2/2 Magic Attunement vs. 3/3 Incanters Absorption

[Töasty]

Simple question, and I cannot find the numbers on 3/3 incanters vs. 2/3. More range or 5% more sp on incanters? I did some searches on here, and could not find the answer on incanters.

[Mandible]

Incanters 100%. If its 5 man heroics you won´t need either - raids incanters will give you alot and can´t remember a place the other is usefull.

[Töasty]

Without doing the math with spell power coefficients for frost ward and fire ward, assuming a mage has 20k health, the maximum spell power gained from incanters absorption would be 1000 spell power. With only 2 points in incanters, you would have to absorb 10,000 damage vs. 6666 damage with 3 points in incanters. The question is, without power word shield, how much will our frost/fire ward absorb? I found a post that says "Fire Ward, Frost Ward, Mana Shield and Ice Barrier now scale with 80.7% of your spell power." Rank 6 frost ward absorbs 1125 damage. With 3k spell power it should absorb 1125 + (.807x 3000), or 3546 damage? If that is right, the 2/3 incanters would give you 355 spell power and 3/3 would be 532 spell power?

[Skarrd]

3/3 incanter's is as close to useless as it gets. Don't listen to the baddies who are voting incanter's. There is only one reason to sacrifice range, and that is for Magic Absorption. I don't even do that, I sac clearcasting.

[Töasty]

3/3 incanter's is as close to useless as it gets. Don't listen to the baddies who are voting incanter's. There is only one reason to sacrifice range, and that is for Magic Absorption. I don't even do that, I sac clearcasting.

Resists are not the same as absorbs and would not proc Incanters, correct?

[Skarrd]

Resists are not the same as absorbs and would not proc Incanters, correct?

correct, why? <.,

[Temma]

As far as i can see, the only thing Incanter's Absorption is useful would be for Heroic Twins, other than that, a majority of the time you are either taking damage or resisting spells (which doesnt proc Incanters absorption)

[Töasty]

At least 3rd point in incanters yields more dps, magic absorption does not.

[WesM63]

There are plenty of discussions on this at EJ. Valid arguments either way you look at it.

IMHO, IA 100% the way to go. There are waaay to many fights to absorb damage through Frost Ward, Fire Ward and PW:S NOT to have it. Range is great and all, but I saw a bigger benefit from having 3/3 IA.

Not to mention the benefit if you have 2/2 Frost Warding. I'll take my mana, spell power and load off the healers shoulders instead of an extra 6yards in range.

Temma, Pay more attention in fights. There are very few fights that I don't use Frost Ward or Fire Ward in. Twins is only the best example of why IA is important/beneficial.

[Odina]

As far as i can see, the only thing Incanter's Absorption is useful would be for Heroic Twins, other than that, a majority of the time you are either taking damage or resisting spells (which doesnt proc Incanters absorption)

I take it you dont have a valanyr in your raids? Or your priests dont buble you ever? or you dont pop wards for fire / frost dmg?

IA usefullness in ICC:

Frost ward / priest shield on marrows frost flames
Frost ward / priest shield on deathwhisper frostbolts in p2
Fireward / priest shields on the rocket crashes on the boat
Shielded during festergut encountre
Shielded during the blood princes
Shielded during the queens room wide aoe

All thoes will activate IA when you resist / absorb dmg. Perhaps the tool tip threw you off and you assumed it only went of if you used wards however priest shield absorbing dmg counts towards it and sets off IA.

[Swizzle]

holy crap skarrd, i'm sorry you got caught in this thread while i was setting up my surgery date (removing a torn meniscus you pervs).

let me clarify what others here fail to understand: be it 1/3, 2/3, or 3/3 the amount of spellpower you can gain from IA is the same.

don't believe me?
Rank 1
Rank 2
Rank 3

they all cap at 5% max HP, the only difference is the rate at which you gain said spellpower. let's look at the amounts. 1/3 yields 5% of the absorb, 2/3 yields 10%, and 3/3 yields 15%.
going from 1/3 to 2/3 is a 100% gain in spellpower, where as going from 2/3 to 3/3 is only 50%.

still don't see why 3/3 is pointless? here's more math's, assuming max HP of 20,000:

max spellpower gain= 1,000 spellpower
absorbing 1,000 damage per 2 seconds

rank 1:
1,000x0.05=50
1,000/50= 20
20 absorbs needed occurring every 2 seconds= 40 seconds till max gain

rank 2:
1,000x0.10=100
1,000/100= 10
10 absorbs needed occurring every 2 seconds= 20 seconds till max gain

rank 3:
1,000x0.15=150
1,000/150= 6.7 (rounded up to seven since only 6 absorbs would put you short of max)
7 absorbs needed occurring every 2 seconds= 14 seconds till max gain

going from rank 1 to rank 2 cuts the time needed by 20 seconds, whereas going from rank 2 to rank 3 shaves off a paltry 6 seconds. catch my drift yet?

also, you should have a disc priest or, shit, any priest and they should be tossing you a PW:S anyway. the absorb from that procs IA so you're gaining spellpower.
valanyr absorbs trigger it, along with mana shied, fire/frost ward, ice barrier, and sacred shield.

and oh yeah, each fight has something that will proc it as long as you're shielded.

lastly, extra range means less movement. less movement equals more DPS. more DPS equals bigger penis/tighter vagina.

[stormix]

Incanters. It proccs from priests shield = profit.
The above math is not really correct. I mean, if you absorb 5k dmg, you will get 250 sp right ? Yes. BUT!
For example on fights like koralon. When you use your Fire Ward, you get instant 1k sp +, because he is ticking for 4-5k dmg+ the chance to neglect the fire spell dmg= profit.
And 6 yards.. its just not that good. Just my 2 cents. Correct me if im wrong

[Swizzle]

Incanters. It proccs from priests shield = profit.
The above math is not really correct. I mean, if you absorb 5k dmg, you will get 250 sp right ? Yes. BUT!
For example on fights like koralon. When you use your Fire Ward, you get instant 1k sp +, because he is ticking for 4-5k dmg+ the chance to neglect the fire spell dmg= profit.
And 6 yards.. its just not that good. Just my 2 cents. Correct me if im wrong

you are wrong. my math is 100% accurate, you can fiddle with the numbers all you want, i just used nice clean whole numbers that give a clear comparison for the benefit. also, a 5k absorb would net 750 spellpower with 3/3 and 500 for 2/3. guess what though...they both cap at the max the very next proc. hooray for a wasted talent point.

[Töasty]

Swizzle, your argument is only good on a fight with continuous ticking damage. What I was looking at, was one direct damage, such as fire from snobolds in toc, or a frostbolt from lady in ICC. Using the same assumption that the mage has 20k health, yes regardless of the points, the max spell power you can get is 5% of your health, which is 1000 in this instance.

1/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .05= 1000, 20k damage

2/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .10= 1000, 10k damage

3/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .15= 1000, 6.7k damage

How much damage does a typical pw:s absorb?

[Skarrd]

Swizzle, your argument is only good on a fight with continuous ticking damage. What I was looking at, was one direct damage, such as fire from snobolds in toc, or a frostbolt from lady in ICC. Using the same assumption that the mage has 20k health, yes regardless of the points, the max spell power you can get is 5% of your health, which is 1000 in this instance.

1/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .05= 1000, 20k damage

2/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .10= 1000, 10k damage

3/3 points in incanters= (DMG absorbed) x .15= 1000, 6.7k damage

It's the same thing. 3.3k is a LOT less benefit than 10k.
How much damage does a typical pw:s absorb?

[edit] swizzle keeps picking on me.

[Swizzle]

seriously, that's the next thing in my FAQ: "how to properly quote and reply to a previous post"

[Skarrd]

seriously, that's the next thing in my FAQ: "how to properly quote and reply to a previous post"

I think my internet tubes sprung a leak. Got any fixes for that?

[Milamber]

Incanters Absorption should not be overestimated now that the Twins are in the past.

[Swizzle]

Incanters Absorption should not be overestimated now that the Twins are in the past.

yet every fight grants a way to gain spellpower from it. though far less helpful than on twins, a DPS gain is a DPS gain...but it isn't worth 3 god damn talent points.

[thanathus]

how much mana costs power word : shield ?
In my pick up raids, I don't think a priest will cast this shield on me. So going for a 3/3 IA seems useless than gaining max range. By max range, you can avoid being out of range of a bone spike, you can be away from lord marrowagar and see the cold flame before they reach you. You can be far from saurfang beasts and do more dps before they reach you.
More range = more dps before you have to mouve, a boss can mouve before you get out of range.
increase spell is nice, but in the last icc raid (4 bosses and 6 tries on rotface), through logs I've noticed that it triggered only 8times...