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  1. #21
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by hurrrr
    The problem could be that Languish is classified as a Level 1 spell.
    http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=71023
    Ahahaha hahah haha ha.. Oh Blizzard..

    I have gone ahead and made a post on the suggestions board on the EU forums. Thats the best we can do, really. Please help keep it alive:

    http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....256112&sid=1#0
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  2. #22

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    that's all I get? unnamed participant?

    i'm ragin'


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sargeras&n=Beargarden

  3. #23
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    I did not see your armory link as i was writing a reply :P Sorry, ill change it momentarily :P
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  4. #24

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    that's all I get? unnamed participant?

    i'm ragin'
    it was mentioned on EJ forums while back, tipical troll here
    Amberkintribe Yogg+0 kill 10man.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuQ1_SjRxaA

  5. #25
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Parasha
    it was mentioned on EJ forums while back, tipical troll here
    I am fairly certain he's kidding. Let's assume he is
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  6. #26

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Parasha
    it was mentioned on EJ forums while back, tipical troll here
    by a while back you mean like an hour before I posted it? I may go on EJ, but I definitely did not figure that out from there.


    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sargeras&n=Beargarden

  7. #27
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    The spell level of Languish (the tier piece proc) is too low, causing an unintended high level of resists. We can hotfix this.
    Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=2
    Moo, are you happy now?

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    If i can beat my mages and warlocks, then so can you
    Completely untrue, please quit posting nonsense like this, it really negates all the positive things you do around here.

  9. #29

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilt
    Completely untrue, please quit posting nonsense like this, it really negates all the positive things you do around here.
    Umm just because you can't break 9k doesn't mean the rest of us moonkin can't either. I've pulled anywhere from 7800-9200 depending on the fight. Which beats quite a few of the comperable geared locks and mages. On the blood queen im on of the first to get bitten and I pull around 12.5k which is comparable to every other caster dps for that fight. We really aren't behind right now, it's all in your heads. These minor buffs are just going to set the good moonkin even further ahead. Right Qieth

  10. #30
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by rabelz
    Umm just because you can't break 9k doesn't mean the rest of us moonkin can't either. I've pulled anywhere from 7800-9200 depending on the fight. Which beats quite a few of the comperable geared locks and mages. On the blood queen im on of the first to get bitten and I pull around 12.5k which is comparable to every other caster dps for that fight. We really aren't behind right now, it's all in your heads. These minor buffs are just going to set the good moonkin even further ahead. Right Qieth
    I think Eilt is pointing at me assuming that the other guy is equal in skill and gear to his guild. While i understand that some people "can't compare to the rest of the raid, because...", then sure, but we don't theorycraft with special circumstances. If people put in the effort, get comfy with their class, and are equally geared, there is no reason why moonkins can't be comparable to the rest of the caster classes.

    If his comment is merely the old, watered down claim that "moonkin damage sucks", then I will merely roll my eyes. He didn't specify, so i will give him the benefit of doubt.
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    1. I have no issue putting out great numbers, please feel free to link your armory if you want to really talk smack.

    2. Moonkin damage does not suck, but to blanket statement that since A can do B, obvisouly means that X can do B is rather shortsighted.

    3. As an example we went and played in ToC tonight, here is a breakdown of DPS:
    1. Arcane Mage - 13k DPS
    2. Arcane Mage - 13k DPS
    3. Rogue - 9.7k DPS
    4. Feral druid - 9.5k
    5 Feral Druid - 9.3k
    6. DK - 8.8k
    7. Me (Moonkin) - 8.6k

    Now, if you would like to show me a moonkin competing with 13k on Jarax, i would gladly start letting everyone know I am terrible and there are moonkins out there that can pull those numbers.

  12. #32
    Mechagnome
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    You can't compare any dps to mages at Jaraxxus though, that fight is made for them.
    Moo, are you happy now?

  13. #33

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    give ousspelsteal and 40% spell dmg boost lol, then we will pull biger numbers
    Amberkintribe Yogg+0 kill 10man.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuQ1_SjRxaA

  14. #34

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilt
    Now, if you would like to show me a moonkin competing with 13k on Jarax, i would gladly start letting everyone know I am terrible and there are moonkins out there that can pull those numbers.
    Your statement means nothing. You can't compare DPS to a mage on that fight.

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans ElAmigo's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    It's not my oppinion. Rather, its the conclution from countless hours of theorycrafting, reading articles, testing and comparing. If i can beat my mages and warlocks, then so can you
    sorry but i want to see the logs on this before i believe that you are beating your mages and locks (well locks sounds more believeable, but mages just no way unless they fucking blow)
    "Didn't we have some fun...though? Remember when the platform was sliding into the fire pit and I said 'Goodbye' and you were like 'No way' and then I was all 'We pretended we were going to murder you'......that was great"

  16. #36
    Stood in the Fire Eilt's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    I figured it would be discounted, but it was just an example and the fight we were on currently. Lets see the excuses roll in for Twins, sorted by damage done:

    Rogue - 16k
    Arcane Mage - 15.2k
    Feral Druid - 14.8k
    DK - 14.8k
    Rogue - 14.8k
    Warrior - 14.2k
    DK - 14.1k
    Arcane mage - 13.5k
    Feral Druid - 13.1k
    Moonkin - 13k

  17. #37
    BOOMkin Qieth's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    I am not going into a full fletched DPS discussion across all threads again as we had a few months ago. That stuff was stupid, and unconstructive. I will, however, respond to this, and then hopefully leave it at that.

    Linking massively gimmicked fights is NOT the way to make an argument.

    Rogue: Splash damage
    Feral: Splash damage (minor)
    Warrior: Splash damage
    DK: MAJOR splash damage
    Moonkin: No splash damage.

    How about you go and pick a fight where the classes can actually be on par with each other. Picking Jaraxxus and going "I know i don't mention that mages steal a buff that makes them much stronger, but look at the DPS they are doing!", or going for Twins without taking into account that most classes splash on to more than one target, simply dilutes your argument and your credibility. Its sort of like saying "My DPS on Gunship is terrible", forgetting to mention that you spend 90% of the time in a cannon.

    If you want to compare damage, then at LEAST pick a fight where people are playing under the same circumstances. Heck, Marrowgar is better than any TOTGC fight, even with the movement and the risk of impalement. Lady Deathwhisper, if you are stuck on the boss full time with a few other DPS, is an excellent fight to measure damage. With little movement, and full out nuke, there is only Death and Decay and a bit of movement on ghosts to actually make a difference. A clear example of that is this: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=1823&e=2078.

    Top four DPS'ers were on Deathwhisper full time - including myself. And i even had a minute or so without eclipse, due to the cursing snagging my starfire just as i procced lunar eclipse, and seriously bad luck. We can only really compare ourselves on that fight to other players constantly on the boss, but it serves to make a point.

    Picking heavely gimmicked fights to prove your point does not - in fact - prove your point at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElAmigo
    sorry but i want to see the logs on this before i believe that you are beating your mages and locks (well locks sounds more believeable, but mages just no way unless they fucking blow)
    I am not claiming that i am far ahead of our mages. I am not even claiming that i beat them everytime. But the notion that moonkin damage sucks has been corroded into the brains of the general public for so long, that good players, well skilled, and equally geared to their guild doing similar damage as the rest of the raid group, is dismissed with the notion of "Your guild must suck". In my case, it doesn't. We've beat everything except for Lana'Thel, which speaks of a certain level of commitment and skill, even if 1600 guilds did our progression faster than us (speaking mainly of stuff like Algalon or Anub heroic here).

    I am *very* confident in my ability as a moonkin, and moonkins ability in general to perform well in raids, simply because of the following observations: My damage is equal to my fellow raiders on average across several different fights, and my guild does what my guild set out to do. That must mean that im doing what im supposed to do, and that my guild at least holds the gear and competence to produce progress.

    You will usually have some class (often DKs, rogues and mages), or even just one or two players, who shoot ahead from the rest of the guild on some fights. I dont claim to be one of them. If i dont place in the top three, i will at least be competing alongside with everybody else, doing more or less the same overall damage and DPS. Even on fights where i suck badly, maybe 500 DPS behind the general group, the actual difference is minute.

    The last time we had this massive argument, it all boiled down to a few nay-sayers nitpicking over small percentages. I would not like to have this all over again. We are in a good position as we are now, and we have a buff incoming that will make things even better. Anyone who disagree are welcome to post logs - especially across many fights on different raid nights, so we can really dig deep - and i will be happy to brainstorm and try to find out what the problem is.
    ~ Armory - Youtube ~
    No longer the King of Moonkins, but perhaps the Prince of Shamans?

  18. #38

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Thanks Qieth, that was the well rounded response I was looking for. I have not played boomkin in quite some time, but I know what I was capable of and with the new gear what I will be capable of. All of the dps now are evening out and that is whats important, you still have your high dps classes taking the cake when they can but they arent eating it all at once, we still sneak in and get a couple slices to show we can compete.

  19. #39

    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    I want to see the armory of this person. No way do they have 4pc t10 already.

    I smell a troll.

  20. #40
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Re: Moonkin T10 4 piece bonus

    Quote Originally Posted by Qieth
    I am not going into a full fletched DPS discussion across all threads again as we had a few months ago. That stuff was stupid, and unconstructive. I will, however, respond to this, and then hopefully leave it at that.

    Linking massively gimmicked fights is NOT the way to make an argument.

    Rogue: Splash damage
    Feral: Splash damage (minor)
    Warrior: Splash damage
    DK: MAJOR splash damage
    Moonkin: No splash damage.

    How about you go and pick a fight where the classes can actually be on par with each other. Picking Jaraxxus and going "I know i don't mention that mages steal a buff that makes them much stronger, but look at the DPS they are doing!", or going for Twins without taking into account that most classes splash on to more than one target, simply dilutes your argument and your credibility. Its sort of like saying "My DPS on Gunship is terrible", forgetting to mention that you spend 90% of the time in a cannon.

    If you want to compare damage, then at LEAST pick a fight where people are playing under the same circumstances. Heck, Marrowgar is better than any TOTGC fight, even with the movement and the risk of impalement. Lady Deathwhisper, if you are stuck on the boss full time with a few other DPS, is an excellent fight to measure damage. With little movement, and full out nuke, there is only Death and Decay and a bit of movement on ghosts to actually make a difference. A clear example of that is this: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/l...?s=1823&e=2078.

    Top four DPS'ers were on Deathwhisper full time - including myself. And i even had a minute or so without eclipse, due to the cursing snagging my starfire just as i procced lunar eclipse, and seriously bad luck. We can only really compare ourselves on that fight to other players constantly on the boss, but it serves to make a point.

    Picking heavely gimmicked fights to prove your point does not - in fact - prove your point at all.
    I am not claiming that i am far ahead of our mages. I am not even claiming that i beat them everytime. But the notion that moonkin damage sucks has been corroded into the brains of the general public for so long, that good players, well skilled, and equally geared to their guild doing similar damage as the rest of the raid group, is dismissed with the notion of "Your guild must suck". In my case, it doesn't. We've beat everything except for Lana'Thel, which speaks of a certain level of commitment and skill, even if 1600 guilds did our progression faster than us (speaking mainly of stuff like Algalon or Anub heroic here).

    I am *very* confident in my ability as a moonkin, and moonkins ability in general to perform well in raids, simply because of the following observations: My damage is equal to my fellow raiders on average across several different fights, and my guild does what my guild set out to do. That must mean that im doing what im supposed to do, and that my guild at least holds the gear and competence to produce progress.

    You will usually have some class (often DKs, rogues and mages), or even just one or two players, who shoot ahead from the rest of the guild on some fights. I dont claim to be one of them. If i dont place in the top three, i will at least be competing alongside with everybody else, doing more or less the same overall damage and DPS. Even on fights where i suck badly, maybe 500 DPS behind the general group, the actual difference is minute.

    The last time we had this massive argument, it all boiled down to a few nay-sayers nitpicking over small percentages. I would not like to have this all over again. We are in a good position as we are now, and we have a buff incoming that will make things even better. Anyone who disagree are welcome to post logs - especially across many fights on different raid nights, so we can really dig deep - and i will be happy to brainstorm and try to find out what the problem is.
    Qieth,

    You know I respect your opinion and frequent your blog, however I'm still going to have to respectively disagree with you, and I know you don't like me ending it with "your mages must not be good if you're close to them", but, well, it's true.

    I'm in a top 50 world guild. The people I play with are very damn good at their class. They wouldn't be in the guild if they weren't. I'd like to think I'm pretty damn good at being a balance druid or I wouldn't be their raiding balance druid. You compare Deathwhisper as a good comparison. It's not. I'm one of the few who has the luxury to stand and nuke Deathwhisper the entire time. And even so, I can't stay on of the meters. Can I stay on top of mages? Sure, they're sheeping. And how many "stand and nuke" fights are there really? We can't say "We're good in a stand and nuke fight', when there really only has been one in Wrath (Patchwerk). We need to be good OVERALL. We can't call EVERY fight besides "stand and nuke" a gimmick. We need to be competitive in all realms. Not just a Patchwerk knock off.

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