome considering their top notch dps in ICC eh), but MDs should help.... I think demonology would serve best because of the built in survivability, if avoiding a special tank spec.. The main concerns I have are the beginning of the fight survivability wise (repeated 18-19k shadow lances) and threat later in the fight.

[Gihelle]

Realize that the way the encounter is made that if doesn't take a fancy spec - or even a demo spec - or even soul link. Or even a lock. It just requires a class that can hold aggro over other ranged for 1/3 of the fight [more or less than 1/3 depending on how often that prince is attack-able].

Dark Nucleus
Instant Cast. Unknown frequency [approx 20-30sec].
Summons a Dark Nucleus which causes Shadow Resonance. This causes the nearest target to resonate with shadow, suffering 1000 damage and reducing Shadow damage taken from all sources by 35% for until canceled. Dark Nuclei Dark Nuclei feed on their own energy, causing them to destroy themselves over [unconfirmed]78sec[/unconfirmed].

What will happen in the fight is the tank on Keleseth (the shadow one that ranged tanks) will spam (in the case of a warlock) searing pain. His shadow bolts do not hit hard if they are not empowered. He will spawn the Dark Nucleus and you will run over to where they are (this prince has a long cast range so he won't have to move to keep casting on you - which makes positioning a null) and searing pain one one time to get the to "stick" to you. You are now taking 35% less damage. After the first 2, you will be at 70% resistance. You will fluctuate between 70-105% resistance (before buffs like shadow ward and shadow protection). It is fairly easy to maintain 3 of these on you at a time, with a lapse of one (still giving you two total for 70% resistance) where you will be immune to his damage.

Hopefully this explanation of the mechanics will help people realize they do not need to respec for this in any way, shape or form.

I'll have to respec anyway, because one of my specs = Affliction, and the other = PvP destruction (thus, got Destructive Reach).

But considering you're taking 18k damage every 1.5 seconds till the first Dark Nucleus, and they do despawn after a while, I'd say a tank spec would work wonders. Also, we don't know how often he's going to cast a Dark Nucleus.

[EndGame]

From my understanding you can only stack the nuclei shadow buff to TWO. Having three on you gurantees one won't drop off at a bad moment.

That still leaves 30% of the damage that can get through. (30% of 90k is 27k from empowered SBs)

Even if a ranged tank can survive that. You're still better off going on the safe side and going with a demo lock to tank. No fancy spec should be needed; but demo is most definately going to provide the best survivability.

Might want to through the SL glyph in just for the added reduction.

Now if you can stack to 3, that would mean you'd never need a healer on that ranged tank for anything other than random damage done throughout the fight. Which seems, well, silly.

I'd assume you can only get to 70% reduction from the nuclei.

[SpacelySprocket]

You guys are SERIOUSLY over-thinking this esp for a non-limited attempt boss

As long as your healers aren't bad, any spec will be fine for tanking Keleseth. Demo probably is best due to Master Demonologist and Soul Link, but the self healing from Affliction is nice as well.

The ONLY hard part of this fight (as far as keeping the Keleseth tank alive that is) is the beginning before you can start to gather up the Dark Nuclei. Once you have stacks of their debuff up, you could be specc'd 0/0/0 since you'll be practically immune to shadow damage at that point.

If you healer(s) cannot keep you up for the ~1 minute before you can stack the Dark Nuclei buff, they need to up their game.

Also, his non-Empowered Shadowbolt will hit for 19k before resistances or mitigation. That alone will not be enough to one-shot you, and you will have ample time to gather the Nuclei before Keleseth gets Invocation of Blood.

It's awesome that there's a fight that needs a ranged tank again ( <3 Twins in SWP), HOWEVER this fight will be successfully tanked by Mages, Spreists, and Hunters (raids that dont have a Warlock) all over the world. You can try to justify your raid spot for this fight by having this uber ranged tank spec, but it simply is not nessesary.

[Modez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyAw4yT-aUU

Watch the lock in the video. Count how many nucleus are on him. 3 at a time, and a 4th spawns right before one fo the 3 on him dies.

I tanked the worms in TOC with 2/2 Destructive Reach. Without MD's. Without TotT. You can hold aggro if you start with 3-4 searing pains then do your normal DPS rotation. Destro locks generate tons of threat.

[EndGame]

Having 4 on him means nothing about how many of the nuclei buffs one can get.

As I said; I have seen reports that you can only get TWO of those buffs regardless of how many nuclei are on you.

[Doctadrew]

I would've assumed a modified Aff spec.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IcxMb...IktbG0hkhb:jwk

is what came to mind.

[Lordcrimmeh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyAw4yT-aUU

Watch the lock in the video. Count how many nucleus are on him.

We see how many are on him, just not sure if the 3 really make him completely immune, or if the buff on him ultimately only stacks to 2. It is possible i suppose that later in the fight, the only damage the warlock is taking is from the nuclei (3k damage every 1-3 seconds?), but i'm not sure.

Destructive reach is now double the threat reduction it was in ToC, so at the very least, i would expect any lock tanking Keleseth to be spec'd out of it

[Modez]

We see how many are on him, just not sure if the 3 really make him completely immune, or if the buff on him ultimately only stacks to 2. It is possible i suppose that later in the fight, the only damage the warlock is taking is from the nuclei (3k damage every 1-3 seconds?), but i'm not sure.

This is totally correct. He is only taking damage from the nuclei ticks + other damage from other princes. He is taking 0 from the prince he is tanking once he has 3.

Think of it this way:

Blizzard says they don't require any specs to be able to beat encounters. If it only stacked to 70% max, the lock would get hit for 27564 per empowered bolt (every 1.5s) the times that the prince is target-able.

How would that go in with their game design - for normal mode non-gate bosses? It stacks to 105% shadow damage reduction therefore making WHOEVER the ranged tank is, since other ranged tanks don't have things like Soul Link. Watch the locks health bar in the video. The guy who recorded it has grid running.

[EndGame]

That 1000 damage done by the nuclei is affected by the shadow resonance presumably since it says 'all sources' on the debuff.

If it is as you believe it to be; and you can get 3 of the nuclei buffs at once then yes. You'll be immune to shadow damage... which would remove the need for a dedicated healer on the tank so long as they keep 3 nuclei on them (or 4, so they never have the buff drop).

If he continually takes the damage from the nuclei, tho, as in it channels through the shadow damage reduction; you'll definately still need a tank healer.

And @Modez... thanks for pointing out the number of nuclei that are on him. Can you please point out how many shadow resonance buffs he has now? Because the number of nuclei is, as I stated, utterly worthless if there's a cap on the number of stacks you can get.

EDIT: I watched the video again; and even with 3 nuclei on him he takes spike damage ~40% of his health while Keleseth is empowered...

i'm not saying that its not healable damage; but its safer to have a demo lock with as much passive spell damage reduction as possible.

Once people have the fight on farm i'd guess that high-dps locks and s priests will probably end up tanking him.

[Modez]

Please give me a time in the video that you are referring to. I'll bet it's the vortex damage.

If it only stacked to X amount, they would be taking huge spikes every 1.5s for ~20+s. If it is a single spike - they took damage from another source.

[gherkin]

How is it that this is news to people? The information has been out for a month.

With 3 Nuclei, you take zero damage from the Prince. Not immune, just zero damage.

[EndGame]

2:07 / 7:12 is a good point. Its right after invocation of blood hops to Keleseth.

Again though; most of this discussion is going to be completely irrelevant once we get to these guys tonight and see for ourselves. :P