Why doesn't Immolate crit?

[zoso88]

Been thinking sbout this for a while now. Blizz have stated, can't remember when (pretty recently though), that they thought Destro was a bit behind and are looking at buffing it slightly. Surely a very simple and easy way for them to buff the spec would be to allow Immolate to crit. Although the DPS increase wouldn't be massive it would be an increase non-the-less (napkin math to follow...)

For example if your Immolate currently ticks for 2k, and Blizz implemented a talent for it to crit for 100% damage, you'd be looking at, assuming every tick crit, a 666.66 (very fitting number!) dps increase.

- 5 ticks at 4k = (5 x 4) - (5 x 2) = 10k
- Immolate's length in seconds = 15
= 666.66 dps

Obviously these are rough numbers and is assuming every tick crits, which would never happen, but its a dps increase non-the-less and it would also benefit Demo spec, as long as the talent was reachable by both specs, plus as a bonus it wouldn't really have an effect on PVP! Any thoughts on this?

[Nangz]

because of the potential player desired implications for conflag would be probably disregarded

if it ticks 2 times as hard does that mean conflag can't crit?

or can it "double" crit

[Rollatorklm]

Great idea in my oppinion, shamans got it, and no one is crying about the crits in pvp from them,
and would rock in pve instead of seeing those lame 1k conflag dot crits all the time
And for the above poster, blizz could just make it base immolate damage for conflag after spellpower is calculated so that the crits on immolate doesnt affect conflag damage

[Phantasos333]

While I personally think it would be a great dps boost for Demo and Destro, I thinkt he reason it doesn't happen is because the design Conflag around/with a critting dot, would be to difficult or to OP on conflags end. Which it very well end up being. Conflag hitting to hard got us in a word of trouble to begin with as far as PVP burst.

If they could make Conflag ignore the crits of Immolate's DOT then that might be something worth looking at.

[zoso88]

I can understand that the crits affecting Conflag would kick up a shit storm (I do miss the 25k+ days tho ) as 'can't be true' stated the amount of damage Conflag does is based on how much total damage, ignoring initial front-end damage, your Immolate will do. So even if Immolate could crit this won't affect conflag, unless Blizz changes it to make Conflag assume your Immolate would crit at least once, which I doubt they would do.

[Torinogut]

I think this is a good idea.

I think you guys are creating a problem that wouldn't exist with the maybe improved damage on conflag. Right now conflag checks if the immolate is present and what kind of damage value it is at. I don't see how the ticks critting would change any of that, and if it did, the programmers could just tell it not to.

[Deleted]

I agree that the conflag problem is a non-issue - unless there is a serious issue in design terms with the way conflag's damage is calculated, but it seems unlikely.

The only things I can think of are:

a) this could unbalance set bonuses/glyph of immolate
b) the ramifications of altering the mechanic of a dot are quite hard to predict, compared to more direct spells

obviously neither of these is a serious barrier to the change per se, but would probably require more work and testing than a minor patch allows for.

[harky]

You know... I have no clue. I've thought for a long time that Conflag should be changed to refresh Immolate by default. Then make Immolate crit. Make the Destro base glyphs Immolate/Incinerate/LT instead of Conflag. Then change the Conflag glyph to, "Your Conflagrate now deals its damage to all targets within 15 yards of the initial target." Oh well. I miss Destro. :P

[Deleted]

I'm wondering if it's just that, at every point where a significant enough patch to allow for such a change has appearred, there wasn't call for a big destro buff. The OP made me curious, so I've had a bit of a hunt around, but I've found nothing on the subject, not even other forum posts.

[gherkin]

It's a whole kit problem. They don't like how Conflagrate works, period. What we have now is simply the bastard child of compromise and failure.

If Immolate could crit, the tooltip for Conflagrate would be insane to read. "Consumes/Causes an Immolate or Shadowflame effect on the enemy target to instantly deal damage equal to 60% of your Immolate or Shadowflame, and causes an additional 20% damage over 6 sec. This spell deals damage based on non-critical hit Immolate or Shadowflame periodic damage but can critical strike itself."

[Gihelle]

It's a whole kit problem. They don't like how Conflagrate works, period. What we have now is simply the bastard child of compromise and failure.

If Immolate could crit, the tooltip for Conflagrate would be insane to read. "Consumes/Causes an Immolate or Shadowflame effect on the enemy target to instantly deal damage equal to 60% of your Immolate or Shadowflame, and causes an additional 20% damage over 6 sec. This spell deals damage based on non-critical hit Immolate or Shadowflame periodic damage but can critical strike itself."

I present you, Shadowform:

"Assume a Shadowform, increasing your Shadow damage by 15%, reducing all damage done to you by 15% and threat generated by 30%. However, you may not cast Holy spells while in this form except Cure Disease and Abolish Disease. Grants the periodic damage from your Shadow Word: Pain, Devouring Plague, and Vampiric Touch spells the ability to critically hit for 100% increased damage and grants Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch the ability to benefit from haste."

And the buff from it:
"Shadow damage you deal increased by 15%. All damage you take reduced by 15% and threat generated is reduced by 30%. You may not cast Holy spells except Cure Disease and Abolish Disease. Grants the periodic damage from your Shadow Word: Pain, Devouring Plague, and Vampiric Touch spells the ability to critically hit for 100% increased damage and grants Devouring Plague and Vampiric Touch the ability to benefit from haste."

[gherkin]

Yep! But each one of those, alone, makes sense. It's just big and clunky.
How do you explain, in 8 languages, that Conflagrate consumes an Immolate or Shadowflame non-crit tick without using forum slang?
Not saying its worse than Shadowform, but that its along the same lines.

[kneeo]

It doesn't crit because that would be a good idea.

[davesmack]

It would break PvP.

[Baabinator]

Great idea in my oppinion, shamans got it, and no one is crying about the crits in pvp from them,
and would rock in pve instead of seeing those lame 1k conflag dot crits all the time
And for the above poster, blizz could just make it base immolate damage for conflag after spellpower is calculated so that the crits on immolate doesnt affect conflag damage

Shamans only have 1 DoT.

Warlocks have around 4~8 depending on spec.

[davesmack]

Shamans only have 1 DoT.

Warlocks have around 4~8 depending on spec.

Lol no... we have 3 tops.


The reason is it would break pvp. CB > Conflag in combination with periodic conflag crits and immolate periodic crits would completely undo everything they did by making a portion of conflagrate periodic.

[Nikoll]

Lol no... we have 3 tops.


The reason is it would break pvp. CB > Conflag in combination with periodic conflag crits and immolate periodic crits would completely undo everything they did by making a portion of conflagrate periodic.

affliction has 4 not counting debuffs to watch (haunt, CoA, UA, Corruption)

[davesmack]

affliction has 4 not counting debuffs to watch (haunt, CoA, UA, Corruption)

Haunt isn't a dot chief.