Was Arthas a Death Knight when he killed Terenas?

[Deleted]

That's a contradiction. To be an undead, that one has to die first.

Not really, he went over the transition without dying. Basically the necrotic energies permeated him to a point where he was more undead than anything else.

[Rusher]

Arthas died after he killed Terenas. It says in WC3 when you finish the alliance campaing something like
"The Prince came back for the prize he was expecting. BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA etc. He killed his father and then he died too."
How could Thicondrius rez him if he wasn't dead?

[Safiro]

Title says it all.
IMHO he wasn't yet , he was just controlled by the blade.

Didn' u answer ur own question?

[Haven]

Wrong, Arthas never died.

Ummm, and what about the fact that he has no heart?..

Also, remember the Matthias Lehner quests in Icecrown. http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=13395 shows that he returned to his troops (who welcomed him after some absence), slaughtered them all and raised as ghouls.

That's definitely DK style.

[Deleted]

Arthas died after he killed Terenas. It says in WC3 when you finish the alliance campaing something like
"The Prince came back for the prize he was expecting. BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA etc. He killed his father and then he died too."
How could Thicondrius rez him if he wasn't dead?

/facepalm

So much fail in just one post...

If he died, and according to you after killing Terenas, why isn't it in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King?

And I'm pretty sure the screen you mean says he wandered off into the blizzard and was said to have gone mad in Northrend.

Ummm, and what about the fact that he has no heart?..

I already covered that. He was undead at that point, so I'm not really sure if it counts as death, especially since he apparently didn't crumple to the floor right after doing it.

[Evee]

My question is this(could be wrong), but...if DK's are technically dead soldiers who were brought back to life by the lich king/someone/whatever....how can Arthas ever technically be called a death knight if he has never died? He simply turned into an evil person and gained new abilities once he began to wield frostmourne/fuse with frozen nuts.

[Deleted]

My question is this(could be wrong), but...if DK's are technically dead soldiers who were brought back to life by the lich king/someone/whatever....how can Arthas ever technically be called a death knight if he has never died? He simply turned into an evil person and gained new abilities once he began to wield frostmourne/fuse with frozen nuts.

There are three "generations" of Death Knights.

The first were the Old Horde Death Knights, orcish spirits infused into the corpses of dead Humans.

The first of the second wave of Death Knights was Arthas. He is unique in that he was chosen as the Lich King's champion. Some of the Death Knights of this period were raised, some defected to the Scourge on their own.

The third generation are the playable Death Knights. They were all raised into undeath.

[Stormdash]

Better question -- why can Alliance even *be* DK's of that third generation? Basically, all current playable DKs are, metaphysically speaking, indistinguishable from the Forsaken, and yet, a letter from Tirion can wave a wand over all that "all undead must be destroyed" jazz and DKs have free run of the Alliance. It's a rather annoying plot convenience to make the hero class playable by all races when, really, they all belong to one.

[Deleted]

Better question -- why can Alliance even *be* DK's of that third generation? Basically, all current playable DKs are, metaphysically speaking, indistinguishable from the Forsaken, and yet, a letter from Tirion can wave a wand over all that "all undead must be destroyed" jazz and DKs have free run of the Alliance. It's a rather annoying plot convenience to make the hero class playable by all races when, really, they all belong to one.

Yeah, that bugs me, too. I think it probably has something to do with the Death Knights' allegiance. They're Knights of the Ebon Blade, not followers of Sylvanas.

[The_Harvan]

Arthas was very death knight-like when he killed Terenas.
Falric and Marwyn stayed behind and were left in charge of killing the rest of the citizens of the city
"Raising them into undead using their newly gained powers"
Their leader becoming a death knight wouldn't instantly give them the same powers y'know.

[Eucep]

The 'Forsaken' are all victims to the plague, the player DK's are assumed to be heroes from the original game who died during their defence against the scourge. They are not related, this is why there are also Forsaken Death Knights who are undead, who have died again and been raised again.

As for Arthas, he was a Death Knight the moment he picked up Frostmourne, had his soul stolen by it and thus became a necromantic energy fueled husk and nothing else.

[Deleted]

As for Arthas, he was a Death Knight the moment he picked up Frostmourne, had his soul stolen by it and thus became a necromantic energy fueled husk and nothing else.

Just to clarify here, a Death Knight has to be "broken". If a Death Knight were to just be raised, they'd just be like zombies or ghouls, that is mindless. The problem with mindless undead is that they lose a lot of their fighting skills.

Arthas was broken by the tough decisions he had to do and by the betrayal of Uther and Jaina.

He actually retained a lot of his personality in undeath.

[Stormdash]

I've stood there for the COS thing more than a few times. Uther nor Jaina betrayed anyone. Arthas is the one who lost the mission. Their "betrayal" was the betrayal of the people of Stratholme, Lordaeron, and Azeroth in general by taking no real action to stop him.

[Deleted]

I've stood there for the COS thing more than a few times. Uther nor Jaina betrayed anyone. Arthas is the one who lost the mission. Their "betrayal" was the betrayal of the people of Stratholme, Lordaeron, and Azeroth in general by taking no real action to stop him.

What I meant was that he felt like they betrayed and deserted him when he most needed their support

[Stormdash]

I'd pay real money to know what he was about to tell Uther about the plague. I don't know if that's a reference to some other part of the lore I haven't seen, but he sounds like he's about to disclose this real epiphany before he stops himself.

[Deleted]

I'd pay real money to know what he was about to tell Uther about the plague. I don't know if that's a reference to some other part of the lore I haven't seen, but he sounds like he's about to disclose this real epiphany before he stops himself.

Up to that point, they though the Plague was only meant to kill the people. Arthas realised that it was also turning its victims into the undead.

[Unholyground]

Don't know about yours, but my Azraella was killed and raised.

And they do look decaying if you choose the Death Knight specific skins.

The only ones who never died were Arthas and some of the second generation of Death Knights. I'm pretty sure that Falric and Marwyn were killed, judging by Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, they wouldn't choose to become Scourge.

It is probably all situational. If Arthas walked up to you and was like, wanna be a DK? And you were like yes? im sure he would shoot a beam at you and BAM DK. If you said no hed stab you repeatedly with frostmourne and do it anyways.

[Eucep]

Just to clarify here, a Death Knight has to be "broken". If a Death Knight were to just be raised, they'd just be like zombies or ghouls, that is mindless. The problem with mindless undead is that they lose a lot of their fighting skills.

Arthas was broken by the tough decisions he had to do and by the betrayal of Uther and Jaina.

He actually retained a lot of his personality in undeath.

Yes, he was broken and kept his messed up mind at that point, but the powers of the Death Knight came to him at that point in my opinion.

[Caradinist]

Was Arthas a Death Knight when he killed Terenas?

Yup.

After defeating Mal'Ganis in Warcraft 3 with the Frostmourne, he wandered all over northrend until he lost his sanity to the voice in the blade. Book stuff happens...Then back to Warcraft 3, Arthas returns and kills King Terenas.

But was he a Death Knight? Well, according to the book i haven't read, and the long quest chain concerning his heart, yes.

[CookieEater]

It is probably all situational. If Arthas walked up to you and was like, wanna be a DK? And you were like yes? im sure he would shoot a beam at you and BAM DK.

I'm pretty sure that Rivendare became one willingly, at least that's what I understood last time I read his bio on WoWWiki.